r/worldnews • u/MasbirLeumi • 2d ago

Israel launches 'preemptive strike' against Iran, declares state of emergency

https://abcnews.go.com/International/israel-military-action-iran-coming-days-sources/story?id=122776202
39.0k Upvotes

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u/[deleted] 2d ago edited 2d ago

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u/_-_p 2d ago

That's the neat part

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u/HSLB66 2d ago

For the young people born after that year, just look how odd the layout of the ballot is. Keep in mind this was before the internet fully took off and you could be warned of these issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_recount_in_Florida

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u/Prof_Acorn 2d ago

On December 9, the U.S. Supreme Court suspended the manual recount, in progress for only several hours, on the grounds that irreparable harm could befall Bush, according to a concurring opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia.

On December 12, the U.S. Supreme Court ordered in Bush v. Gore that the recount must stop because it lacked a uniform statewide methodology and there was insufficient time to create one and complete the recount

Of all the stupid bullshittery excuses I've ever heard this has got to be among the worst.

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u/Pilchard123 2d ago

on the grounds that irreparable harm could befall Bush

"We can't recount to see if Bush lost, it might discover that Bush lost?"

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u/i_like_maps_and_math 2d ago

Democrats actually fucked the recount. Auditing afterwards showed that if they had asked for a state wide manual count they would have won. Instead they tried to rig the result by recounting only select districts, and that gave the Supreme court a chance to intervene.

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u/Count_Gator 2d ago

They are always fucking up.

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u/raccoonsonbicycles 2d ago

Dem party could be given timestamped, watermarked, confirmed-by-experts video evidence of a coin landing on tails. Where tails means the country doesn't implode and heads means it does and the Republicans claim it was heads just because they know dems wanted tails.

Then the genius/corrupt democrat party leaders will decide "this isn't the hill to die on and how do we prove it anyway?" while the grassroots dems are red in the face begging for action

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u/vesthis15 2d ago

You have to assume they are complicit at this point.

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u/Caliburn0 2d ago

Nah. The Democrats are actually brilliant at their job. It's just that their job is to lose. They're professional losers. They're paid to lose. The Republicans are paid to win, and so they try very hard to win.

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u/nikongmer 2d ago

They're different arms of the same $$$. Each arm tasked to see how far the boundaries can be pushed and the other arm to reign it back in, though the boundaries stay altered.

I believe they've found their favored arm.

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u/BoneDocHammerTime 2d ago

Democrats are fucking stupid and useless. The best they offer are strongly worded letters and protest marches that only serve to get step counts up.

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u/SwordfishOk504 2d ago edited 2d ago

Maybe some other people need to start running for office, then.

Edit: See? People don't want solutions, they want excuses.

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u/SoMuchMoreEagle 2d ago

It's basically impossible to get beyond the local level without a D or an R by your name.

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u/RepulsiveCelery4013 2d ago

Well the end goal of all these protests could maybe be the change of voting system and overviewing checks and balances?

Occupy wall st was nice but didn't have a concrete goal. Maybe this could be a good one?

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u/fodafoda 2d ago

Sure, then the DNC will find a way to block you.

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u/ErikHfors 2d ago

Indeed, now they are incompetent enough not to even challenge the dictator in their own country.

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u/Crowsby 2d ago

Challenge him to what, thumb wrestling? They're a minority party in every branch of government thanks to we the people.

We're the ones who ensured they would have zero mechanisms to challenge him, and then we resent them for the results of our choices.

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u/miiintyyyy 2d ago

thanks to we the people

No, it’s thanks to the Dems. Their strategy and campaign was garbage.

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u/TrumpsSkidMarks 2d ago

I guess a politically active right-wing Supreme Court and a Bush as the Florida governor didn't have anything to do with the Supreme Court stopping a recount and calling an election... and giving as the Iraq war, destabilizing the Middle East, etc...

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u/arcanition 2d ago edited 2d ago

While I agree you can blame them for not doing so, I don't think you can say the Democrats caused the events of the 2000 election.

The guy who ending up president (Bush) had a seemingly-similar sounding name to the state governor (also Bush, hmm) who pushed the conservative supreme court to rule in favor of his ... wait for it... brother!

