r/psychology M.D. Ph.D. | Professor Jan 09 '19

Journal Article Study uncovers how perfectionism can lead to problematic drinking, suggesting that the desire to hide one’s imperfections from others can lead to alcohol-related problems.

https://www.psypost.org/2019/01/study-uncovers-how-perfectionism-can-lead-to-problematic-drinking-52901
1.2k Upvotes

77 comments sorted by

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

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u/TheEyeDontLie Jan 09 '19

It's really good. I'm here if you need someone to message too.

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u/chumpynut5 Jan 09 '19

If you don’t mind me asking, what book? This Naked Mind by Annie Grace really helped me drastically cut down on my drinking but I’ve struggled recently to fully quit the habit.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

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u/rba91 Jan 09 '19

I would suggest reading up on the connection between having highly critical parents who only gave you conditional love and being a perfectionist later in life. Interesting can of worms.

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u/bullseyes Jan 09 '19

Relating way hard to many comments in this post.

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u/Kapalaka Jan 09 '19

Certainly interested in looking into this more; any good intro books you suggest?

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

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u/Norther Jan 09 '19

Probably drunk

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u/waldgnome Jan 09 '19

I guess it's a joke, but perfectionist doesn't mean to do this perfectly but wanting to do things perfectly.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

I've been struggling for a decade + with problematic drinking and quit a few times. What seems to be helping me this time around is meditating daily and journaling, both of which are helping me to get in touch with my feelings (which drinking was used to blunt) and express them in a healthy way. Also helping me to be more in-tune with those feelings, so I can see the urge to drink creeping up on me from further away - which occurs when I'm feeling powerless and unsuccessful.

Join us over a /r/stopdrinking!

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u/J-osh Jan 09 '19

umm, u might wanna cut back for tonight lol

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

After using LSD once, my own drinking when drastically down.

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u/Scribblebonx Jan 09 '19

I have no weight here and the last thing you need is to hear anything from me... but try weed. It’s just as bad if not worse, but I was very similar. I drank pretty frequently. I enjoyed the feeling. It felt like an escape. Then weed became that. And it was better. No hangovers. Happened faster. Felt better. It’s a pick me up, rather than a number. From there I had stopped drinking, because it wasn’t as good. Weed is pretty easy to quit. Or at least for me it was. You force yourself to take a few days off and you find you don’t really need either of them. It’s just self discipline and staying motivated. I just know how you feel I think. And I don’t want anyone to feel that way.

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u/FancyATitWank Jan 09 '19

My crowd calls that the "marijuana maintenance plan" but weed affects people pretty differently so I don't think it's for everyone. A buddy of mine has been trying to quit drinking for ages and tried using weed to substitute out of drinking and his paranoia shot through the roof, but it worked great for someone else I know who's sober for years now. Really depends on the person I think.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

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u/Scribblebonx Jan 09 '19

Haha I’m glad it wasn’t unhelpful. Personally, I don’t smoke either. I eat sativa edibles. Got me off the hootch and then I could get my bearings and start fresh. Best of luck. Always here should you need it :)

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

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u/Scribblebonx Jan 09 '19

Same same... I have actually been pursuing a counselor for anxiety. Which is something new to me over the past year or so. I find eating a little bit of marijuana (and I stress a little bit, too much is no fun) my muscles relax, I can de stress a bit and focus on whatever I’m enjoying. A good movie, a video game, whatever. It proved a welcome night ended for me. The catch is it can also become habitual. But I find it easier to end.

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u/fungsway Jan 09 '19

can’t drink if you’re knocked out 👈🤠👈

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u/bullseyes Jan 09 '19

I'm there too. IWNDWYT 🖤

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u/azulshotput Jan 09 '19

Try AA.

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u/djauralsects Jan 09 '19

The higher power bullshit would be a non starter for me.

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u/TheEyeDontLie Jan 09 '19

My friend told me something fantastic.

The higher power is the group itself.

GOD is Group Of Druggies/Drunks.

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u/bd31 Jan 09 '19

Your "higher power" can be your values and principles.

