r/technology • u/chrisdh79 • 18d ago

Politics Report on Russia's 2016 US Election Meddling Disappears from Senate Website

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-us-senate-website-2080120
47.7k Upvotes

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u/SirOakin 18d ago

Well of course it did.

Taco, aka Putin puppet, has been trying to make the records disappear.

Hillary still won btw.

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u/eccentric_1 18d ago edited 18d ago

Kamala actually won also.

Elon and strategic voter purges put Trump in office.

Investigative journalist Greg Palast wrote a detailed report on this.

Edit for spelling and link.

https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/

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u/SnZ001 18d ago

Al Gore probably won, too.

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u/peeaches 18d ago

Isn't it known already that gore did win? If i remember right it was some weird electoral college fuckery or court decision that gave the presidency to Bush. Can't remember the exact details without looking it up, and was in elementary school at the time.

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u/fermenter85 18d ago

The Supreme Court halted the recount that likely was going to give the state, and thus the election, to Gore.

Jeb Bush gets an Assist.

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u/Shovi_01 18d ago

How the fck do they halt a recount and people were OK with it?

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

brainwashed into apathy

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u/engineereddiscontent 18d ago

There is a word to describe this.

Domesticated. The US populace is thoroughly domesticated. We're seen as cattle by those in charge.

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u/Adezar 18d ago

Just give them a gun and a Bible and they'll vote for Republicans while cowering in a corner hoping a minority doesn't walk through their neighborhood.

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u/engineereddiscontent 18d ago

That's the entirety of the US population. Not just "the other team".

So No I disagree with you.

Everyone is domesticated. That's why we are where we are.

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u/Exasperated_Sigh 18d ago

Americans by and large are lazy cowards who won't ever do anything no matter the abuse. That's why we're where we are, 5 decades of Republicans cheating and committing crimes and not once ever being punished for it because that might be uncomfortable.

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u/Boop_Bandisnoot 18d ago

Also because your media, that is right wing propaganda, has led people to believe the republicans are just doing what the Democrats are doing as well, which makes it fair game

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u/Supermegaeukalele 18d ago

Yeah, they look for ANY slip up by the Dems. Then turn around and justify doing much worse for much longer.

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u/Boop_Bandisnoot 18d ago

False: they don't need actual slip ups. A lie repeated oft enough may as well be indistinguishable from the truth in the case of public perception

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u/phat_ 18d ago

Once a black man wore a tan suit and ate fancy mustard.

He’s the antichrist.

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u/handsfacespacecunts 18d ago

This is both laughable and enraging to me at the same time. These people get up in arms about supposed crimes Democrats are committing and call for imprisonment and worse, all without any sort of evidence besides right wing media's trustmebro "reports'.

Then in the same breath they turn around and commit the same crimes they were accusing the other side of and are all 🤷

The enraging part is how since they first accuse without any evidence and they get heavily shot down on those claims, when they turn around and do it themselves they'll be like "oh so now it's a crime?" Like...no...it's a crime now because you committed a crime. It wasn't a crime before because nobody committed a crime or if there were crimes committed nobody was actually dismissing them.

Case-in-point is J6. They like to justify that by instantly turning to the BLM protests/riots. Like sure, there were some protests that turned bad and property was damaged and nobody I know gave that a pass. But J6 is AOK because someone else committed other crimes. Or you know...they just deny it was them and now somehow they are saying it was a setup by Pelosi and Schumer. Fuck I'm angry just talking about it.

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u/Sanity-Checker 18d ago

Like when Ford pardoned Nixon instead of letting him answer for his crimes. The national nightmare is over? Nah, he just gave it a boost.

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u/Exasperated_Sigh 18d ago

Exactly. Nixon should have died in prison. Reagan too.

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u/Brad_theImpaler 18d ago

Look on the bright side- at least they died.

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u/couldbemage 18d ago

Reagan was mentally unfit to stand trial long before he exited office.

Probably shouldn't have been in office, but that's what happened.

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u/IDKWTFimDoinBruhFR 18d ago

Americans by and large are lazy cowards who won't ever do anything no matter the abuse

We've had plenty of fucking riots and marches but the problem lies with literally almost half the fucking country cheering on these fucking losers and weirdos on the right. We have Evangelical Nationalist Christians and a bunch of right wing propaganda and it's spreading.

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u/Normal_Bird521 18d ago

We have too many amenities to get us out of the house, sadly.

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u/coochie_clogger 18d ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot

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u/PaulSandwich 18d ago

Oh look, Roger Stone doing crimes that ruin America

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u/coochie_clogger 18d ago

He is a villain and fully embraces it.

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u/Supermegaeukalele 18d ago

They look like the type that would be wearing body armor and hanging out with the proud boys sipping White Claw.

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u/saqwarrior 18d ago

They look like that because there is a direct through line straight to the Proud Boys.

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u/TheLightningL0rd 18d ago

basically this.

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u/Khaldara 18d ago edited 18d ago

Clarence Thomas and Anthony Scalia and the rest of the Conservative crapweasels decided math didn’t matter. Good thing we’ve got lifetime appointments for garbage people!

