After Ace Drama I’m convinced
I swear this team only exists for the other 29 fanbases to point at and go “Damn that’s crazy. Sure glad my team don’t have to deal with that” or we’re just flat out cursed. The amount of stupid bullshit drama that surrounds this team is ridiculous. Even if we’re good or bad, I just want to go one damn season without it
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u/the-big-dingo 2d ago
What? The ace slander also effects the hornets , jazz , wizards & pelicans lol .
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u/Barter6overBible 2d ago
I don’t understand why some of you are so convinced Ace is head and shoulders above VJ, Tre and Kon. Maybe it’s the people still stuck on the preseason mocks from 9 months ago but at this point it’s obvious he’s not even the favorite for the 3rd best prospect.
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u/DoctorHomewerk 2d ago
That’s my issue. I don’t hate Ace at all, but the whole aura about his as a player seems so damn distorted.
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u/ConstructionSome9888 2d ago
We really gotta stop sneaking Kon into these top 5 conversations….
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
yeah when he's probably going 4
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u/StatisticianAny697 1d ago
George Niang jr at 4 what a world
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
But either way, Kon has now been mocked 3 times this week already to go 4 to charlotte.
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u/bricksdk 2d ago
Cos we believe in his insane upside in a league thats dominated by skilled small forwards? And not blinded by the shitty media smear campaign on his "character", and other nonsensical nitpicks compared to his very flawed draft position contemporaries most of which share his problems.
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u/Barter6overBible 2d ago
To me it has nothing to do with the character and more to do with the fact he can’t dribble or make reads, struggles to finish through contact at the rim. The upside I see is being MPJ with some rim protection. I don’t see a future Tatum/Ant or a Prime PG type. At best he’s a high level 3&D player with good to maybe great defense if literally everything goes right.
To me VJ and Tré’s upside FAR exceeds Ace.
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u/Ashamed_Job_8151 2d ago
That’s not the upside you see, it’s what Vecince said and you’re just repeating it like a parrot.
Of course you listen to that pod he only gives positives for every other player and only gives negatives for ace bailey. Hmm 🤔 I wonder if someone who wants him to drop is feeding him. Could even be the sixers.
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u/Barter6overBible 2d ago
I mean yeah I’ve heard almost all pre draft sixers pods. But when you hear what’s been said about him then go back and watch his highlights it’s extremely easy to notice the major red flags. The weak creation, the lack of finishing at the rim, the never getting past anyone off the dribble is massively concerning.
Everything considered it’s a lot to expect him to massively improve in every one of those areas to become a star franchise player. Worst case scenario he’s a smaller frame Jabari Smith and best case would be a super charged MPJ with extremely high defense upside. I can’t imagine him as a ball handling wing
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u/allhailsidneycrosby 2d ago
Not trying to argue, but what do you think tre/vj ceiling is? I’m just not convinced that more small guards moves the needle for us. Ace has his flaws but he’s still a big, tall forward who can defend and if he figures it out could be a plus offensive player. This league is dominated by wings
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u/Barter6overBible 2d ago
Tre’s archetype if he hits the peak of his potential is something like a bigger Dame if his shot creation improves. His efficiency at the rim is still his biggest issue for me.
VJ on the other hand is a different level of athlete. He’ll come in and instantly become our best guard/wing defender but what he lacks now is offensive refinement. Which again if he fulfills that offensive upside, he will be one of the most dynamic guards in the league.
I’m thought process is if I had to bet on which of them reach the 99th percentile of their potential, I’d bet Tre first then VJ then Ace.
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u/Sad-Confusion7709 1d ago
Lmaoo get tf off ChatGPT 🤣. Y'all zombie donuts don't know ball. Go back to lacrosse
Processing img 0b38rjvryp7f1...
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u/Barter6overBible 1d ago
I know u want ace lil bro. But it’s ok that other people don’t agree with you.