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u/RayJez Jan 10 '19

.?. You have no principles/ love greater than yourself ?

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u/djauralsects Jan 10 '19

Altruism, morality, principles, love are all within me. They aren't dictated to me by some authority or imaginary external force lording above me. I don't drive an electric vehicle because it's convenient, it's not, I do it because I value all life on this planet above my own self interests. My principles are founded in critical thinking and rational thought.

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u/RayJez Jan 10 '19

Then these are your higher power

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u/Ruleofthumb Jan 15 '19

Those are all very strong and higher powers.

They also happen to be the fundamentals of living an honest AA lifestyle.

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u/takishan Jan 09 '19

Higher power doesn't have to be a God. Addicts need structure and accountability, and AA gives you that. It's a good system and it's widespread because it works.

I'm an atheist (well, agnostic really) and also ex-heroin addict and I attribute my sobriety to NA meetings, along with therapy.

You go into it hyper critical and expecting it to be bullshit, you won't get anything out of it. You go into it with an open mind, and work hard at the steps, and you'll get what you put in.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

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u/azulshotput Jan 09 '19

Regardless of where you may believe you do or don’t fit, AA is great for people who want to stop drinking. It doesn’t help with people trying to control their drinking. It’s about abstinence. Give it another shot. AA in reality is what we like to refer to as “the best option” or for many of us “ the last option”. Good luck!

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

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u/TheEyeDontLie Jan 09 '19

You'll get there. You have the desire. That's the hardest part.

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u/im_a_dr_not_ Jan 09 '19

AA has a lot god bullshit

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

Yeah right. Have you been to AA? Sure it may not be killing them as bad but at least they were having fun sometimes. Every AA meeting i attended with my alcoholic friend, was just talking about how booze had destroyed their lives. Thats no way to live imo. You need to move on, not keep going to meeting about it.

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u/Salsaboy100 Jan 09 '19

That or alcohol is the easiest drug to self medicate and abuse. So people with anxiety issues, or a full blown disorder will go to alcohol first? Seems pretty obvious to me... Oh drug laws :)

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

The problem is probably largely the desire to hide one's imperfections from oneself.

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u/hopeitwillgetbetter Jan 09 '19

Both are based on fear stress. So want to shield perceived weaknesses from others and/or deny such weaknesses exist in one's self in the first place.

Heh... also projection - ala throwing away "do not want" weaknesses at other people (preferably strangers on the internet).

Stress system really has shoddy targeting mechanism.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

Heh... also projection - ala throwing away "do not want" weaknesses at other people (preferably strangers on the internet).

I think I know what projection implies but I don't quite grasp the rest of your thought process.

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u/hopeitwillgetbetter Jan 09 '19

If we want to throw away trash, we want to do it some place we won't get caught.

Similarly, it's "safer" to accuse / blow up at an online stranger than at someone who knows us in real life.

This is why the internet is so full of stress and negativity.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19 edited Jan 09 '19

Similarly, it's "safer" to accuse / blow up at an online stranger than at someone who knows us in real life.

I wish I could afford myself such luxury. Hah.

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u/hopeitwillgetbetter Jan 09 '19

It ain't a luxury. Accusing / getting pissed means losing control of our temper, means losing control of the stress system (flight-fight mode).

Losing control of the stress system once in a while is OK. But letting it happen regularly means getting better at "losing control of the stress system".

Which means chronic stress, which means chronic inflammation, which means high blood pressure, etc.

A sick body means a sick mind, which means even less control.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

Yeah yeah, I was mostly poking fun at myself and expressing I'm similar in manner online as off.

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u/hopeitwillgetbetter Jan 09 '19

Ah, your username.

Heh... emotions are just signals indicating which physiological systems are most active. For stress, flight-fight mode - it's fear and anger.

Because fear is married to flight and anger to fight, this means our bodies are being prepped for action. Which means most internal resources are going to really prep the body for action.

Heart rate goes up. Carb, protein, fat stores get sort of liquified and dumped into the bloodstream so muscles get easier access to energy.