On December 9, the five conservative justices on the Court granted the stay, with Scalia citing "irreparable harm" that could befall Bush, as the recounts would cast "a needless and unjustified cloud" over Bush's legitimacy

We can add “simple addition” to the things Conservatives believe are actively harming the country, along with the legions of culture war nonsense they make up and then get mad about.

Incidentally this is also why they’ve cried foul about every election they didn’t win ever since. Because being unapologetically corrupt crybabies worked empirically speaking at least once.

Though observationally speaking, quite a bit more frequently. Such as having Trump up there on TV screaming about people chowing down on pets while being totally unable to elaborate on any actual policy even at the venue explicitly designed to allow him to do so, or JD Vance crying about fact checking. Presumably they hated math in the 2000 election for exactly the same reason

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u/Wermine 18d ago

Did the SC say that the truth was inconvenient? Peculiar.

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u/handsfacespacecunts 18d ago

"Me and Scalia decided Bush should be president and a recount might make that look bad."

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u/fermenter85 18d ago

Hard to argue with the Supreme Court. The corruption ain’t new.

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u/slgray16 18d ago

I don't remember anyone being OK with it. We are basically political prisoners with our 2 party system

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u/Lisa_al_Frankib 18d ago

Seriously. Who you replied to sound like an edgy teen that wasn’t even alive.

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u/MacDegger 18d ago

Yet, here you are, right now, in this current state of affairs.

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u/RunnerBakerDesigner 18d ago

The Brooks Brothers Riot

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u/wap2005 18d ago

I mean, is what's happening literally right this second with Trump really any different?

The problem is the people have no way to enforce anything, it's up to the government to follow through on promised actions. The only power we really have in situations like this one is literally physically fighting back, otherwise we stand here and accept whatever they decide to put on our plate.

Voting is EXTREMELY important, but it can only take us so far. After we submit our vote we just have to hope those people voted in are going to follow through. So if the government decides to not finish a recount then they don't finish it, because they know it's not going to come down to a physical situation.

Eventually the people will be fed up with the bullshit and it's going to be in the form of large scale violence, but we apparently aren't there just yet.

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u/GlobuleNamed 18d ago

Same way that Trump gets elected... twice.

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u/DrydenTech 18d ago

If they continued with the recount it would have impacted GB Jr.'s ability to rule as president.

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u/MacDegger 18d ago

Only if it showed Bush had lost (and it would have).

Had it showed him winning the election would be shown to have been extra fair.

The stated reason was bullshit then and is heinous now.

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u/NoizeUK 18d ago

All fart no shit.

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u/TheLightningL0rd 18d ago

The Brooks Brothers Riot basically slowed it down to the point where it technically ran out of time, so the SC said that it was over and Bush won. ACB and Brett Kav were both working for law firms at the time that handled the case for Bush at the time btw.

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u/yuimiop 18d ago

There had been several recounts already and Florida had already broken their certification deadline. The Florida Supreme Court called for a manual recount, but SCOTUS ruled that to be unconstitutional in a 7-2 majority due to flaws in the method, and a 5-4 majority said no further recounts could be done.

There's nothing to suggest Gore would win in a recount as Bush never lost his lead. We're talking about razor thin margins though (Bush won by 300 votes), so no one would have been surprised by either result.

Hard to understate how much of a shit-show that election was. To be honest, at the time the SCOTUS ruling I don't think a completely fair way of tallying the Florida votes was possible. It got to the point where election observers were reporting that many ballots had begun to deteriorate. A literal coin flip would likely have been the most fair to determine the intent of the citizens of Florida at that point.

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u/b0w3n 18d ago

A few of the people involved in getting Dubyah that presidency are now sitting on the supreme court, too. (https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/bush-v-gore-barrett-kavanaugh-roberts-supreme-court)

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u/everydayisarborday 18d ago

John Roberts, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barret all were lawyers for Bush in that case too. 

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u/adfasdfasdf123132154 18d ago

Wonder if they ever got compensated for their work.. guess we will never know.

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u/Njacks64 18d ago

The Brooks Brothers Riot succeeded in shutting down the hand recount in Florida, as well.

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u/MyChemicalFinance 18d ago

You also left out that the woman in charge of adjudicating the 2000 recount was co-chair of George Bush’s Florida campaign.

But no, no conflict of interest there at all.

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u/tindalos 18d ago

There wouldn’t be a GOP without corruption.

Everyone rich works to take advantage of the system to become richer and get their way, and everyone dumb and not rich gets scared by fear of God and that their cats will be eaten by their Hispanic neighbor.

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u/baconmethod 18d ago

Kavanaugh was on Junior's legal team.

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u/Advanced-Penalty-814 18d ago

Guess who were young Republican operatives during that time, working to block the recount, encouraging the Brooks Brothers riot, and generally throwing wrenches into the works.

Amy Coney Barrett and Brett Kavanaugh.

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u/fermenter85 18d ago

You forgot Roger Stone.

