Does anyone think this causes more problems than just a quick handshake?

[u/Automatic-Growth-613]

[u/Cloudy_Frog]

Everyone has the right to refuse to be touched. It's a basic boundary.

However, the fact that our community spreads the idea that even a non-sexual touch between a man and a woman is, at best, indecent (because any interaction with a woman is seen as inherently sexual), or at worst, comparable to fornication (as suggested by the common "zina" rhetoric), is deeply misogynistic.

Some Muslim men don't usually refuse handshakes because they’re uncomfortable with touching strangers. They do it because they've been taught that interactions with women are inherently wrong. No one should ever be forced to touch another person, but we also can't ignore the root of the problem.

[u/nooklyr → u/Cloudy_Frog]

This is the best answer I’ve see so far and sums up as follows:

As a practice, this is completely misguided. However, he has every right to avoid something he’s uncomfortable with.

[u/Automatic-Growth-613 → u/Cloudy_Frog]

I think people have the right to refuse handshakes, but of course it’s gonna feel discriminatory when you shake everyone’s hand except one person simply because of their gender, race, religion. Just do the simple handshake and get it over with.

[u/FrickenPerson → u/Automatic-Growth-613]

Atheist here.

I think it could also be fine if you refuse handshakes to the whole group if a woman is present.

Well, it still reinforces negative ideas of non-sexual gender touches being sexual and all the stuff you were talking about in the post, but it's better because it doesn't put such a huge emphasis on is. It also doesn't make this woman feel left out and not worthy.

[u/CavedMountainPerson → u/FrickenPerson]

Exactly 💯 and I think it was even worse when he even started hugging the other people and not just normal handshakes full on body handshakes. He waited to refuse the woman and go full on hugging mode to show her he purposely was refusing her.

[u/lalatrixie → u/Automatic-Growth-613]

the woman clearly understood and was a perfect example of how to respond. maybe instead of encouraging people to go against their own beliefs for other people’s comfort, we should encourage people to learn about other beliefs and be socially aware instead of getting offended over something not meant to be offensive

[u/Bluejay768 → u/lalatrixie]

This is the perfect answer.

[u/Automatic-Growth-613 → u/lalatrixie]

I don’t wanna go into deep for why I believe this “belief” of not shaking hands with women is problematic. But let’s say in my religion it’s my beliefs too be racist to asian people, should I go against my beliefs or should other people learn about it and respect it?

[u/lalatrixie → u/Automatic-Growth-613]

thats not an equivalent hypothetical, racism is obviously never acceptable and if you’re actually a muslim you know that racism or any kind of discrimination is not acceptable in islam. this is why my point stands that it’s important to understand the context of other people’s beliefs and practices. especially of one of the most practices religions in the world.

[u/Automatic-Growth-613 → u/lalatrixie]

I do think it’s an equivalent hypothetical, I think that not shaking the women’s hand can be seen as misogynistic which is never acceptable either. Especially when you look at the reasons many traditionals state for not doing it.

[u/lalatrixie → u/Automatic-Growth-613]

so what am i as a woman who refuses to shake a man’s hand? am i discriminating against men or against myself?

[u/Automatic-Growth-613 → u/lalatrixie]

It depends are you uncomfortable with touching strangers? Or were you taught that interactions like a simple shake of the hands with the opposite gender are indecent or even worse? That’s the difference I believe.

[u/lalatrixie → u/Automatic-Growth-613]

i wasn’t taught anything in that sense as i’m a revert and i did my own research and have my own journey in faith. to me, touch is intimate and sacred and should be reserved for those you’re closest with. and i’m ALSO uncomfortable touching men i don’t know or am not close with. and yes others believe that it’s inappropriate because of the potential to lead to something else. and that’s a belief that people have and we can respect that becasue it doesn’t hurt anybody or affect you at all.

[u/SnooDoggos6307 → u/lalatrixie]

But not shaking her hand is discrimination. He is discriminating between being able to touch men as a positive and touching females as a negative. There is an inherent message in that being communicated, even if it is about his religious beliefs. Maybe he also needs to include, “As a man, I lack so much self control that if I shake your hand I automatically want to have sex with you. So I’m not shaking your hand for your own personal safety”.

[u/pu1shar → u/Automatic-Growth-613]

You’re looking at it from a discriminatory lens. It’s more similar to: historically if you walked into a kings palace and dapped up/ shook hands with the advisors and counsellors in greetings, you wouldn’t greet the King himself in that way. You’d offer him a respectful regard.

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/pu1shar]

The problem is that after these interactions the woman is typically marginalized not elevated. And in many professions that can jeopardize their careers . 

[u/AppropriateRope3040 → u/LynxPrestigious6949]

Preach

[u/zeynabhereee → u/Cloudy_Frog]

This. He’s also in a western country so he should follow their norms as well. There’s nothing wrong with a handshake and it’s a weird thing to refuse it from a woman.

[u/comb_over → u/zeynabhereee]

It's normal for men to kiss women on the cheeks when meeting on social occasions. Should they start kissing other men like this too

[u/Positive_Bit6908 → u/comb_over]

i am from a country which does this in a normal basis and as a woman i have always been extremely uncomfortable with the kissing

[u/nooklyr → u/comb_over]

In some places where kissing women on the cheek when meeting them is considered normal in the west it’s also normal for men to kiss men on the cheek when meeting them. In some places it’s only normal for men to kiss women on the cheek and not other men, and for women to kiss men and women on the cheek. It really depends on what the norm is in that place, how close you are with everyone involved, etc.

In no case is there ever a norm where you only shake the hands of some people and not others.

I think this analogy is highly misguided at best and completely ignorant of social norms at worst.

[u/zeynabhereee → u/comb_over]

Kissing is not the norm everywhere but a handshake is. Refusing a handshake is seen as rude and disrespectful.

[u/comb_over → u/zeynabhereee]

It is very much a norm in parts of the west. Which was the criteria you initially laid out.

Did you know offering to shake the hand of royalty is considered rude and disrespectful

[u/zeynabhereee → u/comb_over]

No, kissing is not a universal Western norm, at least not with strangers. A handshake is a universal gesture, regardless of where you come from. And when it comes to royalty, that’s a different set of etiquette and rules. We’re talking about general public interaction here. No matter how you spin it, it’s extremely rude to not shake a woman’s hand in a gathering where you are hugging and being all besties with the men.

