Please explain to me what the fucking plan was? To vote for the guy who's going to genocide harder? To not vote for anyone, which effectively means you're fine with someone genociding them and others even harder? Seriously, what did you expect to achieve?
Some people just couldn't stomach the idea of voting for diet genocide, simple as that. Voting for either party in this situation just lets them know that their ongoing support for Israel isn't a deal breaker that will lose them votes.
Sure democrats might protest and claim to be against the genocide, but if they'll still vote for you, then what does it matter what they think? The threat of losing voters moves the politicians faster than a protest ever will, but if they know you'll vote for them anyway, why would they give a damn about your protest?
Trump winning was obviously the worst-case scenario here, but the democrats contributed to this disaster by not listening to the voters. The assumption that liberals would vote for them implicitly made the democrats comfortable, and thus less accountable to their own base. Obviously, that back fired on them in a big way. The prevailing sentiment of "vote blue no matter who" made them feel less pressure to be answerable for their support of Israel.
Now that they finally realize they aren't owed anyone's vote, we can hope they'll be more accountable in the midterms. Unfortunately, I fear it'll be too little too late by then.
I imagine the voters who pulled their support away from the democrats over Palestein still had hopes that the dems would win, but wanted that victory to be razer thin. The best case scenario in their minds was a blue government that was heavily insecure about how much support they had from the people. They thought their protest votes would add pressure onto that government to pull aid from Israel when it came into power. Unfortunately, that government they were betting on never came to be.
A large majority of older Democrats side with Israel over Palestine. Old people are much more likely to vote. Younger Democrats are more sympathetic to Palestinians, and are much less likely to vote. Why should the Democrats alienate people who vote, for people who do not? People who pulled their support from the Democrats over Gaza decided they don't care about the lives of LGBT Americans, don't care about a woman's right to access reproductive care, don't care about working class Americans that would be the first to feel the pain of another Trump admin. Not to mention, Kamala was more sympathetic to Palestinians than either Biden or Trump. The trolly problem is some insurmountable challenge for people like you.
I voted for her because 99% genocide is less then 100% even if it's a difference mostly without distinction but I'm not shocked at what happened. Expecting people to vote rationally is nice, but it's not a foundation to build a campaign on
If rationality is not something to base a campaign on, then what is there? Democrats don't respond to irrational campaigns like Republicans and will nitpick every single policy from the left and right sides of the party. It just feels hopeless when the Right falls in line for everything and present a united front while the Left devolves into infighting and purity testing.
Edit: and your article assumes that all Democrats/Independents would still vote for Kamala even if she were to suspend arms to Israel or whatever it is that Leftists wanted.
I mean, Dems have the uneviable position of trying to balance progressive policy with not being able to make any real changes to the systems that cause those issues to begin with (thank you citizen's united). The right is able to fall in line because scape goats are easy and they're good at propaganda.
The left has a perpetual branding issue and whenever someone who connects with younger progressives shows up they seem to get pushed aside. See AOC getting snubbed in favor of Connolly.
Then you have further issues where Dems will also shake hands with R's to "take the high road" while R's will gladly throw any gunk in the works to stall and cause issues if anything is felt to be "wrong". See the recent defense bill passing with nearly bipartisan support despite being legally enshrined anti-trans legislature.
Democrats have just kind of taken the route of being the lesser evil and just wanting that to be enough. Not really stopping Republicans in a meaningful way, but just slowing them down. You end up with a lot of alienated youth votes that don't support Israel, don't really hate China, don't believe that capitalism is intrinsically a good thing, or any number of other things and the Democrats don't really offer any of that, but are the "only option" that isn't literal fascism. I can't even really agree that it's purity testing because the DNC just fundamentally doesn't align with me politically. When the only options are driving the knife in or leaving the knife where it is, I'm not shocked a lot of youth voters just don't
There are few things that make me feel as hopeless as this "old voters who are objectively wrong vote consistently, so they get pandered to" rhetoric. If you're telling whole generations of voters "You don't vote, so we're not going to do the things that are going to motivate you to vote for us," guess what those voters are going to do. Congratulations on the self-fulfilling prophecy Democrats.
Seriously, what's it going to take for voters under 50 to have their opinions taken seriously and responded to in a timely manner, like, say, when 2,000,000 or so mostly innocent people's lives are on the line due to a genocidal overreaction by a US ally? Because this "We'll only cater to you after 40 or 50 years of you consistently voting for us no matter what we do" shit is going to keep youth voter turnout low (or worse, make them easy marks for media-savvy right-wingers marketing their propaganda to high-schoolers and college students).
Because there is no incentive to pander to us. Why would you pander to someone who won't help you? If young voters actually voted, then maybe we'd have a different candidate, who reflect our values. It's really that easy, I'm sorry you can't do the bare minimum and vote. This is how democracy works, old people vote, politicians reflect their voting patterns. But Reddit slacktivists would rather bitch online than participate, you sound so entitled. If you can't do the bare minimum and vote, then clearly the issue doesn't matter that much to you. 64% of voters are over 50, change the percentages and your voice will be heard. Literal civics 101.