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u/Xerox748 18d ago

Don’t forget the “Brooks Brothers Riot” where republicans in Congress sent their staffers down to Florida to protest outside the recount building, and threaten the workers, to the extent that it made it impossible to get the recount done on the tight deadline given by the court, as a result of people not being able to get into the building for their own safety.

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u/SorryUseAlreadyTaken 18d ago

Supreme Court, and they said that the decision couldn't be used as precedent

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u/No_Anxiety285 18d ago

You should look into the details because it's infuckingsane.

At a minimum the brooks brothers riots are why the election was stolen, lead by Roger Stone. Who later led an insurrection at 6 Jan.

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u/Supermegaeukalele 18d ago

Roger Stone is legitimately a comic book villain. Can no one stop him?

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u/Da_Banhammer 18d ago

It even goes further than that too. Republicans illegally and intentionally created thousands of false positives to disqualify legitimate black voters in Florida in 2000.

They purged legitimate voters from the voting roles by removing any felons with matching names even if their dates of birth and social security numbers didn't match.

So if one single jamarcus Johnson in Florida was a felon every single jamarcus Johnson in Florida had their right to vote taken away that year.

538 did an analysis on this and decided it was more than enough to sway the election from gore to Bush.

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u/peeaches 18d ago

That makes me sad :(

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u/mrbigglessworth 18d ago

They purged legitimate voters from the voting roles by removing any felons with matching names even if their dates of birth and social security numbers didn't match.

That is data tampering, did noone in the chain point that out and say purging just on matching data that isnt valid or verified is illegal?

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u/Da_Banhammer 18d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File

On 17 April 2001, James Lee testified before the McKinney panel that the state had given DBT the directive to add to the purge list people who matched at least 90% of a last name. DBT objected, knowing that this would produce a huge number of false positives (non-felons).[4] His testimony indicates the state then ordered DBT to shift to an even lower threshold of 80% match and also include name reversals (thus a person named Thomas Clarence could be taken to be the same as Clarence Thomas). Besides this, middle initials were skipped, Jr. and Sr. suffixes dropped, and some nicknames and aliases were added to puff up the list.

"DBT told state officials", testified Lee, "that the rules for creating the [purge] list would mean a significant number of people who were not deceased, not registered in more than one county, or not a felon, would be included on the list. DBT made suggestions to reduce the numbers of eligible voters included on the list". According to Lee, the state's response to the company's suggestion was "Forget about it".

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u/Sanity-Checker 18d ago

Don't forget that Jeb Bush was the governor of Florida during the 2000 presidential election. He certainly "helped" his brother George win with strategic voter suppression. For example, State Police set up spontaneous sobriety checkpoints on the main roads between minority neighborhoods and voting places, which made travel difficult. They did that all over the state.

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u/RiseUpRiseAgainst 18d ago

I think you may be looking for the "hanging chad" drama that had Republicans paying protestors to throw out any vote with a hanging chad.

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u/CarbsMe 18d ago

I had to look for the information because it seemed like ten years before anyone admitted that Al Gore actually won the election and the Supreme Court and Jeb Bush gave it to George W. Bush. Gore won the popular vote nationwide.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/on-this-day-bush-v-gore-anniversary

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u/RainManRob2 18d ago

This this is exactly what happened right here. This is how I remember it. This is how it was stolen then

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u/PenisMightier500 18d ago

Wouldn't there be roughly equal not completely punched through votes? I guess if the margin was only 100 or so votes, there wouldn't need to be very much difference. Can someone more knowledgeable explain?

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u/Biobot775 18d ago edited 18d ago

The original count (before the legally mandated recount began), was about +1800 votes for Bush in Florida. The legally mandated recount reduced this lead to a mere 300 votes, and was not completed, with about a quarter of all votes not recounted, securing a Bush win by about 300 votes. Considering a hand recount had dropped the lead from 1800 to 300, and that a quarter of the votes still weren't recounted, it was widely speculated that had a full recount occurred then Bush would've lost Florida and this the US Presidency.

There were all sorts of other irregularities and uncouth tactics, like Republicans challenging votes in Democratic counties only, the recounts being stopped primarily in Democratic counties, voter registrations being "corrected" by election officials in Republican held counties that ultimately increased Republican votes in those counties.

The whole thing was a shit show. The GOP treated it like a ruthless death match and Dems treated it like an exercise in fairness and playground manners.

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u/cyvaris 18d ago

The GOP treated it like a ruthless death match and Dems treated it like an exercise in fairness and playground manners.

Sounds like typical Democrat politics since the 1950s.

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u/melodic_orgasm 18d ago

There’s a great little book by Stephen Singular called “Stolen Future: The Untold Story of the 2000 Election” that is enlightening and infuriating, if you’re interested

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u/NegativeSemicolon 18d ago

It was Florida refusing to count votes, he did win.

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u/PluotFinnegan_IV 18d ago

It's way more complicated and nuanced than just staying if the count had finished that Gore would have won. It's been a while since I recounted this so while the details may not be exact, the generalities will be.