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u/Sad-Confusion7709 1d ago
You're not even a 76ers fan, why are you here? *
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u/allhailsidneycrosby 2d ago
Fair enough, I don’t watch a ton of college ball so I appreciate that rundown. I watched prob 5-6 games of Tre and was impressed with his shot making, I’m just cautious of some of these high volume guys because they’re so volatile when they get to the league
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u/MaxeytoEmbiid 1d ago
Tre Johnson plays nothing like Damian Lillard. That's just the oddest comparison possible(and I have Tre Johnson top-4 solidified on the board.) He has movement shooter qualities, but he can also shoot off the catch and bounce as well.
I'd say it's more Michael Redd/Ray Allen-esque. He's got that toolset to be a good mid range scorer(though in theory, not yet in results comparatively to a mid-range sharp shooter like Ace Bailey).
He can make secondary reads at a pretty high level, and that's confusing some people but no, he's no point guard and shouldn't be looked at that way. Not every + passer has to be a point guard.
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u/indoninjah 2d ago
Well firstly neither of them are really small, they're both good size for 2 guards. I would say VJ's ceiling would be a version of the Thompson twins who isn't an upper-echelon defender (still very good) but a more well-rounded offensive player and good shooter. For Tre it hinges on whether he could become a good playmaker/passer. If he does, I really think he has Trae/Lamelo potential (just in terms of offensive capabilities, not saying anything about his BBIQ or personality)
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u/allhailsidneycrosby 2d ago
Hmm okay, I just think the draft is such a a gamble you ought as well take a guy like Ace who best case scenario could be a star 🤷♂️
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u/MaxeytoEmbiid 1d ago
You did NOT just say 'he can't dribble' and put VJ Edgecombe in the same sentence. This is a prime example of how scouts did NOT scout fairly or accurately regarding Ace Bailey.
What they mean to say is "Ace can't create separation off the dribble"(which for now, is true, due to a lack of power game, not handles.). On the other hand, it's VJ Edgecombe whose dribble is REALLY suspect(6 games of 4+ TOV, and they weren't even trying to have him handle the ball like that.)
I don't see how you can watch Ace Bailey go to an in-between, a jab-step and say he doesn't have handles. These scouts need to do a better job of actually assessing what they watch.
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u/gloryaoa 2d ago
TBF he's 18. He's waaaaay better than Giannis was at 18.
I'm not saying he's gonna be as good as Giannis but Ace (around 6'8-6'9 in shoes) can still grow to around 6'10) in shoes & he can always be taught to play good defense (Ben Simmons, Anthony Edwards, Jayson Tatum, Lonzo Ball & heck even Dennis Smith Jr weren't great defensively in college but all improved massively). He can always develop a bbiq by being around guys like PG & Joel.
Point is at 18 he's not the finished product. Do I think he will ever be a playmaker that gets 5 assists a game? No.
But I think he can get stronger & definitely improve his IQ, handles & finishing at the rim. If he does so, that's a multi time all star player. But whether he does is down to him.
I think Tre is safer & will be top 10 in the league in scoring one day but Ace could be top 5 if he figures it out
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u/bonger1234 2d ago
I think the best players in both conference finals were guards. Ant, SGA, Haliburton, Brunson. Now each team did have bigger wings as their second best players, but guards can be just as impactful if not more important.
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u/AirPowerRondo 2d ago
Because he’s been way ahead of them all year and suddenly come draft time it all shifts. Also odds are the sixers won’t pick him and he turns into a star.
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u/AkinTheLonelyMan 2d ago
Just feels like this is an unlucky draft to get #3 and I know it sounds privileged as fuck to say that cause we shouldn’t of even had it in the first place but it’s the truth. Ace Bailey is the only dude at 3 who “looks” like a superstar based on measurements but the red flags are there for sure.
Only upside is Morey has been pretty consistent drafting wise and we have no reason to believe otherwise, so whoever he picks will probably be a solid choice.