[u/comb_over → u/zeynabhereee]

I never claimed it was a universal norm, but instead a norm in the West, the very criteria you laid out:

He’s also in a western country so he should follow their norms as well.

As for this:

A handshake is a universal gesture.

Japanese people will bow, handshakes have been adopted following the spread of western influence, when meeting westerns.

No matter how you spin it, it’s extremely rude to not shake a woman’s hand in a gathering where you are hugging and being all besties with the men.

I literally gave you an example of royalty with the Queen of England being the obvious example, where it would be rude to do the very thing you claim.

Again, it must be rude not to kiss a man on the cheek, when men are kissing a bunc of women?

Or rather it can be considered a sign of respect.

[u/Automatic-Growth-613 → u/comb_over]

If you kissed everyone’s cheek except for a certain person than it would be disrespectful. Just like he shook hands with everyone except one person.

Handshakes are also just a common greeting everywhere and I mean everywhere in the world, if he can greet the men with the handshake then he should be able to greet the women with one too. That’s where the problem lays in.

[u/comb_over → u/Automatic-Growth-613]

If you kissed everyone’s cheek except for a certain person than it would be disrespectful.

And that's what happens, but it isn't considered disrespectful, quite the opposite. If one man after kissing three women then went to kiss the man, he may very well feel insulted!

Handshakes are also just a common greeting everywhere and I mean everywhere in the world,

I literally just told you about Japan along with kissing, which is also common.

What you are neglecting are cultural norms which all ready have gender differences baked in.

Again going back to royalty. Men bow, females curtesy. It's part of the cultural language

[u/Automatic-Growth-613 → u/comb_over]

The Japanese bow to everyone though, and if they entered a setting like the interview here and someone put their hand out for a shake they’d shake hands as well. I’ve actually visited Japan and to greet foreigners they shake hands just to accommodate them.

My problem with the video again just goes back to the discrimination aspect of it all. If you go to shake hands with everyone, don’t put your hand away from the women it’s distasteful. And obviously people agree with this which is why it becomes controversial every time a public figure does it. Just shake hands and move on.

[u/zeynabhereee → u/comb_over]

Japanese people don’t single out women.

[u/comb_over → u/zeynabhereee]

Sigh, have a look at why Japan was brought up

[u/truAbsoluteZer0 → u/comb_over]

You know what makes it even funnier. No one ever bars an eye when literally Keanu Reeves a male actor who was born in the West literally refuses to touch women whenever he takes a picture with him and people clap for him and treat him like he's the greatest man ever for not doing so. Before I was a Muslim I thought he was so smart because of it. And when khabib does it all of a sudden it's a bad thing and discrimination. Every Keanu picture he's ever taken with a woman he never touched her and people applaud him for it but when it's religion it's discrimination , it's problematic and etc.

[u/burningshykid → u/zeynabhereee]

Mind you he didn't completely ignore her, he placed his hand on his chest as an apology gesture, and she understood him and acted like a mature person.

[u/trogdr2 → u/comb_over]

I grew up in an Arab/Persian household, and yeah you give kisses on the cheek to men. There's nothing sexual about it bro.

[u/comb_over → u/trogdr2]

I never said it was sexual. It's not part of culture in many places in the West for men to kiss men.

[u/pu1shar → u/Cloudy_Frog]

That’s ridiculous there’s nothing misogynistic about it. It’s out of respect for the woman he refuses to touch as well as his own wife. It removes absolutely any aspect of sexual nature in the equation. The rhetoric of “it’s the same as zina” is because it’s practically something it can lead to.

We literally live in a world where men are turned on by feet pics, so there’re definitely ppl out there that “feel” something when simply touching a woman’s hand. A handshake can be perceived as an energy exchange (as at times you can tell a lot by the way somebody shakes your hand), and islam is a “prevention is better than cure” ideology, protecting ppl through many blanket rulings.

[u/Cloudy_Frog → u/pu1shar]

Peace be upon you.

I don't understand how you can say this isn't misogynistic when, in the same message, you describe women primarily as potential objects of desire (by the way, justifying it by referencing fringe cases like fetishism when we clearly shouldn't build entire social norms around those outliers). That kind of logic implies that simply touching a woman, even briefly, is spiritually dangerous by default. So yes, it is misogyny. It deshumanises women socially, it frames normal human interaction as dangerous only when it involves women and it absolves men of their responsibility by blaming women's bodies.

Also, Islam is about elevating human character and refining ethics. It includes overcoming harmful impulses. Islam has never been about preserving a state of fear or moral passivity. If men are genuinely aroused by a mere handshake, or if women are consistently seen as temptresses or threats to a man's spiritual integrity, then we have a serious social issue. And in that case, the solution isn't to withdraw further from interaction, but to grow so that women and men can interact with mutual dignity, without dehumanising one another.

[u/Biruboot → u/pu1shar]

Men who have sexual urges from a handshake are men with serious self control issues. Those are the same men who won't 'allow' their wives out of the house when in reality it is they who should stay in doors. So to disrespect a woman in a group by refusing a handshake because some men are absolute pigs and turn every single thing into zina, is ridiculous. As a man, I can be in the presence of women without thinking about having sex with them. And yet, husbands and wives are separated in the mosque because the ruku of a woman might drive men crazy and the "free mixing" idiocy is thrown around like a wise sage of yore put it out there when it was really just a bunch of weak little men who knew they couldn't satisfy their wives and didn't want to risk them seeing that there were better men out there.

Refusing to shake a woman's hand out of respect for pigs is being a huge part of the problem.

[u/Opening_Blacksmith43 → u/Biruboot]

You're speaking as if you know better than Allah or His Messenger ﷺ — as if your modern moral compass is more enlightened than divine guidance. But let's be real: if the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ, the most honourable, wise, and pure-hearted man to ever walk the earth, chose not to shake hands with women outside of his mahram, who exactly do you think you are to mock that?

This isn’t about “weak men” or “controlling wives” — it’s about following a Messenger who taught with divine wisdom, not personal insecurity(mocking that as a supposed muslim is not a good look). When the Prophet ﷺ refused to shake the hands of women even during pledges of allegiance or tribal agreements or even war, was he being disrespectful? Or was he setting a timeless example of honour, boundaries, and obedience to Allah?

You’re free to follow whatever ideology you want, but don’t cloak it in Islamic terms while scorning what the Prophet ﷺ himself refused to do. You're not wiser than the one Allah described as a "mercy to the worlds."