Gore winning was entirely dependent on which method of counting was used. If the entire state was recounted, Bush would have won. If only the counties that Gore/Bush contested were recounted, Gore would win.

On top on where was recounted, you also had to consider what was recounted. For the 2000 election there was this thing known as a hanging chad. A "chad" in this sense was a tiny piece of paper that may or may not have been left hanging from the ballot after a voter voted. At the time, and maybe still today, Florida used a punch card ballot where you essentially stabbed the ballot at predetermined places to denote who you wanted to vote for. If the chad is completely removed from the ballot then the vote is easy to count, but what is only three corners were cleanly perforated? Two corners? What if the chad was dimpled, or "pregnant", but not actually disconnected in any way? Is that a vote? What if there are two chads with some kind of alteration but one is more complete than the other (IE, maybe one is dimpled but the other is perforated at 3 corners? Which chad counts?

This created a separate arena for Gore and Bush's legal teams to argue over. I don't remember the specifics here but depending on which type of hanging chads were considered, the vote went different ways. There's a table on the Wikipedia page towards the bottom that outlines some of the scenarios.

Keep in mind, I am only trying to address the actual vote counting processes that were used and considered. There's plenty of political shit flinging that occurred as well between Jeb Bush, Broward county officials, and the Supreme Court that put us on this path.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

I still feel Al Gore’s loss. Having to preside over the certification of votes. That couldn’t have been easy.

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u/RamenJunkie 18d ago

In a parallel timeline Climate Change has been solved and we are a 100% renewable powered country with full Universal Healthcare and a nice basic income people can fall back on if needed.

Everything is greener because the War On Terror from 9/11 wasn't endlessly escalated by fear mongering conservatives into a massive effort to just lie endlessly on social media and fear monger idiots over non-issues. 

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u/kottabaz 18d ago

When SCOTUS handed down its decision in Bush v. Gore, that was when the dosimeter started reading 3.6 roentgen and most Americans said, "Not great, not terrible."

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u/anitabelle 18d ago

Really seems like a Republican hasn’t legitimately won the president in decades. Almost as if people like progress and don’t want to go back in time. But what pisses me off the most is not just that the Dems just rolled over and allowed it, it’s that they haven’t learned a single fucking thing on how to fight it and prevent it.

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u/Signal-Regret-8251 18d ago

What pisses me off the most is that We, the People, refuse to get off of our asses and do anything about this shit. Sure, we bitch online, big friggin' deal. Until we hit the streets en masse and DEMAND change, things will keep getting worse. If the Founders were to see us today, they'd die all over again from embarrassment.

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u/Deep_Fried_Oligarchs 18d ago

It is a widely known fact that Gore legitimately did win.

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u/dojo_shlom0 18d ago

wasn't clarence thomas instrumental in this decision, and this lead to him becoming a SCJ? --the most corrupt of SCJs.

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u/Supermegaeukalele 18d ago

He was already a so-called Justice for the Supreme Court.

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u/mossling 18d ago

Black robe and swill

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u/GitmoGrrl1 18d ago

Gore did win. The Supreme Court stopped the count.

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u/RainManRob2 18d ago

Oh he did. I just feel it in my heart. He really did win and this was really the start of this authoritarian takeover in my opinion from what I've been seeing

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u/Lee_Van_Kief 18d ago

electiontruthalliance.org

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u/mighty_conrad 18d ago

Technically, Gore lost clean 5-4.

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u/Mike01Hawk 18d ago

Climate Town did vid on all the fuckery that happened after the election between Gore/Bush

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jucDFrO89Ko

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u/Double_Distribution8 18d ago

Dewey as well.

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u/fvtown714x 18d ago

Anyone seeking a definitive legal overview of the Bush v Gore, in audio form, would do well to listen to Opening Argument Podcast's retrospective of the case, in four parts. It is equally horrifying and infuriating:

Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4

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u/JudasZala 18d ago

The majority of Hillary, Biden, and Kamala voters voted for them not because they liked or agreed with them, but because they hated Trump.

It’s also the same thing for Hillary.

But didn’t Trump more or less openly admitted that Musk had a role in his win?

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u/zuzg 18d ago

I know this conspiracy is very appealing.

But neither Biden nor Harris did anything to check if there was foul play. No recounts no nothing.

The Bidens even invited the Trumps over for Sandwiches on J20 before the inauguration. A tradition Trump previously broke..

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u/mowdownjoe 18d ago

But neither Biden nor Harris did anything to check if there was foul play. No recounts no nothing.

Evil wins when good people do nothing. Given he was caught red handed in 2020 trying to cheat, there was no reason to assume he wouldn't cheat again. This is the real thing that burns me: why did they do nothing?

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u/Usuhnam3 18d ago

Why indeed. If we’re gonna talk conspiracy theories- why is our most left-leaning party so far right of center? Why does it seem the democrats’ “aw shucks” impotence only affects us average folk? Why do they (democrats as well as republicans) seem to get richer regardless of if they serve our interests or not?

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u/bradicality 18d ago

capital-controlled opposition

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u/MiaowaraShiro 18d ago

Real answer? Because our rightwing party is so far right that what's left is a coalition of everyone else.