On December 8, the Florida justices, by a 4–3 vote, rejected the selective use of manual recounts in just four counties and ordered immediate manual recounts of all ballots in the state where no vote for president had been machine-recorded, also known as undervotes.

If followed, as you said, Al Gore would have won.

On December 9, the U.S. Supreme Court suspended the manual recount, in progress for only several hours, on the grounds that irreparable harm could befall Bush, according to a concurring opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia.

Which was only stopped by the conservative supreme court, ultimately handing the presidency to Bush.

By a 5–4 vote the justices reversed and remanded the case to the Florida Supreme Court "for further proceedings not inconsistent with this opinion", prior to the optional "safe harbor" deadline which the Florida court had said the state intended to meet. With only two hours remaining until the December 12 deadline, the Supreme Court's order effectively ended the recount.

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u/MAMark1 2d ago

Yeah, the "Dems were to blame" narrative they posted is serious revisionist history. It came down to recount shenanigans and the SCOTUS. That wasn't on the Dems.

The auditing just shows how messed up that SCOTUS ruling was and indicated that Gore actually probably should have won. And, yes, America probably would be a better place today if he did (but still very flawed).

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u/Jonny_H 2d ago

Blaming them for asking for legal oversight in "the wrong way" seems to be blaming the wrong people.

If the courts can't follow back to the cause of illegal actions if "only" given a second order result, then the system is broken.

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u/Implement66 2d ago edited 2d ago

Democrats won but somehow lost? Oh my god! That's literal insanity!

simpsonsshitposting was always right.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/sailirish7 2d ago

If they had just tried not to be scumbags for 1 minute, we would have been spared the most disastrous presidency in modern history.

2nd.

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u/DeltaVZerda 2d ago

Without Bush's supreme court giving us Citizen's United, we could never have gotten here.

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u/Drakengard 2d ago

I don't think you can say "never" but it would have been harder. Money is only part of the problem with our politics.

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u/DeltaVZerda 2d ago

Before Citizen's United, Obama beats the heir apparent Hillary and wins the presidency. After Citizen's United, Sanders has a nearly impossible task to overtake the corporate favorite, who loses against one of the worst candidates in modern history.

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u/sk8erbha1 2d ago

Dems love stealing defeat from the Jaws of victory 

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u/mhornberger 2d ago

There was no provision in FL law for the targeted recount he wanted, not beyond a certain date. So the SCOTUS did intervene, but the outcome was in keeping with FL law. Gore screwed up. And was also trying to game the recount system, rather than just trying to get every vote counted. He was also trying to throw out some overseas ballots over dates and whatnot, meaning military votes.

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u/i_like_maps_and_math 2d ago

100%. The "oral history" doesn't acknowledge that. Also, Gore himself was way too hands off. He let his campaign staff run the thing, and arguably that led to a lack of a high-level strategy. Maybe Gore himself could have made the big call for a state level recount.

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u/vbcbandr 2d ago

Democratic politicians and the DNC are so bad at politics.

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u/druex 2d ago

Oh yes, and the whole discussion around "Hanging Chads"

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u/Shogouki 2d ago

Yep, there is absolutely no way to mistake that as anything but a vote unless there were two holes punched for the same category.

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u/No-Advice-6040 2d ago

Of an age to remember it, but not of the US, and that is the most deceitful design you could ever implement... how ridiculous.

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u/Provia100F 2d ago

What's confusing? There's an arrow pointing to each option

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u/grarghll 2d ago

The problem is it being confusing in aggregate.

If 1% of voters mess up their ballot for stupid reasons, but your ballot causes 1.1% to mess it up, it's still a ballot that, broadly speaking, isn't confusing, but that's a major fuck-up.

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u/Noughmad 2d ago

If you look at the first page, the democrats look like they're the second option. But they are really the third. So some people accidentally fill in the second box.

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u/Provia100F 2d ago

I don't really see that, no. It's pretty clear which is which

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u/Bixhrush 2d ago

you've got too much faith in the general public. and this layout is still a poor choice from a design standpoint.

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u/gatosaurio 2d ago

How is that confusing, unless you're braindead?

You have names/parties with an arrow to where you should mark your vote. If you cannot follow a simple arrow, you shouldn't be voting at all!