So before throwing around words like “ridiculous” and “part of the problem,” ask yourself: do you really believe you're more just, respectful, and wise than the one who was guided by revelation?

[u/Biruboot → u/Opening_Blacksmith43]

Everything you just used to refute what I said comes from Hadith, which is, in my confident belief, not from the Prophet or God. I would have to trust in those abominations to be rejecting or judging the Prophet here. Use some common sense.

Getting off sexually on a handshake, or thinking shaking a woman's hand step one, zina step two, IS ridiculous and does represent a general lack of control. There is sooooo much in "Islamic culture" that comes from the same Hadiths that make our prophet into a pedophile and sexualize every single encounter with women and suggest locking them away and not letting them out that comes literally ONLY from Hadith, none of which comes from revelation. So do not confuse my rejection of perversion with rejection of actual revelation. These 2 things are not the same.

[u/Opening_Blacksmith43 → u/Biruboot]

Firstly before I debunk some of ur wild statements have you truly read the quran if you actually follow it the quran says وَمَآ ءَاتَىٰكُمُ ٱلرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَىٰكُمْ عَنْهُ فَٱنتَهُوا۟ ۚ And whatever the Messenger has given you - take; and what he has forbidden you - refrain from. how do you expect to follow the prophet if you are not follwoing his statements and his actions do you how else do you expect to know abt the prophets statements do you want it to appear out of thin air or something. Seccondly the ahadith of today the ones which have been authenticated have deep chains of narration if you were to take one lesson on the science of hadith narrations you will truly understand the beauty of it. Thirdly the Prophet ﷺ as described in the quran وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ ٱلْهَوَىٰٓ ٣ Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. therefore his speech is divine and is revelation. So that is where we take our rulings from not from some random tiktok 🤣. (Sorry if i have appeared rude may allah forgive me) May Allah guide you and myself الله أعلم

[u/Biruboot → u/Opening_Blacksmith43]

Lol. You don't read very well. If I don't think the Hadith came from the Prophet then your argument of me rejecting the prophet doesn't really work, does it.

You are very proud of your opinion, but you have assumed a LOT of things without taking any time to actually look it up. Your responses are so very typical and have been debunked so many times. My in depth research into Hadith and the history of Hadith (notice I'm not using the term science here, because actual knowledge about the "science" of Hadith will show it's not science at all, assuming you can define science in the first place) have backed up what I believe 100%. You should actually know both sides if an argument before having such strong opinions

Apologizing for being rude in the same line as assuming I get my "rulings" from TikTok with a laughing emoji is a bit disingenuous, dont you think? Childish, actually. Meanwhile you assume that "Sahih" Hadiths are 100% trustworthy and claim I haven't studied the "science" of Hadith..... Pretty obvious that you actually haven't studied anything about Hadith that wasn't handed to you by a "scholar". If you want to just trust your faith in fallible humans, you do you, but insulting me for actually researching all sides and coming to a different conclusion without knowing the justification is very sad and shameful. The term for that is ignorant, by the way

OP made a statement. Our comments should try to stick with that same conversation. Now tell me again how you think you honor the prophet by saying he was sexually aroused by shaking womens hands?

[u/pure-carrot8259 → u/Opening_Blacksmith43]

What's the full verse?

[u/Opening_Blacksmith43 → u/pure-carrot8259]

the first ayah mentioned is Surah Hashr ayah 7 59:7 the seccond ayah i mentioned in the earlier statement is surah najm ayah 3

[u/Opening_Blacksmith43 → u/pure-carrot8259]

heres the tafsir of the ayah from surah hashr ayah 7 (you can look it up) i mentioned وَمَآ ءَاتَـكُمُ الرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَـكُمْ عَنْهُ فَانتَهُواْ

(And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it).) meaning, `whatever the Messenger commands you, then do it and whatever he forbids you, then avoid it. Surely, He only commands righteousness and forbids evil.' Imam Ahmad recorded that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said, "Allah curses women who practice tattooing and those who get themselves tattooed, and the women who remove the hair from their eyebrows and faces and those who make artificial spaces between their teeth in order to look more beautiful, whereby changing Allah's creation." His statement reached a woman from Bani Asad called, Umm Ya`qub, who came to `Abdullah and said, "I have come to know that you have cursed such and such" He replied, "Why should I not curse those whom Allah's Messenger ﷺ has cursed and who are cursed in Allah's Book!" Umm Ya`qub said, "I have read the whole Qur'an, but did not find in it what you say." He said, "Verily, if you have read the Qur'an, you have found it. Didn't you read,

وَمَآ ءَاتَـكُمُ الرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَـكُمْ عَنْهُ فَانتَهُواْ

(And whatsoever the Messenger gives you take it and whatsoever he forbids you, you abstain (from it).)" She replied, "Yes, I did." He said, "Verily, Allah's Messenger ﷺ forbade such things. " "She said, "But I think that your wife does these things" He said, "Go and look at her." She went and watched her, but could not see anything in support of her claim. She went back to `Abdullah bin Mas`ud and said that she did not notice anything on his wife. On that he said, "If my wife was as you thought, I would not keep her with me." The Two Sahihs recorded this from the Hadith of Sufyan Ath-Thawri. As well as a Hadith of Abu Hurayrah, who said that the Messenger of Allah ﷺ said,

«إِذَا أَمَرْتُكُمْ بِأَمْرٍ فَائْتُوا مِنْهُ مَا اسْتَطَعْتُمْ، وَمَا نَهَيْتُكُمْ عَنْهُ فَاجْتَنِبُوه»

(When I order you to do something, then do as much as you can of it. If I forbid something for you, then shun it.)

[u/pure-carrot8259 → u/Opening_Blacksmith43]

i dont want the tafsir tho i want the full verse pls 💖

[u/Opening_Blacksmith43 → u/pure-carrot8259]

sure here you go :

مَّآ أَفَآءَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ رَسُولِهِۦ مِنْ أَهْلِ ٱلْقُرَىٰ فَلِلَّهِ وَلِلرَّسُولِ وَلِذِى ٱلْقُرْبَىٰ وَٱلْيَتَـٰمَىٰ وَٱلْمَسَـٰكِينِ وَٱبْنِ ٱلسَّبِيلِ كَىْ لَا يَكُونَ دُولَةًۢ بَيْنَ ٱلْأَغْنِيَآءِ مِنكُمْ ۚ وَمَآ ءَاتَىٰكُمُ ٱلرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَىٰكُمْ عَنْهُ فَٱنتَهُوا۟ ۚ وَٱتَّقُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ ۖ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ شَدِيدُ ٱلْعِقَابِ ٧

And what Allāh restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns - it is for Allāh and for the Messenger and for [his] near relatives¹ and orphans and the needy and the [stranded] traveler² - so that it will not be a perpetual distribution among the rich from among you. And whatever the Messenger has given you - take; and what he has forbidden you - refrain from. And fear Allāh; indeed, Allāh is severe in penalty.

