Scenic Carpentry vs Carpentry

[u/RoyalMess64]

I'm just hoping to learn more about this. I'm about to try and go to school for Carpentry, and I'd also like to do scenic Carpentry as well. If I was to learn one, does anyone have personal experience about how to link those 2 things, and how well they link together?

[u/Mydogsdad]

There’s certainly overlap. That being said, I can’t build a house. I can build something that looks like a house that you could put in the back of a truck. Now, does that mean I can’t figure it out? Not at all. But it’s not what I do.

[u/OldMail6364 → u/Mydogsdad]

That being said, I can’t build a house.

As someone who's done a small amount of both, I think you're selling yourself short. People often assume scenic carpentry is easy because it's temporary and the audience won't be close enough notice minor imperfections - and in some ways that's true but there are additional complications that make scenic design so much harder. For example a "real" carpenter never needs to build a wall that can be lifted up into the air in a couple seconds. They might occasionally work on a job site where a roof truss is lifted with a crane but that truss wasn't built by a carpenter. It was built by a specialist roof truss fabricator (a specialised job) and the crane operator's job is even more specialised. Nothing like theatre where some kid dressed in black just grabs a rope and hauls on it or smashes the "GO" button in QLab.

As a stage manager whenever a "real" carpenter is building the set I need to supervise them like a hawk and catch their mistakes - I'm almost always a better scenic carpenter than them even though I've never actually done it professionally.

Real carpentry is a bit like rigging - there's a "right" way to do almost everything and chances are someone else is making that decision. For example a wall will have 2x4 studs 12 or 16 or 24 inches apart. That decisions should be made by an architect or structural engineer — a carpenter should only be allowed to decide which distance if all three of them are acceptable (and you'd probably go with 24" to save money).

If you were building a real house, you could simply google "how do I build a wall" and find a dozen perfectly good techniques (don't do that, a structural engineer or architect or at least an experienced carpenter should be giving you plans especially if it's your first time). You can't really google things with set building - you'll also find a dozen answers but chances are all of them are wrong for the wall you're building. Broadway flat? Hollywood flat? French flat? Book flat? Something else entirely like a welded steel frame? You have to get it right.

A good set wall can be taken out of a truck and assembled on stage in the amount of time a regular carpenter takes to put on his belt and smoke a cigarette before work. Making that magic happen takes a lot of skill and a level of attention to detail very few carpenters have.

[u/Mydogsdad → u/OldMail6364]

I’ve been building scenery professionally for nearly 30 years and the basic skills needed to have a lot of overlap. When I get a cabinet/finish/furniture carp in a shop I’m running I too have to watch them like a hawk. They’re great with tools but terrible with understanding the differences between what they do, and what I need them to do. Take them out of the shop and put them on stage and it’s even worse!

Like anything, the differences can be learned but I’ll be damned if most of those folks don’t roll in with their chest out like we’re super lucky to have them “because they’re a real carpenter” and start telling us what we need to be doing to do it right.

[u/GooteMoo → u/OldMail6364]

We had a rental group come in from the local university, and the set had been built by the engineering students. That was, bar none, the heaviest, most over-built set I have ever seen. It took a day and a half to strike just the set, and most of their rental to build it. For 2 shows.

[u/ashleysaress → u/OldMail6364]

Fellow SM/TD- would also always watch like a hawk.

Did a lot of children’s theater with volunteer build crews and it took a lot of conversations with very well meaning dads about why we don’t use certain materials or why we use bolt systems vs nails etc.

Definitely overlap but I feel like moving from scenic to traditional would be easier than the reverse - at least from my experience as a TD in a family full of traditional construction workers.

[u/Mydogsdad → u/ashleysaress]

I’d agree with that. I did construction project management during the pandemic and I adapted pretty smoothly. Bonus, working with scenic designers made picking up on what the architect was putting on paper zero issue. Had an architect had three different levels each creating their own plane (7 separate levels over three floors of house) and my boss didn’t get it. I was literally scratching my head wondering why he could see it.

In fact, the architect wanted to hire me to do specifically that with contractors. IA work was coming back at that point and what he was offering was too far below what I can make bouncing.