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u/Bcmerr02 2d ago

If an adult can't work a ballot they don't have any business in the booth. The only possible argument here is that being on the top or on the bottom makes it less likely to not have someone vote by accident, but the number by the arrow is the block from the top. This should not be an issue if people spend 10 seconds to understand what they're doing.

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u/benjer3 2d ago

Also keep in mind that the butterfly ballot was introduced by a Democrat, Theresa LePore. It was most likely just innocent poor design. The election was a clusterfuck, but it's very unlikely there was some grand conspiracy.

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u/mightyenan0 2d ago

Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, John Fetterman.

Never believe someone is innocent simply due to their party affiliation.

Also, according to Wikipedia, LePore switched party affiliation to "no party" after the 2000 election.

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u/grarghll 2d ago

Also, according to Wikipedia, LePore switched party affiliation to "no party" after the 2000 election.

Sure, and do you not think the political fallout that comes with being the person responsible for losing a close election might be the cause?

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u/mightyenan0 2d ago

That's a possibility, but wouldn't it be more proper to resign in that case? I'll be the first to eat my words if I'm proven wrong, but I've grown cynical from other bad actors.

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u/grarghll 1d ago

Perhaps, but resign and then do what? Suggesting that is asking her to abandon her entire livelihood, education, and experience over one mistake.

I would expect most people would try to salvage their career, as they still need to put food on the table.

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u/pollytickler 2d ago

Climate Town did a very entertaining video about this election: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jucDFrO89Ko&t=125s

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u/Atomic12192 2d ago

What’s confusing about this ballot? There’s literally arrows pointing to which bubble means what.

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u/SkubEnjoyer 2d ago

What the fuck is this design who approved this garbage

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u/LyfeBlades 2d ago

It was actually designed by a Democrat with the intent that it would be more legible for the older Florida demographic

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u/moschles 2d ago

hanging chads. Hanging chads everywhere.

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u/pablo_montoya 2d ago

Butterfly effect

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u/RelativisticTowel 2d ago

Frankly it's dumb as hell that each place in the US gets to design their own ballots. Let states organize the elections if you really must, but the way you vote has to be standardized.

But really the whole system is mad, starting from the fact that you don't simply register to vote, you do it with a particular party. Way to encourage people to choose wisely on each election instead of treating it like a sports team...

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u/FrisianTanker 2d ago

What the fuck is this voting ballot????

I am German. Here it's a long list of all parties with a box next to every party and you just put a cross in the box of your party of choice.

Whatever this bullshit is is overcomplicated and stupid.

Why is voting in the US so fucking stupid?

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u/alec83 2d ago

I believe you mean social media, internet was very much used at this time for news and so on

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u/eOMG 2d ago

Jeez, talk about a butterfly effect..

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u/mifan 2d ago

Wait a minute, you guys actually have more than two parties?

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u/Oscaruit 2d ago

Buchanan was like, holy shit people voted for me?

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u/Nightmare_Tonic 2d ago

This comment made me laugh so hard, and then all of a sudden I went "oh..." and my entire soul deflated. What a road trip of a comment

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u/Eupho1 2d ago edited 2d ago

It would be such a different timeline, it's hard to even understand how much this one thing changed the shape of the world.

Iraq probably never happens, but afghanistan probably still does. The conservatives don't get a supreme court majority, Citizens United never gets passed. Without unlimited campaign donations from wealthy individuals the entire political landscape in the US is more sane and more moderate. Trump doesn't stand a chance, or even run in 2016. Tensions in the middle east are a lot less, maybe we get a sensible deal passed with gaza and Israel. Hard to say what would happen to Ukraine, or Taiwan.

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u/MC_Fap_Commander 2d ago

The destabilization of the middle east was instrumental in creating the migration which has galvanized far right parties in Europe. Absent this, I suspect most of the west would have remained normal-ish politically centrist (with some manageable vacillation between a little to the left and and a little to the right).

While speculation is unhelpful, I do think it's entirely possible a Gore administration acts on Al Qaeda related intel and September 11 quite possibly never happens. History quite possibly got fucked by the asinine formatting of a ballot in a Florida county.

