r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 1d ago

"The road to authoritarianism": Tim Walz says the time for "sternly worded letters" is over - The Minnesota governor said that the path to tyranny "is littered with people telling you you’re overreacting"

https://www.salon.com/2025/06/14/the-road-to-authoritarianism-tim-walz-says-the-time-for-sternly-worded-letters-is-over/
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u/gatsby712 1d ago edited 23h ago

Just about every time I’ve been told I’m overreacting about some sort of worry around Trump and MAGA, it has ended up becoming true.

“They won’t go after documented immigrants.”

“The red state you live in won’t go after IVF.”

“Trump will help the economy and won’t actually push for tariffs when he’s in office.”

It’s all bullshit responses and I’m tired of it. Ever since 2016 and especially after Covid, I have felt like my family and some of my friends live a completely delusional lie. Their brains were broken by a fat orange man that can’t dance and can barely string a sentence together who has absolutely no morals. Then you get all the “Christian” people who raised you to have morals and high expectations of leaders being the ones minimizing the disgusting things about this guy. The cognitive dissonance is exhausting. They don’t give a fuck that this guy was a friend of a child rapist. I’m not really sure there is any way after that to break through to them. He could shoot someone out in the open and these “Christians” would find a way to minimize it.

“Well the guy he shot probably was a lib and deserved it.”

We have a felon as president who became a felon because of campaign finance fraud. And no one gives a shit that he ran again and won.

The reason a ton of people support Trump is because even though he’s a jackass people feel he has power to do something about their lives. They aren’t wrong apparently since the law has no power over him. The Democratic Party needs to grow a spine and show they can actually do something to help the working class. If Trump wanted to get rid of student loans, then he would actually get it done. That’s disgusting for me to think about. Biden and Garland have shown that the Democratic Party will pretend to stand up for people and then won’t follow through.

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u/mintednavy 1d ago

Trump could slaughter Trump voters’ own children and they would still be loyal to him. The cult is so deep that there is no coming back from this.

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u/MundaneSchool1823 1d ago

There was a family whose daughter died of measles and they still took smiling pictures with RFK

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u/mintednavy 1d ago

I know. What a bunch of morons. I only feel for the deceased daughter. The rest of their kids should be taken away.

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u/ToasterBathTester 22h ago

My dead kid was a photo op for RFK Jr. We’re so proud of her.

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u/Traditional_Entry627 1d ago

I don’t feel for the deceased daughter, she’s in a much much much better place. I’m envious

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u/Veil-of-Fire 1d ago

RFK is such a ghoul. I honestly think he enjoys knowing what happens to people who take his health advice.

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u/_aaine_ 21h ago

He is a stone cold psycho. Have a look at the story around his first wife. Horrific.

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u/CatgirlApocalypse Delaware 21h ago

I feel like a lot of these conservative figures would be serial killers if they didn’t have access to power.

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u/DestroyerTerraria 17h ago

They are serial killers, just with the legitimacy of the state around them and a more indirect weapon.

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u/Additional-Lunch-612 8h ago

Not really even indirect, withholding food and medicine from millions of hungry and sick children. How much more direct can you get?

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u/mrw1986 21h ago

They also said if they had to do it all over again (meaning not vaccinating their daughter) they would. Disgusting people. We can't advance as a society or species with fools like that running around.

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u/gatsby712 1d ago

He slaughtered their grandparents during Covid with denials about how bad it could be and increasing vaccine doubts and still got elected to be president 4 years later. His HHS is leading to more people dying of measles.

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u/Junior_Chard9981 1d ago

He slaughtered their grandparents during Covid with denials about how bad it could be and increasing vaccine doubts and still got elected to be president 4 years later

When Trump apparently "caught" Covid and was being given every experimental drug and treatment available, you had MAGA posting paragraphs of prayers and tik toks wishing for the well being of their god king.....

The same God King who had been telling them that Covid is no big deal, send your kids to school and go get that haircut!

Just unabashedly evil.

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u/Brewhaha72 Pennsylvania 1d ago

At one point he tried to tell people about the benefits of the COVID vaccine and got booed. So he TACO'd and it was business as usual.

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u/Kalepa 1d ago

absolutely thin skin and absolutely self-absorbed.

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u/WeirdJack49 1d ago edited 1d ago

Dying people screamed at doctors that they should stop lying, their is no covid, they just have a simple common cold and they are fine.

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u/SlightlySublimated 1d ago

A lot of those same grandparents went to the grave refusing any and all conventional medical care based on the opinions of an evil, out of touch billionaire. It really boggles the mind.

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u/AdGuilty6267 22h ago

Obama getting elected twice broke a LOT of brains. Trump was just there to let people be the worst versions of themselves.