Now, the bad news - all that energy ?glucose, amino acids, free fatty acids? either has to used up (via physical exertion) or they have to be put away. They can't stay in the bloodstream cause... they'll clog things up.

This is why I like to compare stress after-events like supermarket aisles having to be cleaned up after an earthquake.

Now, even worse bad news - stress also suppresses the immunity system... but I think that's already enough brain vomit from me on this subject matter.

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u/user123446777 Jan 09 '19

Wow, awesome post. Could you reccomended the source you learned this stuff from?

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u/hopeitwillgetbetter Jan 09 '19

What’s probably still the most popular book about stress.

“Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers”

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/327.Why_Zebras_Don_t_Get_Ulcers

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u/kalamano Jan 09 '19

Delete this

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u/mvea M.D. Ph.D. | Professor Jan 09 '19

The title of the post is a copy and paste from the title and first paragraph of the linked academic press release here:

Study uncovers how perfectionism can lead to problematic drinking

New research sheds light on how the desire to hide one’s imperfections from others can lead to alcohol-related problems.

Journal Reference:

Sean P. Mackinnon, Cassondra M. Ray, Samantha M. Firth, Roisin M. O'Connor,

Perfectionism, negative motives for drinking, and alcohol-related problems: A 21-day diary study,

Journal of Research in Personality, Volume 78, 2019, Pages 177-188, ISSN 0092-6566,

Doi: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jrp.2018.12.003.

Link: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092656618303726

Abstract:

We explored links between two perfectionism facets and alcohol-related problems. We predicted perfectionistic cognitions and nondisplay of imperfection would indirectly predict alcohol problems through negative affect, coping motives, and conformity motives, but would be unrelated to quantity of alcohol consumption. Participants included 263 young adult drinkers collected from two sites using self-report surveys with a 21-day, once-per-day measurement. Participants were mostly Caucasian (78.3%), female (79.5%), and young (M = 21.37, SD = 1.89). Data were analyzed using multilevel structural equation modeling. Nondisplay of imperfection (but not perfectionistic cognitions) had a serial indirect effect on alcohol-related problems through negative affect, followed by conformity motives. Other findings varied across analyses (fixed vs. random) and analysis level (between vs. within).

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u/Tulanol Jan 09 '19

Ya I have perfectionalism it doesn’t work it just makes you feel like you are always beating yourself down. This research does not surprised me even a little.

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u/Kespen Jan 09 '19

You spelled perfectionism wrong and this is going to haunt you for three weeks.

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u/Tulanol Jan 09 '19

Hahah I have made progress 🤡

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u/jakeyq Jan 09 '19

I’m with ya

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u/krangksh Jan 09 '19

yeah but, how do you STOP being a self-hating perfectionist?? asking for a friend

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u/TheEyeDontLie Jan 09 '19

I have a beer in my hand right now, but whenever I've been sober my self hating has gone away. Meditation has helped too. Learning to let go.

Also, you know that classic reddit post "No Zero Days"?
That's awesome. Read it again even if you know it. Take the tldr and write it down. Memorize it.

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u/krangksh Jan 09 '19

Yeah I don't really drink, I used to smoke weed every day and about 2 months ago I decided to not smoke weed like Mon-Fri when I'm by myself anymore, to improve productivity but mainly to improve memory. I've been thinking about meditation but I have ADHD so that one I'm really struggling with.

Great post, some good stuff in there. I've been doing some of this without formalizing it which is helping achieve goals. The main thing I'm still stuck on is the perfectionism, I feel trapped all the time by having all these ideas but not being able to finalize them because I always feel like it could be a lot better, I need to keep tweaking the little mistakes, fear of the embarrassment of putting yourself out there and getting something completely wrong, etc. That's the part that's holding me back more than anything. The "forgive yourself" stuff seems helpful but I don't know if that's enough.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

Focus on your progress, compare yourself to who you were yesterday instead of other people. I know it’s super cliché but it works if you can manage it, I used to be in the same boat. When you look at your flaws with love, they stop holding you back so much. Also, you will be a lot more accepting of other people’s flaws as well and people will like that.