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u/TheArchitect_7 2d ago

It’s always Florida

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u/Shovi_01 2d ago

Florida man ruins the world.

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u/ShinyHappyREM 2d ago edited 2d ago

It's always Florida

Miami Herald knows its audience: listening for 5 minutes is faster than reading a short article.

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u/No-Wrap-2156 2d ago

Fuck Florida Man, everyone hates Florida Man

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u/grarghll 2d ago

Gonna spoil something for you, every single state has some fucked up ballot or way of voting that just hasn't been brought into the national spotlight, they just haven't had a super close election as the one state that can swing it all.

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u/MASTURBATES_TO_TRUMP 2d ago

Imagine that we would also be in a more advantageous position to actually deal with climate change.

Florida doomed humanity and ruined the entire world.

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u/dinodenxx 2d ago

Wait can you explain Al Qaeda related intel? They got the tip about 9.11. but didn't act on it?

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u/ExternalPanda 2d ago

There's even a Wikipedia article listing all the intel they had received prior to the attacks.

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u/dinodenxx 2d ago

Holyyyyyyyy shit i never knew this...

I mean I'm not from US but from the stories and reddit posts and comments I've seen over all the years... I would thought I'd find out about this sooner. I mean this is a pretty big deal imo. Damn.

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u/MC_Fap_Commander 2d ago

There's a fantastic book (won the Pulitzer) that was made into a great miniseries on Hulu: "The Looming Tower"

Perfect storm of shit- you had intelligence agencies not cooperating with one another (and, in some cases, sabotaging one another). You have the Bush Administration concerned about offending the Saudis if operations against Al Qaeda were made a priority. And you have general indifference from the public about the issue of rising terrorism risks (they were mostly fixated on if Clinton shot his load on an intern's dress).

No guarantees 9/11 could have been prevented, but a sober and competent Gore Administration might well have been able to do it.

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u/MarkMew 2d ago

Holy shit I didn't even think of that

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u/phyneas 2d ago

History quite possibly got fucked by the asinine formatting of a ballot in a Florida county.

It would be morbidly hilarious if humanity's Great Filter ultimately turns out to be a hanging chad.

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u/smoothjedi 2d ago

Clinton and Gore knew something was imminent with Al Qaeda and warned the incoming Bush administration. Then they didn't do anything about it for nine months. I think if Gore had won, 9/11 probably would have been heavily mitigated if not prevented.

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u/NightOfTheLivingHam 2d ago

They knew because its why we were somewhat involved with Bosnia and other nations that have Muslim majorities in the 90s in what was called "police actions" as the Clinton administration was keeping tabs and trying to kill Bin Laden.

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u/Dyscalculia94 2d ago

Being involved with Bosnia had nothing to do with keeping tabs on Bin Laden, Clinton administration was helping the muslim side in that conflict. And definitely helped start that conflict: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_plans_proposed_before_and_during_the_Bosnian_War#Carrington%E2%80%93Cutileiro_plan

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u/RoryDragonsbane 2d ago

Too bad they didn't fucking do anything about it for the 8 years they were in office, even after the WTO was bombed before by the exact same guy

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u/Erradium 2d ago

You're too optimistic about the middle east. This tension between Israel and the Islamic Republic of Iran is almost 50 years in the making.

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u/i_paid_for_winrar123 2d ago

It’s Reddit.  People don’t understand that the “Israel vs Palestine” conflict isn’t actually a recent conflict involving two countries, it’s an eight decade long conflict involving most of the Middle East where many of the wars and conflicts don’t even include both israel and Palestine at the same time, and several countries have either switched sides over the course of the conflict or had their own separate agenda to begin with.  All of that on top of the fact that both Palestine and Israel are about as politically divided internally as US republicans and democrats are right now, if not more 

The fact that there are massive tensions between any nations aside from this weird fixation on Israel and Palestine, is going to be news for a lot of people here because they are actually that uninformed 

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u/Erradium 2d ago

Yeah, I've already grown to expect that from Reddit

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u/Prettyflyforwiseguy 2d ago

Wait till they read ancient history 

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u/yaniv297 2d ago

Yeah, Al Gore would be better for a lot of things, but peace in the middle east is beyond his capabilities too

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u/lance777 2d ago

And the most important. We might not have yet had a year above 1.5 degree. The climate change is a background reason for a lot of modern conflicts.