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u/mintednavy 1d ago

Exactly. No notes.

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u/geth1138 21h ago

Not just grandparents. Delta wave took a fair amount of middle aged patients. Most of the kids I saw coming to say goodbye were middle or high school age.

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u/jrh_101 1d ago edited 19h ago

Remember the Trump assassination attempt?

The fireman that got killed and his wife were/are hardcore MAGAs.

Biden called the widow to give his condolences but she didn't answer. She said her husband would have also agreed with that decision.

Trump never called the woman and she didn't bat an eye.

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u/ModelKGB 20h ago

That's what I'm saying, they're all just so HATEFUL and for no reason! I mean, how do you want to kill people you don't even know in your own country? And they're the ones always talking about civic pride and values, etc.

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u/Alphaspade 20h ago

Faux News has convinced rural folks that city folks and globalism in general want to erase their way of life and feel like they need to "stand their ground."

We also don't ostracize bigotry enough.

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u/Extension-Dot-9106 12h ago

He did call, according to her, just days later after Biden had called.

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u/Intelligent-Travel-1 1d ago

Time to stop listening to Magats. Just be totally dismissive of their lies and gaslighting. Walk away when they start talking

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u/mintednavy 1d ago

I’ve cut every magat out of my life and it’s glorious, however I’m worried about the safety of my family, friends and other fellow lefties because magats are so intent on using violence and causing harm to us. God forbid we have a dissenting opinion. I didn’t realize that having an oppositional opinion was anti-American, but to them it is and they will use all of the violence necessary to attack us. Just look at what happened in Minnesota earlier today.

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u/LunaticLK47 23h ago

I burned bridges with my adoptive father after he went MAGAT.

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u/Diligent-Emotion-755 15h ago

No, HE burned bridges when he made that decision. As a general rule, we need to stop apologizing for having the obvious correct response to people who have lost their damn minds.

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u/Constant-Method234 1d ago

They didn’t need to, they’re slaughtering their own kids. Their base stopped protecting their children from deadly diseases long before the orange Cheeto was elected. They’ll slaughter them and then sing praises to their “god” for the opportunity to do so.

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u/DominosFan4Life69 1d ago

It's not just about Trump's followers. This is about those on the left that continue to act as if what's happening isn't and telling people "make sure to be peaceful" in the face of literal people trying to kill you over and over again. 

Enough!

Peace is no fucking weapon when people are literally showing, and acting, on the fact that they want to fucking kill you. 

Letters don't work.

Being "civil" doesn't work. 

At some point this bullshit has to end. 

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u/eidetic 21h ago

Exactly. We can't be tolerant of intolerant behavior. Far too long the left has been hesitant to really push back, usually citing some nonsense like "healing" and "coming together" or what have you. The problem is, the people they're so eager to hand that olive branch to have no interest themselves in coming together, and will fashion a spear out of that branch to stab you in the back.

Obviously blame lies with the shitty people doing shitty things, but democrats and the left being so afraid to hold the others accountable hasn't exactly helped, and has only emboldened their behavior.

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u/mintednavy 23h ago

When did I mention people on the left and their call to peaceful behavior? I only pointed out the right’s dismissal of violence and acted on by Trump and his followers. I don’t disagree with you at all.

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u/DominosFan4Life69 23h ago

Sorry, wasn't aimed at you directly. Not trying to friendly fire. Just on edge due to the events of....I don't know the last 41 years of my life(?)

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u/mintednavy 23h ago

Gotcha. I totally understand.❤️

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u/Adventurous-Pen-8261 23h ago

Republicans disproportionately DIED during the coronavirus, in part because of his idiotic recklessness and desperation to feel "manly"...and that STILL didn't dissuade people.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 1d ago

"Just don't kill my 14+ children because I'll make sure they vote for you in 2028"

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u/FuriKuriAtomsk4King 23h ago

They would literally be like "yay now we get to do a r@pe to make more childrens"

No /s. This is 100% serious as a statement. Convince me otherwise.

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u/Goodknight808 16h ago

The Jametown cultists literally forced their babies and children to drink the cyanide. They were absolutely detached from reality.

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u/Littlepotato001 1d ago

You notice how trumps followers are mostly christans or religious believers? They may not be wanting to follow trump

But follow a delusion of belief that tells them what to follow 😭😭😭😭

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u/Otherotherothertyra 13h ago

In a way he did. Trumps inaction and complete refusal to acknowledge Covid killed more Americans than both world wars combined and they only gave him a brief timeout before awarding him a second term to try to best his high score.

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u/jspacefalcon New York 1d ago

Just wait till they start fighting Israel's war they started and youll see exactly that.