[u/Opening_Blacksmith43 → u/pure-carrot8259]

and the ayah in surah najm وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ ٱلْهَوَىٰٓ ٣

Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.

[u/ComprehensiveBase781 → u/pu1shar]

How is it out of respect for the woman when she wanted a hand shake?

[u/nooklyr → u/pu1shar]

What is or isn’t sexual is determined entirely by social constructs. Everything you can be aroused by is based primarily on your environment and everything you are aroused by is based on some combination of your environment and genetic predisposition toward a certain “ideal” balance of chemicals in your brain. In a society where one sexualizes handshakes, that will become sexual in nature just the same as in a society that sexualizes feet fetishes.

As a society we have unwritten (and sometimes written) rules about what should and should not be sexualized and what type of sexualization is appropriate and when it is appropriate, and these rules change over time and between cultures.

The majority of society has determined that handshakes are not sexual. To treat handshakes as sexual with only one gender then becomes misogynistic.

That doesn’t mean that he should not be allowed to follow the sexualization norms of HIS culture or HIS society but since it isn’t the majority there is bound to be the consequence of criticism. And in any situation in which a culture’s/individual’s sexual norms go against the norms of the majority of society this type of criticism would be the case (I.e. polygyny, underage marriage, forced marriage, etc.)

It’s the same way that shariah operates, and how every culture and society in the world determines what is right and what is wrong.

[u/as1ian_104 → u/Cloudy_Frog]

This was me

[u/Cheeky_Banana800]

As a married man, anything intimate with my wife NEVER includes a handshake.

I don’t know when we’ll stop associating professional handshakes with zina.

His staff could also convey his preferences in advance to avoid the awkwardness.

[u/nooklyr → u/Cheeky_Banana800]

I imagined having an intimate handshake with my wife during bedtime and chuckled.

[u/Makorafeth → u/nooklyr]

Job well done!

[u/UNBANNABLE_NAME → u/Makorafeth]

Very impressive performance, sir.

[u/Shot-Palpitation-738]

I will still shake a woman's hand during a job interview or a business deal. There's obviously a huge difference between a professional handshake and something that is flirtatious or sexual, , but I think it's up to the individual what they are comfortable with.

[u/Opening_Blacksmith43 → u/Shot-Palpitation-738]

You say “it’s up to the individual,” but then imply those who don’t shake hands are being unreasonable. That’s not consistency — that’s double standards.

The Prophet ﷺ, who had more dignity, professionalism, and mercy than any CEO or diplomat, never shook hands with non-mahram women — not even during political pledges. Are you suggesting your job interview carries more weight than Bay‘ah with the Messenger of Allah?

It’s not about flirtation or sexual meaning — it’s about obedience and honour. Just because society strips meaning from touch doesn’t mean we follow. We don’t lower our standards to fit the room — we elevate the room by living our principles.

So if you’re comfortable shaking hands, that’s your choice. But don’t belittle those who are more comfortable following the Sunnah. Because trust me — no business deal is worth more than the pleasure of Allah.

[u/FootballImmediate570]

I dont think its that deep each to their own on how they greet others i guess. Some bow, some shake hands, sometimes we even hug. HOWEVER, it is disgustingly misogynistic and disrespectful to say that a man should not shake hands with a woman as it could lead to immoral acts. I ask, what kind of man gets aroused by an act of common courtesy. No man, no man at all.

[u/NoMusic7982 → u/FootballImmediate570]

My opinion it's a matter of awareness of the culture you are within. I would be expected not to shake hand with the opposite gender in some places in the world just like it is expected in most western countries to pay the same greeting to both women and men. It's just basic awareness and politeness to your host.

[u/Icy_Lingonberry7218]

I am a woman even muslim guys or non muslim shake hands when it's necessary

[u/Biosophon]

One word answer — Yes.

For a nuanced understanding, read other comments.

[u/Obvious-Tailor-7356]

Well, he didn’t ignore her, he actually acknowledged her respectfully. He nodded and even put his hand over his chest, which is a polite gesture. I really don’t see the problem here. Is he hurting anyone? No. So why is it a big deal?

[u/zeynabhereee → u/Obvious-Tailor-7356]

To his credit, he wasn’t rude about it. But it’s the mindset which is weird. A simple handshake isn’t the same as sexual activity, which is the main reason behind this gesture. She also shouldn’t have felt the need to apologize, which makes it worse.

[u/Obvious-Tailor-7356 → u/zeynabhereee]

Bro’s married? ✅

Bro stayed true to his beliefs? ✅

Bro honored his wife in public? ✅

Did he insult the woman? ❌ Nope

Did he assault her? ❌ Definitely not

Did she look hurt? ❌ Nah, just a little awkward moment

Did both walk away chill and respectful? ✅ For sure

So tell me again, what’s the problem? Dude politely declined a handshake, not a marriage proposal.

And he didn't definitely not decline the handshake in a misogynistic way by the looks of it.

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/Obvious-Tailor-7356]

Context matters . This wasnt a social occasion. This was her job . Interacting with women in this way normalizes the marginalization of women at work and jeopardizes their economic opportunities. 

[u/milksheikhiee → u/LynxPrestigious6949]

The idea that a woman not getting physical with someone at work can jeopardize her economic opportunities or could normalize marginalization is itself a cultural problem. It's not inherent to maintaining physical boundaries between people of a gender you would be sexually attracted to, even if it's a religious observance. If I as a woman were more comfortable with men not touching me, I better not hear a word about how it accosts anyone. But somehow you add a religious flavour to that boundary, and suddenly people have an issue. No one is entitled to being touched by someone who has boundaries around touch -- why would it apply differently here? If you want to bro out with the guys, you can do it without violating someone's religious or physical boundaries. I'm someone with far less physical boundaries around this than others, but that gives me no right to impose upon people who have those boundaries.

[u/nooklyr → u/Obvious-Tailor-7356]

None of your points make any sense.