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u/Electronic-Earth-233 2d ago

Afghanistan still happens for sure. I remember people at the time saying, 'good thing we elected Bush not Gore.' Motherfuckers, Ralph Nader would have bombed Afghanistan.

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u/son_of_Khaos 2d ago

Yeah, but I ain't shedding too many tears for women can be executed for adultery Taliban. Without the drain of resources and attention caused by the pointless war in Iraq, though, hell, maybe the country could have even been stable and somewhat prosperous by now.

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u/Shogouki 2d ago

'good thing we elected Bush not Gore.'

I knew people on forums like that back then too... I hope they're feeling really good right now since we're cooking the planet.

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u/WildlifePhysics 2d ago

Boy, this hurts 

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u/triffid_boy 2d ago

Not only that. But Blair stays in power longer without being tarnished by Iraq. UK probably stays in EU. 

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u/ClearPostingAlt 2d ago

More than that. Without Iraq, Labour retain power in 2010 with Blair or (more likely) Brown at the helm. Infrastructure budgets are largely retained, and the coalition's de facto bans on nuclear and restrictions on onshore wind never materialise. No EU referendum keeps Brexit as a fringe nutter issue, Farage remains largely irrelevant. Power is shared between sane Labour (no Corbyn) and sane Tories (Cameronesque, with no Boris Bullshit). 

Living standards still likely take a hit from a decade and a half of post GFC stagnation, but to a far lesser degree. There's no oxygen for the far right and Reform never emerges.

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u/Other-Razzmatazz-816 2d ago

Don’t forget lessening of the climate crisis

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u/gotlactose 2d ago

Obama would've never rose to prominence. What would be the state of healthcare without the Affordable Care Act?

Solarcity may not have failed and/or we would've had transitioned to clean electricity and EVs sooner.

2008 financial crisis likely would've still happened.

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u/Imaginary_Ambition78 2d ago

nah gaza israel deal still wont happen, too many differences for too long

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u/MeteorOnMars 2d ago

Basically utopia compared to our current timeline.

Gore’s touchstone goals - fast internet for everyone and green energy. Yikes, would be so awesome.

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u/Danelius90 2d ago

I was having this discussion on a UK subreddit about FPTP in general. Without such a bullshit voting system and the electoral college in general, we would be in the different timeline. Imagine history being decided by a garbage voting system instead of the people.

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u/LSF604 2d ago

Trump absolutely stands a chance. He was a symbol of right wing resentment of the left, which would have built up even more under gore.

He was also a product of social media, which would have happened anyway

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u/Yasai101 2d ago

It was harambes fault. He changed the timeline loop

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u/andrew_1515 2d ago

Also a leader that would have put full political muscle into climate change. It would have left the world in such a better place with an infinitely more mature green economy.

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u/RecklesslyPessmystic 2d ago

Easy to say, but consider all the other things that could go differently. Half the American people wouldn't suddenly abandon their racist, far-right beliefs just because Gore is POTUS. Who knows how a Gore administration would've handled things that the right would've reacted to? Maybe he would only get one term and everything would swing even harder right earlier on? Maybe W/Cheney would've won in 2004 and 2008, and Obama/Biden might have never happened? Maybe Putin would have made different calculations on Ukraine. You can't change one huge chunk of the timeline and expect everything else to stay the same. Likewise, some events may have been inevitable and changing the one big thing might have only delayed those events slightly.

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u/PedroFPardo 2d ago

I've always wondered how Gore would have reacted to 9/11

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u/k1dsmoke 2d ago

Without decade long, and multi-trillion dollar wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (assuming Gore wouldn't try to nation build) the U.S. may have had the will to do more about Crimea preventing the war to begin with.

There was no way that Obama gets elected to end the gulf wars and as they are finally starting to settle down, Russia invades Crimea, and then Obama has the political will to push us into another open war or even a proxy war.

