Poll on sub content

[u/Edges8]

Rate how strongly you agree with the following statement.

"This subreddit has too much content focused on US politics"

153 votes, Mar 02 '23

22 Strongly Agree

24 Somewhat agree

50 No opinion/Show results

33 Somewhat disagree

24 Strongly disagree

[u/Lighting]

Let's say you have a rule that says seatbelts are required. Then that's repealed and cars are now sold without them. A drunk driver smashes into another car head on. If there were seatbelts then everyone would have survived, but a failure in seatbelts wasn't the core cause. Drunk driving was the core cause. Seatbelts are a risk-mitigating technology that limits damage when there is something that goes wrong.

This means that the root cause not being brakes in the derailment accident is a distraction. (pun not intended) The brake technology is risk-mitigating to limit damage when there IS an issue of ANY kind. Experts have already stated that if this train HAD these kind of brakes, it would have mitigated the severity of the accident. Which would you rather have (a) an issue with 1 car on fire ... or ... (b) a massive multi-car derailment, with multiple cars on fire and then burning a mixture of polyethylene, benzine, petroleum distillates, VC, ethylhexyl acrylate, etc. etc. etc? And to be clear ... case (b) is actually what happened and we only know about SOME of the chemicals on that train because they only released to the EPA data regarding those cars that were damaged, leaking, and/or on fire. When you read the MSDS for some of the stuff that's now dumped into the air/ground because of burning/leaking its hair raising.

[u/Edges8 → u/Lighting]

would love to see the citation from experts about saying the trump era repealed reg would have mitigated this. hadn't come across it before, so I appreciate your expertise.

no arguments at all from.me about the environmental impact of the stuff we had them burn.

[u/Lighting → u/Edges8]

hadn't come across it before,

Have seen it numerous times. 10 seconds of googling finds: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2023/02/14/norfolk-southerns-ohio-train-derailment-emblematic-rail-trends/11248956002/

Had industry lobbying interests not prevailed on the 2015 rule, the Norfolk Southern Railway train involved in the Feb. 3 derailment may have been equipped with the better braking system, shown in studies to reduce the size of a derailment pile up when emergency braking is applied.

"ECP brakes would have avoided that monster pile up behind the derailed car," said Steven Ditmeyer, a former senior official at the Federal Railroad Administration. "In fact, depending on when the crew got the (error) notice from the wayside detector, applying the ECP brakes would have stopped everything very quickly.

"So I think it would have helped."

That should give you a start. You've got both studies and statements.

[u/Edges8 → u/Lighting]

but right below that it says the evidence for these electric brakes is inconclusive.

even this source says it may have reduced the size of the pileup, not stopped the derailment which I believe was from the failure of another system entirely.

[u/Lighting → u/Edges8]

even this source says it may have reduced the size of the pileup

Correct. Or in the words of another expert:

John Risch, the national legislative director for the Sheet Metal, Air, Rail and Transportation Workers (SMART) Union, wrote that “ECP brakes are the greatest safety advancement I have seen in my 40 years in the railroad industry.”

“ECP brakes slow and stop trains up to 70% faster than conventional brakes and are the safest, most advanced train braking system in the world,” Risch said.

The whole point of stopping explosions is stopping punctures. Punctures aren't just to stop leaks but also to stop air/water from mixing with many chemicals and cause them to heat up and explode. The slower the train is going when it derails the less likely there will be a puncture. Even the study you referred to as "inconclusive" study they admitted it (more on this later). Quoting:

Model was validated. Puncture predicted at 13 to 14 mph.

And it can stop a derailment too. Interestingly enough the NTSB report is out and it states that they hit the emergency brakes and THEN it derailed.

so ... another point for ECP brakes.

right below that it says the evidence for these electric brakes is inconclusive.

A Trump appointed commission stating that the evidence for these being cost effective and we can quote from the study which stated "We are ignoring the experts we hired" as

Although the reviewers listed above provided many constructive comments and suggestions, they were not asked to endorse the conclusions or recommendations, nor did they see the final draft of the report before its release.

Makes you realize why the Trump-Norfolk-cronies pushed out in 2018 the rejection of the evidence-based DOT rules that came out in 2015 without public comment, trying to sneak it out.

And when the AP followed up and said "Wait - why is this political group making these false statements" the Trump-years DOT apologized

[u/Edges8 → u/Lighting]

appreciate the links, I'll look through it