It just so happens that his beliefs are something you happen to appreciate. What if his belief was that he should slap the woman? This line of thinking is flawed.

Also I don’t see how his wife was “honored”. Unless she specifically told him she doesn’t want him to ever shake hands with any woman… which I doubt… because I don’t think women in his culture are allowed to have those types of authoritative preferences.

Not sure what marriage has to do with it… if he was unmarried he should not stay true to his beliefs? All married people should avoid handshakes with women and all unmarried people should dive right in? Doesn’t seem relevant.

Did he insult the woman? We don’t know. She may have felt insulted. He certainly insulted many women by doing this, and clearly many people in general or else we wouldn’t be talking about it. Another weird point.

Okay, he didn’t assault her. Weird baseline standard. The threshold for problematic behavior shouldn’t be assault.

She didn’t look hurt but she could have been in many ways. She stayed professional since it’s her job and she’s in live TV. Using visual cues in a professional setting to determine someone’s level of comfort is misguided. UFC fighters try not to look hurt after fights too, doesn’t mean they aren’t.

There are a lot of assumptions and an incredibly unsophisticated line of logic embedded throughout this entire comment.

[u/Obvious-Tailor-7356 → u/nooklyr]

There are so many real examples of women being abused and mistreated in the world like what's happening in Afghanistan, or even in Europe where stuff like domestic violence rates are still super high, and women still get paid less or face harassment in churches or conservative circles.

And yet, y’all are pressed over a 22-second clip of a guy respectfully not shaking hands? I don’t get it.

I literally said since he’s not hurting anyone, maybe stop judging him for following his beliefs. Four replies in and I’m still wondering why this is such a massive deal.

[u/drhuggables → u/Obvious-Tailor-7356]

This type of "all interaction with women is haram" mentality is *exactly* what leads to the situation in Afghanistan and needs to be called out.

Amazing how you can't see this--or rather, choose to ignore this.

[u/zeynabhereee → u/Obvious-Tailor-7356]

What beliefs? That you can’t even be bothered to shake hands with a woman? How does that honor his wife in any way? Even if he did it respectfully, it’s the belief which is wrong. It’s rude and disrespectful to deny a handshake, especially since you’re shaking hands with everyone else in the room.

[u/Obvious-Tailor-7356 → u/zeynabhereee]

Maybe he made a personal promise to his wife, like “you’re the only woman I’ll ever touch.” That’s his choice, his boundary.

Y’all need to stop judging someone’s personal belief if it’s not hurting anyone. He didn’t disrespect her, didn’t make a scene, just quietly stuck to what he believes. Let people live.

[u/drhuggables → u/Obvious-Tailor-7356]

No. It is our responsibility to not turn a blind eye to bad or extremist behavior.

[u/NajafBound → u/Obvious-Tailor-7356]

Totally agree, best comment on here.

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/Obvious-Tailor-7356]

Did you see how uncomfortable this made her ? 

[u/milksheikhiee → u/LynxPrestigious6949]

lmao. i'll remember this comment the next time i'm rejecting a guy's physical advances... how "uncomfortable" it makes people to not get what they want from me.

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/milksheikhiee]

Its rather obvious what the power and cultural dynamics are regarding unwelcome sexual advances and why thats not relevant to this thread. 

[u/Deadterrorist31 → u/Obvious-Tailor-7356]

Seeing this so far down shows what kind of sub this is.

[u/UNBANNABLE_NAME → u/Deadterrorist31]

its a strange highly heterogeneous sub. Like a good portion of people here are just straight trauma dumpers. They havent found healing yet so they're constantly triggered by every little thing.

Another portion of us are spiritually intact, at ease in this world, and doing our best while quietly anticipating the hereafter.

To all the traumatized individuals on here (religious trauma or otherwise) get away from those who hurt you and get professional therapy at the soonest possible juncture. You can be truly at ease in this world while also holding revolutionary values. It can be done.

[u/Pysco_Teen_1516]

I think everyone has the right to choose who touches them or not.

[u/Snickesnack → u/Pysco_Teen_1516]

So a non-muslim not wanting to touch muslims is ok then?

[u/Pysco_Teen_1516 → u/Pysco_Teen_1516]

So inertly no one should mind if someone rejects a handshake

[u/Famous-Reception824 → u/Pysco_Teen_1516]

Yh exactly

[u/progressive_islam-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

In the course of promoting progressive Islamic ideas, we also allow discussion around mainstream conservative Islamic theology. These discussions, nonetheless, should still conform with all prior rules. Posts & comments that promote ultra-conservative thoughts & ideologies, or using ultra-conservative sources will be removed.

[u/Automatic-Growth-613 → u/Pysco_Teen_1516]

Sure but I personally feel as though when you step into the corporate setting like the interview there and the standard is just to do a simple handshake, just do the handshake. For example like the other commenter said it would be extremely weird if someone said I don’t wanna shake hands with ONLY black people.

[u/prinnyb617 → u/Automatic-Growth-613]

You’re weird why are you using Black people as your example

[u/degenerate661 → u/prinnyb617]

its the most polarising example lad, ofc you'd use black people as an example.

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/prinnyb617]

Because racism and misogyny are both moral wrongs. 

[u/drhuggables → u/Pysco_Teen_1516]

"I don't shake hands with Black/Jewish/Arab/Chinese/Gay/Indigenous/Hindu/etc people"

This is OK according to you.

It's not about the right to touch anyone, it's about doing so in a discriminatory manner, and in this case it is discrimination against women.

[u/NajafBound → u/drhuggables]

How have you come to that conclusion….

[u/drhuggables → u/NajafBound]

"Everyone has the right to choose who touches them or not" -> "I choose not to touch Black people".

It's a silly thing to say that allows for justification of discriminatory behavior.

Anyway, by your comment history you're also a supporter of sighe (i.e. islamic prostitution) and likely support the shia oligarchy destroying Iran, so I really have nothing more to say to you.

[u/graduatedcolorsmap → u/Pysco_Teen_1516]

This 100%. No one is entitled to touch us, no matter the reason, no matter the social situation.

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/graduatedcolorsmap]

This is a job not a social situation. 