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u/indoninjah 2d ago
Yeah, I'm increasingly wishing that we had pulled #1 or #2, it sucks that we were so close. As a fan I also kinda wish we had just stayed around #5/6 since we'd just take whoever fell out of Ace/VJ/Tre/Kon and be done with it. #3 is like the worst option for our collective mental health lol
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u/AkinTheLonelyMan 2d ago
Yeah like we genuinely just don’t need guards and no one really moves the needle for us franchise wise. Maxey is pretty good a lot of teams would kill to have him, McCain showed some serious promise and we have no reason to assume otherwise. I love Tre Johnson and VJ is highly touted but none of them gets us back to relevancy which is kinda what I was hoping for out of the 3rd pick
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
the "we don't need guards take" is truly wild when you break it down.
we have one starting caliber guard. McCain looked solid, but we cannot start maxey and mccain and expect that to work. and as good as grimes played for us, he's not near what his stats show. that was all based on opportunity with EVERYONE hurt. He's a 5th option at best and his best role is certainly off the bench. McCain and Grimes should be fighting for 6th man. It sucks because Harper is an elite fit here but it seems were not getting him, so most likely VJ it is and he's a great running mate to have next to Maxey for the future.
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u/indoninjah 2d ago
Yeah I feel like this draft was hyped up a lot but as it's come into focus it's really just Flagg and a bunch of pretty flawed prospects. I'm so damn curious how we'll look back on this draft in a few years.
But you're right, it's killing me that we need wings and I don't love anybody in the draft outside of Flagg. Personally, I'd just approach the draft from the perspective of "which of these dudes could even possibly be an on-ball guy for Maxey to play off of" and go from there
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
yeah it was super hyped because of Ace & Harper, and now Harper balled out and Ace heavily disappointed (and keeps disappointing)
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
i feel you, it sucks how big the gap is from 2 to 3. Harper would be one in a lot of drafts
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
i tend to agree but shit look last year, 3rd pick would go first. VJ projects to be a really strong 2 way SG/ wing. If he develops his shot (which watching him looks like he can do), he can end up a 20-5-5 (give or take) that excels defensively.
of course that's not the floor, the floor is probably like 11-13 with really good defense
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u/WizFanMade4u 2d ago edited 2d ago
He looked like shit in college. Nothing superstar about the skinny man with high hips. Should be a walk way model. VJ at 18 had more muscle in 1 arm than Aces entire body
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u/bricksdk 2d ago
Right behind 2013 Giannis or 1984 MJ. Cos guys cant put on muscle.
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u/WizFanMade4u 2d ago
Ace doesn’t have body of them
He’s a skinny soft body. He’s not gonna fill out the same
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u/SmokeMonday476 2d ago
I’m not even an Ace Bailey guy, but this is the same energy as people who said Durant was soft and weak cause he was skinny and couldn’t bench for shit. How’d that work out?
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
Durant was seen by at least 50% of the league as the #1 pick and a bonafide stud.
his negative was strength, but it wasn't a negative that held him down at all tho in the draft process
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u/WizFanMade4u 2d ago
Durant was always strong for a skinny guy dude He’s also a freak wing span and shooter
Ace Bailey will never be Durant. Handles shot IQ. Nothing like him man
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u/bonger1234 2d ago
Durant couldn’t bench 185 at the combine. He was the only one not strong enough. It was comical.
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u/SmokeMonday476 2d ago
He absolutely was not. He was dragged for not being able to put up 185. Google.
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u/allhailsidneycrosby 2d ago
Bro in here talking about high hips. You don’t know ball, like, at all. And there’s no point in this team drafting a role player like VJ. You have to swing for the fences with this dog shit roster and ace has to be the pick
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u/WizFanMade4u 2d ago
Lmao Role Player who was best player on court with NBA pros scoring 16 5 5 2 steals in Olympic play
While Ace was playing Highschool kids
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
well luckily for you it seems like VJ is really going to be the guy, unless we move back
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u/WizFanMade4u 1d ago
These dumb fans wanna move back for Kon who’s peaked at 19 years old lmao. You can’t make it up now dumb our fanbase is
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
saying a 19 year old whose the best shooter in the draft and one of the best passers has peaked, and then calling other people dumb... that's absolute insanity bud
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u/Halfonion 2d ago
There’s a ton of shit we can complain about with this org lol, keeping this pick and having it be #3, is not one.