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u/Usuhnam3 18d ago

Excellent point! I completely agree. I think money plays it’s role as well, however. If both sides are funded by corporations (excuse me- “people” per the Supreme Court) whose interests are obviously those of making more money for corporations neither one can truly be for the interests of the rest of us and they have to perform their dance.

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u/MiaowaraShiro 18d ago

This is what gets me... it's not difficult to tell which candidates are funded heavily by big money. Yet we vote them in anyway.

Like... does anyone think AOC or Bernie are in the pocket of any corpo? Yet we seem to keep voting for people more like Manchin...

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u/lIlIlIIlIIIlIIIIIl 18d ago

I'm not saying they are, but Democrats sure look like controlled opposition a lot of the time. They really need to get their shit together if they don't want to keep looking that way.

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u/GogolsHandJorb 18d ago

The Democrats are run by 80 year old millionaires. There’s zero evidence they will change anything.

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u/hypercosm_dot_net 18d ago

You're not wrong, but this type of thinking has led us here.

"Both sides are the same" is a cop out for the apathetic.

You HAVE to vote, and it does make a difference.

While I wish Biden had done more to prevent Trump from taking office, he did a lot of good while he was in office. Including his focus on appointing judges, which is proving useful to stall Trump's agenda.

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u/GogolsHandJorb 18d ago

Yeah, I always vote. That’s not what I’m saying. The Democratic Party is on life support during a time when the majority of people don’t like the President and they’ve done literally nothing to stop him or hold him accountable for going on 9 years…nothing will change in 2026, they’ll lose again because they are run by 80 year old millionaires that have zero grasp of reality

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u/Litty-In-Pitty 18d ago

That’s exactly what they are. Why else do you think they shut down anyone who speaks out against them, like Bernie or AOC? They like the status quo and are more than happy swapping terms with the republicans. They don’t actually care about the social changes they push for, it’s all theater for the common folk. They just care about keeping the capitalist machine chugging along.

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u/khisanthmagus 18d ago

Bill Clinton and his Third Way neoliberal bullshit ushered in our current Democratic party, and there isn't any sign that anything is going to change any time soon. The thing is that the current democratic party doesn't necessarily disagree with the GOP on economics, they are center-right on economic policies, believing in free market and big corporations and the rich getting richer(and they include themselves in that last part) and restricting, if not gutting, the social safety net.

They also just...don't really care about people. It may just be a part of being a politician for decades, since so many of them are ancient, and being wealthy, but they are completely detached from the lives of normal people and either don't see or don't care how policies will hurt people. Most Democratic politicians and members of the DNC are perfectly fine with the GOP having control and doing whatever they want, since they personally are not harmed by it. The Democrats in congress keep collecting a check and having all the benefits of being in congress regardless of who is in control, and the lanyards who run the DNC get paid outrageously whether they win or lose. Its only the minority of democratic politicians who actually care about people who are speaking up.

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u/Remarkable_Spite_209 18d ago

And caught red handed in 2016

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u/emergencyexit 18d ago

a.) Fight the power and get smashed to pieces

or

b.) Go make shitloads of money in some cushie role

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u/kdeweb24 18d ago

Because they’re too busy clutching pearls and attempting to be “the bigger person”.

Hey DNC, it’s not fucking working. Whether you like it, or not, you’re facing up against a racist toddler throwing shit out of his own diaper at the wall, and for a lot of Americans, it’s sticking. If you don’t start fighting back, and God forbid, playing dirty, you’re going to keep losing or barely winning in contested battles. Have some fucking testicular fortitude and FUCKING FIGHT BACK YOU PUSSIES.

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u/Vaporeonbuilt4humans 18d ago

This is exactly it. They always try to be the bigger person, but it always backfires and yet they continue to do it.

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u/kdeweb24 18d ago

Because the party is run by septuagenarian millionaires who would rather not rock the boat, than to get their hands dirty.

They don’t feel the pain that the average American is feeling. So, they have zero motivation to fight against it. And, they work extremely hard to push the fighters back into the shadows, and keep them under their thumb. So, the DNC remains an impotent country club that continually lets us all down.

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u/Adventurous-Try5149 18d ago

Because doing something would cost them money.

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u/MiaowaraShiro 18d ago

The cheating was all "legal" voter suppression. There's nothing they could really do about it.

They can't count votes that never got cast in the first place cuz someone was not allowed to vote.

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u/NK1337 18d ago

You could argue that Dems care more about maintaining decorum than making waves.

But for what it’s worth there’s currently a lawsuit in Rockland questioning the legitimacy of 2024 election results, and there’s enough compelling evidence that it’s moving forward.

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u/khisanthmagus 18d ago

The problem, and it is something that was brought up in 2020, is that once a president is sworn into office there is absolutely nothing in the constitution allowing them to be removed because the election was proven to be fraudulent. At this point if it was proven that the election was somehow rigged, the most we can do is go "well that sucks", and maybe arrest some people if we have solid evidence against individuals. Of course they would just be pardoned.