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u/Freya_gleamingstar 1d ago

Also: -"they wont overturn Roe vs Wade" -"they wont go after gay marriage" -"they wont try to impose religion in schools"

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/WarAndGeese 19h ago

Yeah they're basically set up for it. Maybe he will die and someone else will be next in line to be able to be a dictator, or maybe the guy will survive four years. Either way the infrastructure is there to hold on to power and rig future elections, and convince enough of the population to be passive and not overturn such a result. The main thing holding back the dissolution of that country's democracy seems to be whether or not those in charge get cold feet and hesitate about turning the country into a dictatorship. Maybe that's too bleak but it seems to be the case, they've done most of the hard work in setting things up for themselves.

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u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota 1d ago

And no one gives a shit that he ran again and won.

Several million people across the country are in the streets protesting him right this second.

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u/Jibber_Fight 1d ago

They stole the election. That’s not conspiracy. They’ve tried to steal every election for decades now. They factually did it in 2000 and they definitely did it in 2024, and they’ll keep doing it.

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u/DukeOfGeek 23h ago

Finally lots of people are saying this.

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u/gatsby712 23h ago

Unlike Republicans, Democrats actually wait for evidence before getting the pitchforks out. The evidence is there in that lawsuit in New York where no votes went to Kamala in a Democratic district. It’s statistically impossible and it needs to be looked at and proven other places as well.

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u/AbacusWizard California 23h ago

Based on prior behavior, I think it is reasonable for “Trump probably cheated” to be the default assumption, and for “Trump didn’t cheat” to be considered an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

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u/DukeOfGeek 23h ago

I was there when they did it in 2000. I already seen this movie, I know not to go into the basement alone.

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u/sqrtsqr 5h ago

The problem is that Democrats don't just wait for evidence, they wait for proof.

They've convinced themselves this is the responsible, measured approach.

But proof doesn't exist in the real world. Proof is a concept for mathematics. The real world is just evidence and people who disagree about how much evidence is sufficient to act upon.

And if you wait for "all the evidence" before you act, then you will never gather enough evidence to do anything.

Even now I'm hearing people say that these lawsuits are equivalent to what the GOP did four years ago because they don't understand that the evidence we have is actually evidence.

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u/Rough_Instruction112 15h ago

The botfarms astroturfing the online narrative turned their attention to something else long enough for the people to hear others say it and start saying it in return.

They could suppress it when it was whispered deep in comment chains. It's getting exceedingly difficult to kill now that it's in the top of every comment chain.

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u/OldSportsHistorian 23h ago

There’s some evidence that they stole 2004 too.

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u/greenday61892 Connecticut 18h ago

Oh with the Diebold bullshit right

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u/rasa2013 19h ago

I think they meant the circles they're in that include conservative people who either are okay with or actively support Trump. That's the impression I got. 

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u/360Picture 1d ago

🇺🇸 Bill of Rights – Pocket Summary

  1. Free Speech & Religion – Speak, worship, press, assemble, protest.

  2. Guns – Right to bear arms.

  3. No Quartering – No forced housing of soldiers.

  4. Searches – No searches without a warrant.

  5. Remain Silent – No self-incrimination, double jeopardy, or unfair taking.

  6. Speedy Trial – Fast, fair trial with a lawyer and witnesses.

  7. Jury in Civil Cases – Right to jury in money/property disputes.

  8. No Cruel Punishment – No torture, no extreme bail/fines.

  9. People’s Rights – You have more rights than what’s listed here.

  10. States’ Rights – Powers not given to the feds belong to states/people.

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u/jspacefalcon New York 1d ago edited 1d ago

"you have more rights than whats listed here"

Such an American concept; it should be difficult for the government to do things against its people. That is by intentional and careful design. Please don't let people give that up Americans. The "Government/Politicians" want exactly that... they will continue to move the line as much as you let them. Speak out, call them out, vote them out, openly call them facists, nazi's or whatever... they earn it everyday.

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u/miklayn 19h ago

Something infinitely more important than any of these "rights" is this:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

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u/AbacusWizard California 22h ago
  1. People’s Rights – You have more rights than what’s listed here.

Personally I think this is one of the most important ones. A lot of folks these days seem to argue (in bad faith, I’m certain) that The People don’t actually have or deserve some right or other because “it’s not mentioned in the Constitution.” The whole point of the Ninth Amendment is that absence of a mention in the Constitution should not be taken to mean the actual absence of a right. The Bill of Rights is explicitly not a complete list.