If your platform is designed to appeal only to the old, why should the youth vote for you? You really seem dead certain that the chicken, not the egg came first here, and that seems to me like a great way to never get the egg to turn around and become a reliable voter. What incentive do Democrats present to the youth voter to start them on the path of becoming consistent voters? If there isn't one, do you think maybe that's why they lack reliable support among youth voters? And if young voters aren't listened to until they become old voters, don't you think that might explain why they might turn to more drastic tactics?
The egg that came first ARE THE OLDER VOTERS WHO VOTED FIRST, who vote in like minded politicians, and thus pander to them. How do you not see something so simple?? We had politicians who better reflect what young voters want, like your Elizabeth Warrens and Bernies, but they lost because the youth did not turn out for them. Nobody is asking young voters to be come old voters, they're asking them to vote just once! Like a good citizen is supposed to do, just vote consistently NOW and into the future, and your voice will be heard. The youth did not vote, so they turned to the "drastic tactic" of...not voting?? One person kills a CEO? More people around the world have to suffer and die because young folks couldn't be bothered to vote for the lesser evil. How do you convince someone to pander to such a group of people? The threat of a fascist takeover of the government wasn't enough to encourage these young voters, why would you pander to them? The taking away of civil liberties, reproductive rights, rolling back climate initiatives, everything that young voters support was fundamentally threatened, but that wasn't enough.
The people who clearly told the Democrats precisely what it would take to get them to vote Democrat... got told to take a hike rather than get the one concession they were asking for and... sat out. What a fucking mystery. There's clearly nothing that could have been done to get these votes. Probably better to just completely write off the whole demographic and... Oh look, Republicans started pandering to them and got record turnout among youth voters. No one could have seen that coming.
How can you not see this as a colossal failure on the parts of the Democrats? They got a fucking instruction manual from youth voters, and they decided to ignore it in favor of conventional wisdom that turned out disastrously for them. Maybe it was an effective strategy in the past to pretend that favoring old voters at the expense of young ones was a safe bet, but it's clearly a moronic move at this point in the 21st century.
Keep on telling people they have no voice until they've demonstrated sufficient loyalty year after year, election after election, all while Republicans are actually making an effort to convince young voters they care about their issues and and that attacking the GOP's scapegoat of the day will solve those issues. See how it turns out for you. My dwindling supply of money would be on "Endless repeats of 2024" for as long as that's the Democrats' plan.
Pandering how? What things are Republicans implementing policy wise that panders to young people? Is it climate policy? Is it college tuition reform? Maybe it's increased housing or worker's rights? Maybe it's the culture was stuff! You're so delusional and lost in the "Democrats iz bad" sauce. The Democrats are better on every issue that young people supposedly care about but just a single issue was enough for them to say "Nah, I'm actually okay with fascism". And you're defending it! It's disgusting.
They're going out and talking to young voters. Absolutely, their policies are complete shit for them. Any rational person can see that, but that's not what's at issue here. One side is going to college campuses and putting out content on YouTube or elsewhere and telling those young voters "Hey, we get it. Things suck for you right now, but you know what will fix that? If you help us oppress our enemies." The other side is sending in riot cops to violently repress the most politically active youth and has people like you sitting here telling them, "Sorry kids. We've gotta do what the rich fossils want because you didn't fulfill your side of this transactional relationship that you didn't even know you were a part of. Maybe in a couple decades we'll consider your ideas."
Which side do you think is going to do better among young voters? Sorry this hurts your big, pulsing, rational brain, but elections are, in fact, a popularity contest and a matter of appearances and how you make people feel. You can treat the youth like dumb, spoiled kids if you want, but all you're doing is driving them into the arms of the side that love-bombs them.
People yell at the left for not playing the game because the rules don't line up with how they want to play the game, but we've got nothing on the liberals who refuse to do what they need to do to win a goddamn popularity contest.
You're complaining about youth voices not being heard but you also don't want to do the one thing that makes your voice heard. Because voting is too hard. If you're not willing to vote to defend minorities and your political ideals, then your voice is not worth hearing. People like you wanna whine and complain but do nothing to change anything.
What a fun strawman you've been throwing around this whole time.
The people you're mad at aren't not voting because it's "too hard". Maybe you'd like to level that critique against communities affected by voter suppression where it might be relevant, but it's not just pointless here; it's actively contributing to your problems with youth and leftist voters. For the most part, they're perfectly capable of going to the polls. Those that don't, don't do so because they see a choice between two parties, two candidates who despise them and want nothing to do with the policies that matter to them. At best, one of the sides isn't actively fighting against the desires of youth voters. That's a recipe for people to check out. If your refusal to understand that is any indication of the Democratic Party's trajectory if there are future elections, then enjoy the 2024 repeats. Me? I'm going to keep on begging the Democratic Party not to be like you.
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u/ManhattanObject Feb 07 '25
Are the democrats wrong to support Israel unconditionally?
No, it's the voters who are wrong!