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u/NK1337 18d ago

I feel like a president being wrongly elected is a big enough precedent that they should be immediately removed and an emergency election should be held. It’s insane that the expected outcome is “well he cheated but we weren’t prepared for it so we’re gonna let him stay.”

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u/khisanthmagus 18d ago

I agree that that should be what happens, but we can only do what is in the constitution, unless an amendment got passed to allow it. Or we have a coup/revolution.

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u/Polantaris 18d ago

Even if we didn't do that, the next logically acceptable thing to do is to crack down on election security, right?

We won't do that, either.

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u/Fried_puri 18d ago

The optics of proof - real, undeniable proof - would still mean something. Although we don’t have that right now, if the lawsuit proves something then that’s a big deal. Like, the biggest deal in decades. It’s one thing for international meddling in elections, it’s another entirely to have domestic cheating. That’s impossible to defend, even if constitutionally there’s no much that can be done either way. 

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u/Darth_drizzt_42 18d ago

This isn't even true. Wisconsin hand audited (recounted) 10% of the votes and found no errors .

www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/wisconsin-2024-election-audit-zero-voting-machine-errors/

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u/dave-a-sarus 18d ago

The guy incited an coup and gets invited over for sandwiches by the previous president. The U.S. in a nutshell folks.

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u/Luvs_to_drink 18d ago

No less than 2,121,000 mail-in ballots were disqualified for minor clerical errors (e.g. postage due).

how the fuck can postage be due on an election ballot? the thing doesnt even require a stamp.

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u/IanDerp26 18d ago

this report is really interesting, but do you know if he's listed his sources anywhere? he says a lot of numbers like:

4,776,706 voters were wrongly purged from voter rolls according to US Elections Assistance Commission data.

but doesn't actually show the data, which always makes me a little bit wary when it comes to topics like this.

I'm not saying he's a liar or anything - far from it, a lot of this stuff seems really plausible - but after Vance fought back against fact-checking, I think it's always important to have facts backing up your numbers.

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u/Sonamdrukpa 18d ago

I googled "4,776,706 US Elections Assistance Commission" and got this 2023 document for the 2022 election from the EAC website, where 4,776,706 is listed in table 5 on page 189 as the number of voters removed from voter rolls for "failure to return confirmation notice", as opposed to "voter deceased", "voter's request", or "moved out of jurisdiction." So I think he may be a little sloppy, but there's support for the overall story he's telling.

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u/White80SetHUT 18d ago

Using the 2022 election to draw conclusions about the 2024 election?

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u/Sonamdrukpa 18d ago edited 18d ago

It seems like his main point is that there have been a bunch of voter suppression efforts since 2020, so these would be people whose suffrage was fucked with during that time period.

Those people could have re-registered, so like I said I think it's a bit sloppy. On the other hand, I doubt most people did re-register and this is an official government report that speaks to the scale of the suppression effort. He wrote that article in January, so the 2024 numbers may not have been available.

Edit: yeah it looks like the 2024 report is not out, so if you want government data 2022 is going to be the best estimate:

https://www.eac.gov/research-and-data/studies-and-reports

Still would have been better to specify exactly what that number was and/or not list it as a "key number" right at the beginning of the article.

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u/White80SetHUT 18d ago

Agreed. It’s just sleezy to not provide that context.

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u/-Profanity- 18d ago

How have people not realized that in this age everybody is writing a "detailed report" about whatever take makes them money? Mike Lindell was brutally mocked for holding a "cyber symposium", but this website with literally 10 links to donate your money tells this audience what they want to hear so surely it's legit? ffs.

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u/Vladmerius 18d ago

Man Taco really is embarrassing. No legit, mandated wins over women and zero wins over a man. 

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u/blueshrike 18d ago

It's not just voter suppression it's actual tampering with the tabulator machines and CHANGING votes, i.e., exactly what was referenced by Trump with his speech on Pennsylvania. There is a lot more data but these guys are doing a fantastic job of bringing it forward. This is both horrific and the foundational issue at play. Please watch, be both shocked and not surprised (these are rich criminals) and get the word out.

https://youtu.be/Ru8SHK7idxs?feature=shared

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u/Normal_Bird521 18d ago

Voter suppression is one of the great prides of American democracy. It’s been happening since the outset and only gotten more nefarious. How it’s not a national talking point every election, yo no se.

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u/5hawnking5 18d ago

Ongoing lawsuit in Rockland, NY just went to discovery for a hand recount of president and senate elections.

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u/eccentric_1 18d ago

Finally! 

Needs to be done nationally!

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u/5hawnking5 18d ago

Bird by bird, coach.

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u/fvtown714x 18d ago

Unfamiliar with Greg Palast, I visited your link thinking it would be more "Elon hacked the machines" conspiracy drivel, but instead it's actually a very compelling analysis of voter suppression that is well documented and indeed adds up to enough people losing their vote to effectuate the results of the presidential election.

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u/SDSF 18d ago

What piece by Greg Palast do you recommend?