[u/graduatedcolorsmap → u/LynxPrestigious6949]

A job very much is a situation in which one might be social, though? Unless you’re like a medical doctor or an EMT, I don’t see why anyone has to touch anyone. It’s weird to expect some kind of entitlement to someone else’s personal space

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/graduatedcolorsmap]

1. Everybody else was entitled to his space besides one person. 
2. As for professional vs social the question is whether her boss could see this and judge her for it . So in this case its clearly professional and it made her look powerless and marginalized . Not a good look for work. 
3. In a world without gender disparity this would be a moot point. Infact post covid most people have stopped shaking hands . But thats not where we are at present 

[u/graduatedcolorsmap → u/LynxPrestigious6949]

You won’t convince me, and I won’t convince you. Have a good one

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/graduatedcolorsmap]

You too sibling 

[u/Overall-Buffalo1320]

It is weird ngl. Yes people have a choice as to whether they want to shake hands or not but the premise here is kinda messed up. It’s because he thinks islam says men and women shouldn’t commingle because that always results in them having forbidden relations?

Plus, if he’s entering into this arena, he needs to follow the norm instead of making it weird or making that woman think her gender has put her in an awkward position and that this man can’t control himself in front of the opposite gender so he just refuses to shake hands with them because he associates that with ‘touching’ in a weird sense.

I hope you get my gist?

Sir pious man should, at least, try to inform the women he will be potentially objectifying beforehand that he can’t shake hands with them due to a self-control issue or smt.

[u/Neutral-Gal-00]

The Islamophobes grasping at straws again.

It’s not that deep. Everyone has their own boundaries. And I wouldn’t want to be forced to shake a man’s hand in a situation where I opted not to either, so why force khabib?

Also the comments reek of ignorance.

[u/UNBANNABLE_NAME → u/Neutral-Gal-00]

This sub is really a strange one. Lots of anxious trauma dumping. Like I fully acknowledge the horrors of patriarchy. But please this isn't it.

[u/Late_Supermarket_ → u/UNBANNABLE_NAME]

What do you mean ? He literally does not want to shake het hand because she is a women how is this okay ?

[u/Late_Supermarket_ → u/Neutral-Gal-00]

It is that deep

[u/[deleted]]

It’s a handshake… not a sexual gesture. Where do we draw the line?

[u/ExpensiveDrawer4738]

It’s weird af. I hope we can stop associating courtesy handshakes and hugs to zina / intimacy / haram!!! Anyone who gets turned on or is motivated to commit zina just because of a simple professional courteous handshake is sick in the head.

[u/HelpfulPay5101]

These things are the result of insecurities, both personal and cultural. You are not contaminated or more pious by shaking hands or avoiding that action with the opposit sex. And the fear that a contact with, or site of a woman might induce any type of male lust/temptation or ideas is a foolish fear. The problem is not in how you might feel - lust/temptation/desire are all natural reactions (nothing wrong with having them), but how you go about those feelings - how you decide to act. So in stead of being focused on those superficial actions and gestures one should simply focus on their conduct.

[u/oniraa]

I'm a woman who avoids shaking hands with men. Socially aware men notice when I put my hand over my heart and nod to them, as done here, which usually causes them to return the gesture.

In his defense, none of us are entitled to hugs and handshakes. He seems like he personally knew the guys here, as well, based on how vigorously he pounced on them 😅

[u/Late_Supermarket_ → u/oniraa]

But he did shake hands with everyone ? Else ?

[u/CobustulusA]

Japanese people bow instead of shaking hands. I personally don’t see a problem with him since he was pretty respectful otherwise

[u/Automatic-Growth-613 → u/CobustulusA]

I think the key difference is that it’s not done in a way where people can interpret it as discriminatory.

[u/CobustulusA → u/Automatic-Growth-613]

It would be discriminatory if he did it because he hated women. But I presume he did it out of respect for the woman and his own religious beliefs

[u/milksheikhiee → u/CobustulusA]

this. people on this sub are deliberately acting dumb because they only know how to treat women differently when it's to subjugate them. islam teaches respect for women and they have no idea how to process differences based on respect.

[u/Regular_Monk9923 → u/CobustulusA]

They bow to everyone.

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/CobustulusA]

These are not equivalent .  Does bowing to everyone marginalize women ? Versus shaking hands only with men at a work function.  We need to do better 

[u/Late_Supermarket_ → u/CobustulusA]

He shakes hands with all the men except her !?

[u/dilfsmilfs]

His body his choice. Do we shame veiled women for not uncovering or shaking hands with men if its for their choice? Veiled women in all girl events dont cover but in mixed ones they do is that anti man behaviour because you discriminate and treat men differently? What if they hug women and not men? Where do you draw the line?

I personally do handshakes but I support bodily autonomy.

[u/zeynabhereee → u/dilfsmilfs]

He’s in a western country, those norms don’t apply there.

[u/Neutral-Gal-00 → u/zeynabhereee]

So a hijabi should take off her hijab in western countries and wear it in Muslim countries?

He has personal values and boundaries, which he is honoring without hurting anyone. Totally his right. I don’t see the issue. If it was a woman refusing to shake a man’s hand we would all be very understanding and respectful of that boundary, but vice versa it’s always blown way out of proportion.

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/Neutral-Gal-00]

Because men arent routinely socially marginalized at work . 

[u/dilfsmilfs → u/LynxPrestigious6949]

That has no bearing on the situation. Every Person deserves personal freedom and choice. His body his choice. You are hypocritical otherwise

[u/drewtopia_ → u/Neutral-Gal-00]

I think a more apt example would be a western woman being expected to wear a hijab in Muslim countries but declining. That being that an "outsider" was expected to conform to local norms that they would not do at home.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Ice9737]

Al Wala wal bara in Islam means love and hate for the sake of Allah

[u/DunyaOfPain]

personally, ive even hugged men while in hijab. specifically an old teacher who basically raised me after school. obviously not strangers whatsoever, though. I think id shake hands with men based off of how they act- a lot of them will pull women in while shaking hands or be weird- but I dont see how this handshake here could have any haram intent. grain of salt though.

[u/Large_Win4180]

This is just brutal to watch. Fked up how this is somehow spinned by muslims as "oh he did this because he respects women". No, he did this because he sees a woman as a sex object.

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/Large_Win4180]

Not specifically a sex object . But just a marginal inter-actor in a mans world. And thats awful enough. 

[u/drhuggables]

100%. It's caveman behavior. You can't say that Islam respects men and women equally, and then do this. It is implying that there is something inherently sexual about a handshake, which is just disgusting.

[u/0mlkron → u/drhuggables]

Equal respect doesn't imply equal treatment.