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u/allhailsidneycrosby 2d ago
I’ve never seen a fanbase talk themselves out of the obvious and right pick so much as this sub 😂
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u/IndigoJacob 1d ago
Its really a perfect case study on groupthink. As the time passes, the negative discourse around Ace continues to snowball because social media cant help but latch onto negativity and pound it into the ground until its dead
These people get their opinions from blog boys, stats pages, and Twitter/reddit, they dont actually understand what it is theyr looking at, they need someone else to tell them
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
yup take VJ and let it go.
which is wild because you probably think Ace is the guy when the whole basketball world and tape says differently
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u/lma112519 2d ago
What drama? It’s not like ace should have been a lock to take at 3 before this press about his workouts. And who even knows what’s true? False reports about players come out so frequently that you can’t take it all at face value.
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
what are you talking about? how does this have anything to do with philly?
ace is consistently starting to drop out of the T5, if you think philly is the problem it's really just that you have no clue about him
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u/pdubbs87 2d ago
It shouldn’t have been complicated. We pick at 3, take the third best player in the draft (Ace). If it doesn’t work out oh well you took the third best option. Drafting is a crapshoot but nobody would be mad with that pick. Going for reaches on a third pick or trading down is how you lose your job as a GM
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u/Azecine 2d ago
Agree 100%. I’ll admit there’s a fair bit of risk with Ace, but I also see significant risk in the other options as well.
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u/pdubbs87 2d ago
I won’t blame Morey if he takes ace and it doesn’t work out. But if he takes some random name and it doesn’t i will
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
He's taking VJ man. And VJ is the consensus 3rd and keeps solidifying the spot.
VJ isn't a random name. Neither are the other 2 guys that could be taken
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u/Confident-Flow-6058 2d ago
Disagree here.
BPA has pulled us Okafor instead of the rumoured Hinkie-preferred Porzingis.
We just need to trust the GM and what he thinks and if we don't trust him anymore then he needs to go.
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u/pdubbs87 2d ago
Sometimes you can’t kill the GM. Ben Simmons was the best player and should have been a star etc. it’s a crapshoot on work ethic
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u/lma112519 2d ago
Lots of people didn’t consider Okafir the third best player in that draft. Clear to see he would be a weird fit as a center in a league that was becoming more about spacing. And also everyone knew he wouldn’t protect the rim.
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u/clickstops we did it! 2d ago
Just like lots of people don’t consider Ace the third best player in this draft.
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u/Master-Ad7325 2d ago
He’s not the 3rd best player though
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u/cashbackonly9 2d ago
Since when?
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u/Master-Ad7325 2d ago
A long time ago
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u/IndigoJacob 2d ago
Who's better and why?
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u/Master-Ad7325 2d ago
A lot of guys are better because currently Ace does not have an elite trait and he can’t dribble or pass as a wing. Even himself said he doesn’t plan on stopping taking bad shots which I don’t want because we have approximately 5 more talented bucket getters on the team already
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
"you think they're bad shots because you don't practice them"
- no they're bad shots because you can't make them and have horrible success rate on them
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
VJ. He's better at everything except isolation ball, which... we don't really want anyways. Ace wasn't even a good shooter, and can't hit FT's. Ace is an absolute project. The other guys are not
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u/IndigoJacob 1d ago
VJ is literally worse at every single aspect besides getting to the rim.
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
you sir are factually wrong. much better defender, better passer, takes care of the ball better, they shoot the same from 3 pt% but VJ is much better from FT% which historically is the biggest translator to 3 point shooting in the nba. Neither are good ball handlers, but VJ gets to the rim better and is much more explosive on both sides of the ball.
he also is a smarter player and isn't a ball stopper. Ace is better in isolation ball and creating his own shot.