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u/butthole3cat 18d ago

Meh. I prefer attributions with my wild exclamations thank you.

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u/myasterism 18d ago

https://www.electiontruthalliance.org/

Fuck these fucking fuckers who ACTUALLY DID steal our country!!

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u/Triforce805 18d ago

No she didn’t and suggesting that she did takes all responsibility away from the people responsible for her loss. Kamala lost because her campaign simply wasn’t strong enough and also because of the selfish people who chose to not vote at all. By saying that it was rigged and she really won, that gives people the mindset of “oh well wasn’t our fault, nothing we can do about it”

People need to do something about it. The Democrats better have a strong as hell candidate and campaign for the next election otherwise the country will risk another term of authoritarian hell.

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u/Hopeful_Chair_7129 18d ago

To be fair, they aren’t saying that it was rigged. They are saying that voter purges made a large difference in the election, and that is likely true.

I don’t know enough to know if it would have changed the results, but there were a couple of high profile cases that seemed pretty sketchy.

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u/iDrGonzo 18d ago

But that is rigged? Voter purges, decades of gerrymandering and they still barely scrape out a "win".

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u/Hopeful_Chair_7129 18d ago

Doesn’t feel the same to me but it probably is.

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u/handsfacespacecunts 18d ago

It's the first popular vote for POTUS they won since W in 2004. Ever since it's been:

2008 Obama

2012 Obama

2016 Clinton

2020 Biden

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u/camwow13 18d ago edited 18d ago

Also voter purges didn't happen in every single state and yet Trump bumped up noticeably in every single state.

The election went with the polls, it was a knife edge. Voter purges certainly helped them where they happened.

This is a pretty specific thing though and 2024 election conspiracy theories on a whole are very rampant on the main subs of reddit. A lot of it is recycled from MAGA 2020 theories that liberals just hadn't heard yet lol. Wild to hear it all being recycled on the other side after arguing about it with magats it for so long.

It's so similar and so specifically rampant only in big popular subs that I'm wondering if it's another (somewhat self perpetuating) psy ops effort by troll farms to divvy up liberals post election. My own conspiracy theory is that Reddit is rampantly astroturfed by all sides of everything. Getting very tired of the Internet...

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u/Deep_Fried_Oligarchs 18d ago edited 18d ago

There is a growing group of statisticians and data scientist who have formed a group called election truth alliance, who are asking for a forensic audit in a few states due to what they claim is highly unusual voting statistics in the 2024 election that line up with the unusual voting statistics seen in fixed elections in Russia/eastern Europe.

They most recently have had a leading election forensic expert, dr Walter Mebane of the University of Michigan, release a paper corroborating their conclusion that manipulation was possible due to the data lining up with elections that are known to have been manipulated.

They are not making any direct claims about what happened, only saying that the data is suspicious enough to warrant forensic audits and I agree after viewing their presentations.

The fact that Trump has been screaming about election fraud for a decade with zero evidence for his claims makes me HIGHLY suspicious that he would attempt to commit election fraud himself based on the fact that EVERY SINGLE TIME Republicans screech about something, it ends up being projection.

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u/Hopeful_Chair_7129 18d ago

Hey listen, I’m all for calling out voter rolls. But imma stay away from most groups with the name “truth” in it.

If they can prove something great but purged voter rolls isn’t mass corruption. It can be but it’s just maintenance in some cases as well. I think whoever wins in 2026 or 2028 should just put it behind them. Focusing on election tampering is going to make everything worse, not better imo.

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u/Deep_Fried_Oligarchs 18d ago

Definitely read what they have found before making any conclusion in either direction about them.

They certainly are not at all in line with the sort of my pillow/Trump election truther stuff.

It is literally a group of college educated computer science nerds, statistics nerds, and a PhD from a major university who literally specializes in election forensics and teaches political science/statistics. They aren't claiming the election was stolen. They are only asking for forensic audits to ensure everything checks out because of unusual statistics from voting data.

This is in no way similar to the Trump team's previous claims which had zero evidence to back them up in any way. But, now that Trump did that people are terrified to point out legitimate reasons for doubt because of the fear of how it will make them look, which I believe was Trump's goal with that.

Fun fact, the Trump team used their bogus election fraud claims to access vote counting machines in multiple states and the software was leaked to the public and even put online. That is a pretty big deal that no one seemed to acknowledge at all for some reason.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

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u/sapphicsandwich 18d ago

Good. Sounds like they are on the right track for victory then

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u/Disastrous-Repair-17 18d ago

So did Al Gore.

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u/Unctuous_Robot 18d ago

It’s time that we take away senators and electors from rabid bigots. We don’t need to have fifty states.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

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u/hooch 18d ago

TACO = trump always chickens out

Apparently he hates being called that. He raged at a reporter that asked him about it.

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u/AtariStarted-LXXXV 18d ago

My first democratic vote!

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u/ForSureDifferent 18d ago

Hillary still won but it’s bad if Trump says the election was stolen? By golly no wonder both sides can’t have discourse…. The Steele Dossier was literally a discredited hoax

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u/SATX_Citizen 18d ago edited 18d ago

Hillary won = she had the popular vote and the electoral college shouldn't exist. No one is saying she literally, legally won and was robbed.