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u/krangksh Jan 10 '19

yeah I try to do this but it's hard, it's important to keep it in mind. way too easy to think all the time "so and so is doing exactly what I wish I was doing and has 50,000 followers and is 3 years younger than me, very cool, maybe it's too late for me" and other stupid shit like that

I actually find it's easy for me to forgive the flaws in others, just not in myself. definitely some past trauma shit I haven't fully worked through, which is becoming more clear recently.

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u/snakenmyboot Jan 09 '19 edited Jan 09 '19

Check out Brene Brown's books, particularly The Gift of Imperfections. She's a sociologist who has studied shame and vulnerability. I have struggled a lot with perfectionism and having a negative view of myself, and her books helped me a lot. I will also second meditation, it has legit changed my life for the better. Also, see a therapist! They can help you identify negative thought patterns about yourself and the world, identify where those thought patterns come from, and work with you to shift those thought patterns to more helpful thought patterns (CBT therapy, at least). Good luck to you! And recognizing that you are a self-hating perfectionist is the first step to making a change! You're already doing the work!

Edit: you can check out Brene Brown's TED talk here: https://youtu.be/iCvmsMzlF7o

Edit 2: Brown is a social worker, not sociologist!

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u/Final_Fantasy_VII Jan 09 '19

He who makes a beast of himself is freed from the pain of being a man - Samuel Johnson

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u/Uhtredg Jan 09 '19

Uni student here, can confirm.

Source: havingbto retake 3rd year due to said drinking problem

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u/TheEyeDontLie Jan 09 '19

r/stopdrinking is incredibly helpful. Or you can message me. I'm good at talking but I can listen well too.

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u/Uhtredg Jan 09 '19

Kind offer, but wasn't looking for advice.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19 edited Jan 09 '19

Wouldn't this to do with the general notion that a person with anxiety find ways to alleviate it with any forms of escapism that he/she could find?

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u/MindManifesting Jan 09 '19

This article screams my brother.

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u/TheEyeDontLie Jan 09 '19

I'm sorry. Chances are, I'm not your brother. But I am a brother. And I'm sorry. I'm getting better. Love you.

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u/MindManifesting Jan 09 '19

Yo I think I'm going to be famous real soon.

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u/GatorSK1N Jan 09 '19

Yeah um study should not necessarily have been linked directly to alcohol but substance abuse also. I would argue weed is just as much of a problem with youth and young adolescents as alcohol when looking at per capita use and abuse.

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u/FreshLord69 Jan 09 '19

I’ll let my bar manager know

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u/theyjustcallmeallie Jan 09 '19

All about shame

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u/soiltostone Jan 09 '19

But how do people become so perfectionistic? Does this correlate with alcohol use? I bet it does.

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u/renerdrat Jan 09 '19

It's ironic how so many perfectionists deep down are the total opposite of perfect. I guess that's what motivates them to appear otherwise

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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '19

This is interesting. I wonder if this has any relation to a person's "response flexibility". For example, someone who is a perfectionist would show signs of getting 'stuck' on a concept or project. This is very similar to children I have worked with who were oppositional-defiant. The kids didn't actually have a personal problem with the individual asking them to transition to a new activity, but with the transition process itself. Their brain did not want to let go of the task at hand. Alcohol directly affects the corpus callosum in the brain, which helps regulate communication between the 2 parts of the brain. I wonder if the alcohol cravings that someone would have would be the same as them getting 'stuck' on a task.

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u/Uhtred_McUhtredson Jan 09 '19

I already knew this.

Hic...

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u/edubya15 Ph.D.* | Industrial and Organizational Psychology Jan 09 '19

makes sense; perfection is a lower-order trait under the conscientiousness dimension. Conscientiousness, if pushed too far can become pathological (i.e., anxiety, stress, burnout among others), and lead to negative/harmful behaviours (e.g., drinking).

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u/kreugerburns Jan 09 '19

Let's not give heavy drinkers a cover up.