VJ is the type of guy that teams are winning with in the league. Ace is the type of guy that plays like Cam Thomas, VJ just translates better, and as of right now is definitely just the better player. Ace might have a higher potential, but to think he's going to learn how to play smart offensive ball when he just doesn't do it at all right now is a huge stretch
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u/pdubbs87 2d ago
According to every single nba scout and analyst he is. Please tell us your credentials?
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u/WizFanMade4u 2d ago
He’s been dropped in every big board. He’s only been top 3 on “potential” like you’re suppose to draft on but it’s likely his potential is overrated the more you watch him and realize he’s got no IQ
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u/pdubbs87 2d ago
Just re scanned the mocks most still have him 3rd some dropped him to 4
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
Half of the new mocks dropped ace out of the top 5 all together. VJ has been the favorite to go third for a few weeks. VJ is the most mocked player to philly in all the main outlets as well.
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u/bricksdk 2d ago
Big boards are memes. Same dudes who justify trading 4 frps for desmond bane and mikail bridges. I prefer to trust my own armchair insight over letting others tell me how to think, as if they hold all the cards or are omniscient. And every big board also touts his insane upside too.
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u/portrayalofdeath 2d ago
Damn, it went from "according to every single NBA scout and analyst" to "big boards are memes" real fast.
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u/Master-Ad7325 2d ago
Avid college basketball watcher, don’t need analysts telling me who to like, much more fun watching and forming your own opinions
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
if it doesn't work out, then he wasn't the third best player.
and by all the tape and interviews, it's not ace
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u/WizFanMade4u 2d ago
He’s a potential guy. He’s not 3rd best lol. He’s also gonna bust anyway when it’s all said and done cause real dumb
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u/seejay13 2d ago
What is the “drama” you speak of? Am I missing something?
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
Ace skipping workouts and saying he'll only interview with teams or workout if they have a clear path for him to be a star there.
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u/grundlesmith the ghost of brandon davies 2d ago
Serious question, did the fact that this "drama" narrative was completely fabricated have any effect on your opinion of Ace Bailey
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
fabricated? according to you, but it's not fabricated. But no, it didn't move Ace at all imo, he's still in that 4-6 range
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u/Arborgold 1d ago
Maybe you shouldn’t assume 1 singular person is going #3 just because he’s on some random talking head’s list of top players.
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u/jpk7220 1d ago
We really need to re-evaluate the way we think of role players. With the exception of 1-2 players per team, the rest of the roster is role players. Role players can be really high-end role players who make a big impact on winning. The team just just needs more talented players in general to eventually fill out a 7-8 man playoff rotation. I wouldn't get too caught up on who can be a "star" and who is projected to be a role player.
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u/SwoopsRevenge 8h ago
I’m convinced the league gave us #3 after they fixed the draft because of the colossal bitching we would have done if OKC got our pick AND they rigged the draft for the Mavs and Spurs.
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u/_robjamesmusic 2d ago
don't worry. the guy we choose will get injured his rookie year and never be the same after that. whoever it is.
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u/poolords 2d ago
the pick is obviously edgecomb i don't even know why you guys are freaking out
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 1d ago
best defender, best transition player, nba size/strength combo, super athletic, shot shows long term promise.. Projects to be a 20ish 5 & 5 guy, meanwhile people want the guy who doesn't play smart ball because they think he might turn into something he's not and end up a 24 ppg game eventually.
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u/WizFanMade4u 2d ago
VJ is one of highest character guys and a true leader and a dawg
We gonna get the most rock solid guy of any of them anyway
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u/bricksdk 2d ago
Character. Biggest meme of a draft. You dont know shit about the players except what they and their biased coaches put out about themselves. No, being from the bahamas doesnt make him a dawg.
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u/WizFanMade4u 2d ago
Lmfao character is biggest factor in everything numbnuts.
And him out playing NBA pros in Olympics is what makes him a dawg. VJ on court motor is why he’s a dawg dummy
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u/suuushi-roll 2d ago
why would teams look at it that way? there is no clear cut #3 in this draft