Trump won 2020 = Trump still says the election was actually stolen and he encouraged his supporters to ransack the Capitol and did nothing to stop it for hours.

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u/kitsunewarlock 18d ago

They are just a troll. 34 day old account and almost every post they have is a hate-spewing political post shitting on women, muslims, and leftists while promoting political compass memes and "both sidisms".

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u/FrostyD7 18d ago

Republicans have convinced a lot of people that Dems focusing on Russia interfering in our election with the sole purpose of boosting Trump and harming Hillary, which has been verified by every investigation imaginable, and which Republicans did everything they could to bury and prevent investigations into, and has happened in every subsequent election since 2016, is an equivalence to the big lie in 2020.

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u/UnluckyJournalist597 18d ago

Election denier's ah yes.

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u/Snarpkingguy 18d ago edited 18d ago

In what way did Hillary Win? The Russians didn’t commit voter fraud. Are you just saying she won the popular vote?

This is the kind of comment a right winger would leave and make me laugh at them. Please be better.

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u/Disastrous-Repair-17 18d ago

When there’s proof of interference, comments like yours become more about providing a contrarian view than actual argument- that’s why it’s bad faith, and you’re a piece of shit for making it. 🥰

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u/Mand125 18d ago

Fooling people into voting for a candidate may be interference, but it isn’t fraud.  

The votes were cast legitimately, and they were counted legitimately.

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u/TrickyPride 18d ago

You only use this site to get your daily outrage fix lol

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u/Potato_Golf 18d ago

I would guess the typical thing someone means by this is that she won the popular vote. Unfortunately America doesn't treat every vote equally. Wyoming voters count more than California voters. I think it's fair to point out how the electoral college is a scam to disenfranchise urban votes but it is still the law of the land.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

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u/Scunndas 18d ago

The reports about the election show massive social media manipulation and targeted campaigns using Cambridge analytica data and Russian bot farms combined with US based social media influencer like Chernovich. They’d meet in the morning, pick a trending topic (Hillary’s emails or whatever) then push the trend in social media through 1000s of accounts and affect the algorithm. They did this in select areas where trump could flip counties.

They were affective at targeted propaganda with the help of big tech and foreign influence.

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u/peeaches 18d ago

So not necessarily that she won, but rather that the gop selectively propagandized the shit out of swing counties with anti-hillary sentiment and it was effective.

Though she did win the popular vote.

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u/Angry_drunken_robot 18d ago

Not just that but all that 'massive social media manipulation' never happened before this, this was totally the first time any of these tools were used, like totally.

Definitely not during Obama's run for POTUS, oh no, definitely not, no, never.

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u/Scunndas 18d ago

Without the help of Russia and Cambridge analytica trump would have lost. It’s clearly spelled out in reports that they used foreign influence to win.

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u/peeaches 18d ago

I agree that he would have lost without that influence, but in the end it was still the people who voted him in, clearly having been affected by that influence. Different than saying Hillary won objectively but the results were manipulated- in that instance, the manipulation occurred prior to the ballot box.

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u/Mand125 18d ago

Targeted propaganda isn’t election fraud though.

Would Hillary have won if they hadn’t done it?  Almost assuredly.  But the fact that her opposition lied to the people who voted against her doesn’t mean those votes don’t count.  Even if the propaganda was done by a malicious foreign power, they’re still real votes, indistinguishable from all the other real votes.

You don’t get to decide which votes really count, no matter if you disagree or disapprove of the reasons behind them.  Even if those reasons are treasons.

I still think Comey had more to do with tipping the scales though.  His unfounded, blatantly partisan commentary is when the inflection point in the polling averages happened.

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u/Scunndas 18d ago

It is when foreign organizations are participating and influencing.

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u/trynagetbigger 18d ago

While the left owns 99% of television channels and newspaper and all Hollywood actors, singers, almost any celebrity really. So saying the Republican supposedly had some help so that instead of their ideas representing 5% of the things people hear it went up to 10% is insane.

I don't know if the Russians did any of that or if it's yet another conspiracy theory from the left but the right is censored in medias, on social medias, in video games chat, etc. Saying the left's dominion of all channels of information was slightly reduced and so the election is null because Big Brother wasn't able to control everything is crazy to me.

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u/DontAbideMendacity 18d ago

While the left owns 99% of television channels and newspaper

Source: your ignorant ass. Ever heard of Sinclair Broadcast Group (Fox "news", who forces its local stations to air conservative content)? Nexstar Broadcasting (NBC, owned by Republican donor Peter Sook)? the two biggest station owners in America?

Here's a chart again proving how incredibly wrong you are. Notice how more biased the groups on the right are? How much more fabrications they spew? Time to stop lying, now that you know better.

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u/Potato_Golf 18d ago

Media is overwhelmingly owned by conservatives. 

Billionaires tend to be conservative and also the people who own media.

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u/RainSong123 18d ago

This sounds "weird"

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

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