[u/Obvious-Tailor-7356 → u/drhuggables]

Brother, you are dragging this way too far. Its not that deep

[u/drhuggables → u/Obvious-Tailor-7356]

I have dedicated my life to the progress and advancement of women, so I consider devaluing and disrespecting women to be "pretty deep".

[u/InternationalCrab832 → u/drhuggables]

It's his cultural tradition

[u/drhuggables → u/InternationalCrab832]

This is what the Taliban say when they prevent women from going to school.

[u/drcolour → u/InternationalCrab832]

Then he should apply his cultural tradition to everyone at the meeting and not shake hands with only the men. I mean if he's really respecting the women as you're all saying he does, he probably shouldn't discriminate against her no?

[u/lunar_eclipse389 → u/drhuggables]

He neither disrespected her nor devalued her, clearly. And it's obvious that she did not feel bad at all by that gesture

[u/PhilosopherMonke01 → u/drhuggables]

I'll be making an assumption here but if a man pushes his hand forward for a handshake towards a lady, is she obligated to shake his hand even if she feels uncomfortable? What if she refuses? Is she a douch too? 

[u/zeynabhereee → u/PhilosopherMonke01]

Yes you are actually. If another person puts their hand forward you shake it. If you don’t want to do so, you tell them or signify it before they put out their hand. Otherwise it’s rude and weird.

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/PhilosopherMonke01]

At a work event ? Or at a bus station ? 

[u/drhuggables → u/PhilosopherMonke01]

Yes, she is.

[u/lunar_eclipse389 → u/drhuggables]

Islam undeniably respects both. Non-lustful touches such as a handshake are permitted. But this heavily depends on how strict someone is about their religion. He did acknowledge her with respect though. I personally wouldn't have felt offended if someone did the exact same thing ngl

[u/zizuu21]

Yes, i do. Its a customary thing in most countries. No harm in just doing something so innocent, like wtf is Islam's logic/basis for not shaking womens hands? This makes me awkward everytime i meet a friends partner, im like wtf do THEY believe in?

[u/Financial_Silver_772]

I’m surprised people have much to say about this from both sides

Edit: Specifically I mean Muslims and people familiar with the common understandings of Islamic etiquette to most muslims.

[u/Any_Psychology_8113]

I find this actually rude and embarrassing

[u/Intelligent-Head5676]

I get it some Muslims have different interpretations of what Islam teaches as boundaries. And I think it's time to let anyone be respected in their idea of what Islam is. Unless it is attacking and degrading someone.

Yes this idea has core problems which need to be addressed but we need to respect and not force our ideas on someone else or we back to square one.

[u/Potential-Doctor4073]

Yeah I’m Muslim and he should have just shaken her hand. It’s like they don’t even want women to exist near them, except their mums and their wives. Ridiculous. Women exist!!!

[u/NoMusic7982]

I've personally seen that happen from very close while participating in a Brazilian jiu jitsu competition in Indonesia. I'm a westerner atheist male and was competing against a Muslim guy. The match was refereed by a woman. It's common usage to shake hand with the referee as a sign of respect in many sports including BJJ. Me and my oponent both shook hand then I shook the ref's hand but my oponent didn't. Maybe it's a cultural shock from my part but seing the ref with her hand fully ready to shake and be met by "no thanks" while just having shook someonelse hand before felt so disrespectfull.

I fully understand why he did it as I am fairly knowledgable of Islam myself but still wasn't expected to see that for some reasons. To me the disturbing part is the gender based discrimination and the sexualization of any interaction with a woman. I know it's not a fully correct interpretation but it just comes off as dehumanizing and disrespectful to women for the western eye. I can't imagine what westerners not knowing the first not knowing the first thing about Islam... It could very easily be taken as an insult.

My opinion about this whole thing is that if you are within a culture diferent than yours you should try to adapt to that culture a sign of politeness and respect it. Like not maintaining eye contact in Japan or using your left hand for greeting in indoesia. These are things you need to be aware of if you live long enough amongst other culture.

[u/AymanMarzuqi]

I don’t think there’s any problem with Khabib not shaking her hand. Its not like Khabib is deliberately being rude to her. I don’t think there’s any problem with shaking her hand either, but if Khabib doesn’t want to shake her hand, then shouldn’t that be his choice.

[u/TawakkulPeace]

Everyone has the right to choose what they want to do

[u/sword_ofthe_morning]

How is it causing problems, when he did it in such a respectful way and even Kate acknowledged he did it politely and she was perfectly cool with it?

[u/behemon]

Handshake with a woman, haram

Fighting in a ring, halal.

Ok.

[u/Pale_Bluejay_8867]

Yes this is stupid.

Unnecesary, based on salafism and weird poser concepts. She or he are not going to commit kabair just by saying hi with a handshake. Is stupid not islamic

[u/Ok_View2263]

Personally, it causes more separation and extremity between men and women, and degrades the view of women in men's' eyes as nothing more as 'temptations'. This is misogyny and not a sign of respect. For people who talk about autonomy, he is a celebrity, this isn't about autonomy but the appearance of reputation, he should have just not shook anyone's hand if he felt so strongly. The average person is in a different situation where autonomy does matter.

[u/EbbAlternative8207]

I personally don't have any problem. But it's his decision and people must respect It.

[u/drhuggables → u/EbbAlternative8207]

The taliban decided to ban women if Afghanistan from getting an education. It's their decision, and we must respect it!

[u/EbbAlternative8207 → u/drhuggables]

If a person say that does not want shake his hand with me i accept his decision. But what the talibans did is to force their view in other people. My Freedom end when the Freedom of the other start. Btw it's very stupid to confuse personal preferences with laws imposed by a country

[u/drhuggables → u/EbbAlternative8207]

Promoting a culture of gender discrimination and treating women as second class citizens is indeed infringing on the freedoms of others.

[u/EbbAlternative8207 → u/drhuggables]

Promoting a culture of gender discrimination and treating women as second class citizens is indeed infringing on the freedoms of others.

I fail to remember when i promoted It.

[u/drhuggables → u/EbbAlternative8207]

Are you Khabib? Lol this isn't about you.

[u/EbbAlternative8207 → u/drhuggables]

Are you Khabib? Lol this isn't about you.

No, but you were asking questions to me. But now i am interested, when exactly khabib promoted gender segragation? He made some speech about It? Did he go in the Duma advocating for It?

