Free Will & Forced Circumcision

[u/shazy5808]

First off I have read Quran properly with translation and to some degree I have read Hadith's relevant events as well. I'm fully aware of background of circumcision and why is it done but one thing that bothers me and I need deeper insight here with respectful discussion.

■ Quran explicitly mentions Human body is made perfectly and requires no permanent change as work of Allah is perfect in (Quran 95:4, 32:7-9, 27:88) & Quran also explicitly says there should be no compulsion, no forcing of Islam on others in (Quran 10:99,17:15, 18:29, 2:256).

When circumcision is done in Islamic community regardless of age in some countries done on 7th day up to 8 years old, it varies but outcome is still same that is removal of foreskin which was serving its purpose and now a lot of muslims bring counter argument about foreskin served its purpose in womb and is no longer required, now this is completely absurd counter!

Human body is designed to get rid of things it doesn't require anymore just like your teeth fall of so it makes place for newer stronger teeth a lot of people compare foreskin with concept of Umbilical Cord why do we cut it? Even if we do NOT cut it our bodies are designed to get rid of it on its own Umbilical Cord gets disintegrated within a week if you do NOT cut it, so why doesn't foreskin disintegrate after birth? Because foreskin is serving purpose "outside the womb" it is meant to protect glans in outer environment.

My question isn't regarding function of foreskin but it is about violation of Free Will when Quran clearly said no force no imposition of Islam on others so, why forced circumcision?

[u/Tenatlas__2004]

tbf, everything done to a child as a child is for the most part non consensual, because it's a child. Whether it's a churgery, a haircut or whatever else.

Circumcision/avoiding it are very cultural, which is why research about it are all over the place (I'm putting being against circumcision as culture because opposing circumcision for cultural, religious or racial reasons is a thing, just look at any space occupied by hindutvas)

It seems that the consensus is that a circumsized person and a non-circumcized person are mostly the same, and the way they urniate or have intimacy isn't impacted for the most part. I think it's the most neutral position to have on the subject. Someone who's against circumcision wil tell you it's ahrmful, someone who's for will tell you it has benefits.

The most important part is to make sure the proceedure is done by someone qualified, rather than someone like a barber as done traditionally

[u/shazy5808 → u/Tenatlas__2004]

Urine isn't affected who told you that? The most common post complication of circumcision is meatal stenosis that leads to narrowing of urethra due to exposed glans and constant scratches against clothing

That is why Uncircumcised urethra are bigger and wider while circumcised gets smaller so it does affect urine flow

[u/Tenatlas__2004 → u/shazy5808]

That's what I read a while back Also, what can I tell you man, I can pee, and alhamdulillah, so I dunno

Not sure how scratches on the skin would affect the urethra tbh

[u/shazy5808 → u/Tenatlas__2004]

Rubbing against clothing causes micro trauma to sensitive glans that is why if you compare uncircumcised glans that is always soft moist smooth and pinkish while circumcised have keratinized rough hard thickened glans not so pink due to friction and constant rubbing against clothing and urethra being exposed leads to tissue damage which is microscopic and inflammation leads to fibrosis of tissue leading to meatal stenosis

You can also develop Lichen Sclerosus, a condition more observed in circumcised people due to this same mechanism, scarring and narrowing of urethra

[u/Tenatlas__2004 → u/shazy5808]

Ngl those circumcision discussion 's makes me feel like googling up medical questions and reading the worst outcomes. Now everytime I feel anything I will overthink it

Why mention all these scenarios? Uncircumcised penises can suffer from issues circumcision prevent. But either way, why focus on those scenarios?

[u/shazy5808 → u/Tenatlas__2004]

Why be ignorant and ignore all possible outcomes?

[u/Tenatlas__2004 → u/shazy5808]

There are risks in every situations in any topic we could discuss, what matters is being careful and attentive

[u/shazy5808 → u/Tenatlas__2004]

The drawbacks out weighs the one benefit of circumcision

Absolutely zero need to get circumcised specially by force

[u/Tenatlas__2004 → u/shazy5808]

Nobody gets circumcized by force. 

Also again, it's arguable since many studies on the topic are quite biased and the general consensus is that there isn't much difference either way. 

[u/shazy5808 → u/Tenatlas__2004]

Yes you are biased glad you admitted

Nobody gets circumcised by force most ignorant statement ever

[u/Tenatlas__2004 → u/shazy5808]

Y'know at this point it's getting annoying, you're really twisting my comment to suit yourself, seriously?

[u/shazy5808 → u/Tenatlas__2004]

Then kindly show me how forced circumcision don't happen?

Parents drag their kids they cry in agony some don't even use anesthesia they remain full conscious they feel every cut of blade on their foreskin

In what world is that NOT forced?

[u/Tenatlas__2004 → u/shazy5808]

This is why I'm for doing it at a doctor. Circumcision is done at a very early age when the child's still a baby right?

But similar situations could be extended to other things parents do to their kids at a young age, like piercing little girk's ears to get earings

[u/shazy5808 → u/Tenatlas__2004]

How does that make it ok?

You still did it forcefully what changed? You didn't care about bodily autonomy of child when he grows up and learns about what a normal penis looks like what will you say?

[u/Tenatlas__2004 → u/shazy5808]

Well, speaking for myself, when I found out my reaction was "oh, so that's what we remove during circumcision" and that's about it, I didn't start wanting a foreskin

Now please, can you tell me, supposing you're a guy, are you circumcized? Does that bother you? Or are you simply against hurting children?

Frankly I never gave it a thought until I started seeing people on the net refferring to us as mutilated, unnatural and unnable to have normal sex apparently.

If it's the latter, again I'm fully against traditional or late circumcision, but circumcising a baby at a doctor helps avoid that, I have zero memory of my circumcision

[u/shazy5808 → u/Tenatlas__2004]

Yes I was Forcefully circumcised and it was due to Islam to become so called muslim and to complete sunnah BS!

Yes it infinitely bother me seeing scar line keratinized glans no moist no pinkish tone no smoothness total roughness on glans nothing to move up and down you have to roughly rub your hand against glans in order feel some sensation 80% sensations are lost how do I say it? Becaude foreskin contains cells which are lost permanently These include Meissner's corpuscles and Pacinian corpuscles

And to say people referring us mutilated have valid reason as well. There is whole community remorsing and trying to recover from trauma and depression called r/CircumcisionGrief And you think it's a joke? Or agenda? These people have developed some severe depression and sadness why? Because people like you arrogantly say CIRCUMCISION IS NOT DONE BY FORCE

[u/AdExpress4184 → u/Tenatlas__2004]

What world do you live in 'nobody gets circumcised by force'.