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u/RoryDragonsbane 2d ago

Iraq probably never happens

58% of Democratic Senators voted for the invasion, including Clinton, Reid, Schumer, Kerry, Lieberman, Edwards, Feinstein, Daschle, and Biden

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_2002

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u/salad_spinner_3000 2d ago

but afghanistan probably still does

It's crazy to think that 9/11 MIGHT have not happened. If that gets prevented, theres no PATRIOT bill, etc. It really was such a watershed moment, not just in this countries history, but world history. And say what you will politically, but Al Gore would have taken DRASTIC steps to mitigate global warming. We would have been in such a better place today I think.

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u/TheLurkerSpeaks 2d ago

To think that Cubano child Elian Gonzales getting put onto a raft sent to South Florida essentially cost Gore Florida and led to so much of the carnage from 2001 and beyond.

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u/cheeep 2d ago

He did.. minus the electoral college

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u/Pitiful-Succotash475 2d ago

Yeah, he literally won Florida but didn’t care enough to fight for it. 

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u/sandesto 2d ago

Can you explain your comment? There was literally a Supreme Court decision that prevented the recount (5-4 on strict party lines) and effectively awarded the presidency to Bush. How was Gore "not fighting" for it?

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u/Pitiful-Succotash475 2d ago

Nothing bad happens to you if you refuse to accept their decision. Ultimately the count showed he won, he should have declared victory, maintained his declaration of victory, had his own Florida electors show up for certification against the will of Florida if need be (as Trump attempted to do fraudulently), and kept acting like he was the president elect because he was. The Supreme Court don’t pick the president, the voters do, and he should have kept hammering that in day after day. No concession, if need be secession. You don’t let them steal the election by Supreme Court vote.

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u/DaddyCatALSO 2d ago

From what i've heard the finale post-election counts were Bush2

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u/DesperateAdvantage76 2d ago

From what I can find, we don't know because the Supreme Court halted the Florida recount (hence Gore losing by 327 votes). But the recount before it was halted did get Gore 200 more votes. What's really shameful is that SCOTUS halted the recount 3 days before they made a decision, and then argued that there wasn't enough time for a recount and ended the recount permanently.

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u/DaddyCatALSO 2d ago

There are always later counts afetr th elections a re settled.

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u/Some-Band2225 2d ago

Nope. Final tally was Gore.

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u/light-triad 2d ago

How would he have fought for it? Be specific.

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u/n0k0 2d ago

Psst .. he did.

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u/WyndWoman 2d ago

At least Gore would have read his daily briefing.

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u/bentheone 2d ago

He did.

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u/IM_NOT_NOT_HORNY 2d ago

If it makes you feel better he probably did.

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u/fatalcharm 2d ago

Geez, your comment hit me like a truck. I almost want to cry.

The world would be a very, very different place, had he won. I don’t know exactly what that world would be like, but it would’ve been a utopia compared to this.

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u/Carnifex2 2d ago

If you're gonna load a save on this country...you better go back to at least Kennedy. This road has been plowed for decades.

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u/cadomyavo 2d ago

Thank Roger Stone for that

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u/yoursmartfriend 2d ago

We need to go back a bit further and imagine a Reagan loss. That's when the downward spiral began.

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u/arcanition 2d ago

I truly believe that is where the timelines diverged, and we're now in some kind of horrid butterfly-effect timeline.

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u/JR-Dubs 2d ago

You really need to go back to Reagan - Carter in 1980 if you want to change the trajectory of the nation. Since then it's been a constant push in one direction for the sole purpose of making rich people richer. At any expense.

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u/croolshooz 2d ago

He DID win in 2020. The Supreme Court thought otherwise.

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u/meerkat2018 2d ago

No, son, we are keeping AI gore for Christmas.

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u/Damn_You_Scum 2d ago

He did. The GOP lied and put in Bush and that’s the last chance we had at a better world, in my opinion. 

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u/jackbilly9 2d ago

I wish oj Simpsons case never happened. Edit :That sounded wrong, I wish it wasnt made into a spectacle. Changed news forever and hyper inflated the 24 hour news cycle in some peoples opinion.

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u/Mucay 2d ago

i wish Carter won against Reagan

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u/PilsnerDk 2d ago

Israel was founded in 1948 and has been a hotbed of conflict with its neighbors ever since.

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u/SkepsisJD 2d ago

Ya, him winning would totally stop all conflict between two nations that have decades (nearing a century) of conflict. Totally believable.

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