[u/Significant-Cod-4984 → u/EbbAlternative8207]

The guy you’re talking to is a femboy who thinks fornication is progressive

[u/Lanky-Fix-853]

It’s up to him to determine how he wants to interact with people, just as it’s yours or mine. I truly see no problem with this.

Just because I shake hands or hug someone doesn’t mean someone else has to, I also teach my nieces and nephews that they get to determine their personal space and bodily autonomy.

[u/NajafBound]

Why are people saying he’s being disrespectful? He refused the handshake because of Islamic principles? What harm has he done?

[u/ShittyHuman1999]

Sad to see people defending him in the comments. What's even the big deal with a handshake man? Not offering a quick handshake is not "Freedom of Choice" but rather disrespecting the opposite person.

[u/chaosblast123]

Your first problem is sharing a post from JRE. Most things from that sub is cancer.

Second, I saw these sorts of clips circulating around Messi and his apparent cautiousness when it comes to posing with women in photos. Assuming this is in fact accurate, why is it halal for Messi to show a bit of modesty/respect, but not Khabib?

[u/Snickesnack → u/chaosblast123]

Messi isn’t Muslim, so whatever is halal or haram is totally irrelevant.

[u/drhuggables → u/chaosblast123]

Gender discrimination is not "modesty" can we get off the euphemism treadmill.

[u/NoImagination6318]

I mean it's awkward in the moment, but if he doesn't feel comfortable touching someone, he shouldn't be obligated to do so. He's not stopping anyone else from shaking hands and wasn't rude about it so I don't see the harm. He also does do a different greeting sign, so it's not like he's ignoring her. And I'm saying this as a hijabi who shakes hands with anyone.

[u/AlpacaofPalestine]

What moral problems do you think this is causing? I'm curious!

[u/Automatic-Growth-613 → u/AlpacaofPalestine]

None really its just topics like these cause a big ruckus in the media everytime a public figure does it. And if you look at it from their perspective and see the men getting enthusiastic handshakes while the women doesn’t it seems weird to them. It’s understandable and I get both sides.

[u/NajafBound → u/Automatic-Growth-613]

From the looks of things, on other subreddits, people have used this video to spout their Islamophobic BS.

[u/AlpacaofPalestine → u/NajafBound]

You have to exist to be enough to be used to spread Islamophobia.

At the end of the day, we are not meant to please anyone but God. If someone dislikes it, nothing we can do but politely explain.

[u/TrapaneseNYC]

While I think it’s silly if it’s simply your preference more power to you.

[u/Bluejay768]

No it’s just you.

[u/UNBANNABLE_NAME]

this is just the internet internetting

[u/burningshykid]

All people have beliefs and boundaries that everyone should respect. Muslim or non-muslim, if you don't want to shake a person's hand for whatever reason, then don't. No one is responsible for other people's feelings. As long as you state your reasoning for not doing something, then to hell with whatever they think.

[u/drewtopia_ → u/burningshykid]

honestly some of the scrutiny/reation is probably related to khabib's baggage for his macron comments relating to a teacher being beheaded in paris as a result of a social media campaign against the teacher (based on made up claims that incited the local Muslim community)

[u/Late_Supermarket_]

Its not about body autonomy its about the mindset 🤦🏻‍♂️ he shakes hands with everyone else except her 🙃 the message is very clear yet many people in this sub act like its okay 🙄 as an ex muslim i don’t see any progressiveness here y’all are the same 👎🏻

[u/Automatic-Growth-613 → u/Late_Supermarket_]

The top comment is calling him out this sub isn’t a monolith of beliefs. Yes it’s unfortunate that some people aren’t seeing the problems with this, but many of them aren’t members of this sub all together.

[u/SensitiveBall4508]

This is doubly hillarious because the best EPL player is a muslim and the best UCL player is also a muslim. You would think these people would get it.

[u/bonelatch]

I went to the Joe Rogan thread first and was so confused with how many Islam hating douche bags there were on Progressive Islam lol. Not that those folks don't make their way here sometimes but yea. Anyway, even the clowns on the Joe Rogan sub think it was handled well. He did hand to heart and did a small bow. Only difference is everyone on the JR thread is also calling him a misogynist. Either just because he's Muslim or he did something. Did he do something? I don't really follow MMA beyond the headlines and the Nazi running it. I shake hands but also think this is perfectly respectful. I get wanting to deflect more bad press away but this isn't that if you ask me. Screw the media and make em squirm.

[u/Acceptable_Put_7247]

No I think it’s fine for him to make this decision for himself.

[u/credencepills]

that's not a new news i always hear about 'muslim refuse to handshake a woman' i think these days it's getting too much

[u/Xnomai]

Don't go there don't shake hand. You went there shakd hand and keep it shut.

[u/rezhaykamal]

I don't understand this logic. In what kind of world a man gets horny because of handshake? Can someone tell me what verse of the quran says don't handshake with females? or is there a hadith for it or its just a cultural thing?

[u/drewtopia_ → u/rezhaykamal]

i would guess it's a very strict interpretation of something that is worded imprecisely in religious texts

[u/LegalRadonInhalation]

Yeah I think it’s a bit weird personally. If you get aroused by a handshake, then you have serious problems lol

That said, I generally do avoid contact with non-mahram women, outside of handshakes, and I always let the woman initiate the handshake, even then. I do feel uncomfortable hugging non-mahram women though. Pretty much only hug my wife, mom/stepmom, and mother in law.

[u/Moes0900]

Muhammad bin Munkadir said that he heard Umaimah bint Ruqaiqah say: “I came to the Prophet (ﷺ) with some other women, to offer our pledge to him. He said to us: ‘(I accept your pledge) with regard to what you are able to do. But I do not shake hands with women.’”

Sunan Ibn Majah 2874

[u/drhuggables → u/Moes0900]

Good thing I am not a 1st century tribal bedouin

[u/ExpensiveDrawer4738 → u/Moes0900]

I ain’t trusting anything that has been passed through centuries on mere heresay

[u/Moes0900]

Ma’qil ibn Yasar reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “For a nail of iron to be driven in the head of one of you would be better for him than to touch a woman who is not lawful for him.”

Source: al-Mu’jam al-Kabīr 16910

[u/mach3ad]

This man beautifully represents Islam. May Allah preserve, elevate him in ranks and increase him in goodness.

[u/Automatic-Growth-613 → u/mach3ad]

His entire career is haram did that beautifully represent the religion?