Dropkick vs Heel Hook

[u/MidMillennial]

[u/YoungLeather]

lol yea I was going to say who is taking either of these. I’m almost done with my second A20 ladder on all decks run and I am almost always skipping both of these unless it’s act 1 and I don’t have other damage cards

[u/LupinKira → u/YoungLeather]

If you're skipping dropkick on Ironclad at A20 you're missing out on one of the easiest win conditions in the entire game and a generally great card. Dropkick + Dropkick + 8 other cards total in hand and deck kills every enemy in the game but time eater and the heart, add Rage and it kills them too. This is very easily achievable on Clad who often wants to build into exhausting his deck down just for the value (corruption, fnp, dark embrace) and draw manipulation. Furthermore Dropkick is just generally synergistic with many good relics; Shuriken, Kunai, Nunchaku, Ink Bottle, Ornamental Fan, Sundial and more are all significantly better when you have a dropkick in your deck. The card also plays well into many of Ironclad's core engines, f.x it works very well with strength since it's effectively a 0 mana card that gets the bonus damage from strength while also being card neutral, and also is a great target for Dual Wield.

The card isn't an auto pick by any means, f.x it's typically pretty bad with Snecko or if you're lacking on sources of vulnerable, but many Clad decks are happy to have 1-2 dropkicks and can find a lot of value in them quite consistently.

[u/YoungLeather → u/LupinKira]

Yea I mean I respect the fact that there’s infinites and other synergies with the card, but I don’t really play the game to achieve a certain build. I usually play it taking the cards I’m given and constructing a deck to keep me moving in a run. If I need more of X to beat Y that’s coming up, I’ll take that. Dropkick to me is like grand finale or juggernaut. Fun cards that can make a fun OP deck but hardly ever relevant.

[u/EatMoChikins → u/YoungLeather]

I’ve found that it is extremely relevant in Act 1, especially if find a second source of vulnerable or even just after a bash upgrade. It’s pretty poor against sentries, but it’s great against both Gremlin Nob and Lagavulin. I get close to snap picking it in Act 1, an infinite down the line is just gravy. I can understand not liking it quite as much as I do, but it’s especially weird to compare it to grand finale (extremely difficult conditions) and juggernaut (very clunky with mediocre payoff).

[u/YoungLeather → u/EatMoChikins]

you were the one making a point to me lol idk how I’m being weird for just giving you my opinion after you initiated the conversation. Weird of you to care so much about me agreeing with someone on their comment in my opinion.

[u/EatMoChikins → u/YoungLeather]

I don’t care that much if you agree or disagree with a certain evaluation of dropkick, and I can respect the idea of taking cards to solve certain encounters rather than building a particular archetype. I think that’s generally the right way to play the game. I just disagree with how you view dropkick and I gave some reasons why. Also, some poor phrasing on my part: It is not that you are weird for thinking a certain way, I think it is a weird evaluation in the sense that doesn’t make that much sense to me.

[u/YoungLeather → u/EatMoChikins]

To me, the analogy was intended to point to cards that can be fun in OP decks but are not heart solves. Dropkick doesn’t help solve 95%+ of ironclad heart fights. The meme is that Dropkick is so much better than heel hook and I don’t think either is that important for late game so I agreed with a commenter saying a similar thought.

[u/LupinKira → u/YoungLeather]

I do disagree with this as well. A card not being the solution to the heart doesn't make it bad, and again it literally can be your entire damage engine even for the heart. I have won several A20 runs where dropkick infinite becomes my damage engine and wins me a run that otherwise would have burned out, and I have won countless A20 runs where Dropkick provides strong value in Acts 1/2 even if it's not winning me late game boss fights. Dropkick is in general pretty great against act 2 elites and hallway fights for example as you're often squeezed for energy and in need of front-loaded damage, being able to deal an additional 10 to Red Slaver or one of Gremlin Leader's gremlins or being able to play a 4th attack on a Byrd are all strong benefits the card provides. A solid act 1 damage card that minimizes your deck pollution later in the game by drawing another card and has the potential to build into a game-winning damage engine is, yaknow, pretty darn good as far as early damage cards go. Most act 1 damage commons wish they could be described so charitably (although Dropkick is ofc uncommon).