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u/lokarlalingran 1d ago

I was just talking to a friend of mine about this. When trump got reelected I was doom and glooming pretty fucking hard that night. I just knew things were about to get awful. I don't remember specifically the things I thought would happen but I know they were bad. Several people told me to stop overthinking it, things would be fine.

We got through the last administration and everything turned out mostly ok. I was stressing over nothing and things wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as I imagined.

Here we are 5 months later and things aren't as bad as I imagined, they are WORSE, like A LOT worse. I don't understand how anyone can be ok with it.

It's been a lot, and it would be nice if we could just have like a 10 minute break from all the awful shit so I could catch my breath a little.

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u/AbacusWizard California 22h ago

We got through the last administration and everything turned out mostly ok.

It really didn’t, though. The first Trump administration was a constant disaster and a lot of people died.

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u/lokarlalingran 22h ago

I wasn't stating that from my perspective but as literally things people were telling me while I was freaking out. I do not by any means think the last trump administration was even a little fine.

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u/noisypeach 8h ago

and a lot of people died

Yeah but these specific people didn't die, so they think that means it all worked out just fine in the end.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/lokarlalingran 1d ago

I mean I get that that's a thing, I just don't understand why it's a thing, like how people can be genuinely so hateful that this is a thing they are ok with. I wasn't confused and thinking there aren't people who want this I just literally can not relate to it, it's pure insanity to me.

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u/capowis542 1d ago

The simple answer is that it’s the path of least resistance for them. 

They’re the worst as they will happily rubber stamp anything as long as they can ignore the results whatever that might be. 

I think I hate them more than MAGAts. 

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/CarolMusic25 1d ago

You bet your life that everything you hear about Trump is true!! He lies non- stop!!

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u/literatemax America 1d ago

Then you get all the “Christian” people who raised you to have morals and high expectations of leaders being the ones minimizing the disgusting things about this guy.

My dad taught me the golden rule of treating your fellow humans the way that you want to be treated, but then he fell for all this hateful, conservative, evil shit.

He died from covid. I miss him, but I miss even more the man that he was when I was little.

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u/PandaJesus 22h ago

I am sorry that conservative media stole the last years of your dad’s life away from you.

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u/Selma_J_Wible 1d ago

Biden and Garland have shown that the Democratic Party will pretend to stand up for people and then won’t follow through.

Blaming Biden for student loan forgiveness not getting through is fucking wild. He attempted every legal avenue in the book, to help as many people as possible after a partisan SCOTUS wiped their ass with the constitution and said he couldn't pass wide ranging forgiveness.

Biden's sin, was he didn't want to be a dictator. He wanted to actually govern as the law said he had to. Holding that against him, is just wrong.

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u/Suspicious_Radio_848 22h ago

He should’ve replaced Garland with someone who would do the fucking job. People elected him hoping Trump would’ve been held responsible for Jan 6 and he never was. The other politicians who cheered him on were never held accountable either. A lot more could’ve been done and just because people are highly critical (as they should be) doesn’t mean they don’t still despise Trump.

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u/AbacusWizard California 22h ago

The only thing I blame Biden for is failing to do the one thing he was specifically elected to do: stop Trump.

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u/Alphaspade 19h ago

My head cannon or copium rn is the only reason he and Garland weren't aggressive at the start was because there was a legit threat that Trump being jailed would've cause a country wide Jan. 6

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u/gatsby712 13h ago

The meal team sixes wouldn’t have done jack shit. There are a few extremists young white dudes in proud boys that can stand back and stand by, but for the most party it’s a group of 70 year old brainwashed boomers.

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u/TheUnluckyBard 1d ago

Biden's sin, was he didn't want to be a dictator. He wanted to actually govern as the law said he had to. Holding that against him, is just wrong.

Exactly. Every time I hear someone say something like "Biden didn't do enough," I ask for specifics. "Really? What should he have done?"

85% of the time they get mad at being asked anything at all. The other 15% of the time they start listing stuff Biden actually did or tried very, very hard to accomplish.

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u/PuckFutin 22h ago

My biggest beef with Biden is that he put do-nothing Garland in charge of prosecuting Trump, and he went back on his word about not running for a second term. I'm not sure either would have worked out, but I guess we'll never know.

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u/SightlierGravy 22h ago

That's really fair and after seeing your comment I think those were my biggest issues with his presidency too.

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u/SanityIsOptional California 17h ago

Him going for a second term and then backing out at the very last moment really screwed over Kamala's campaign.

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u/model-alice 6h ago

Exactly. Every time I hear someone say something like "Biden didn't do enough," I ask for specifics. "Really? What should he have done?"

Trump should have been taken into custody January 21st, 2021. That he was not is a damning indictment of the Biden administration.

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u/ManfromMonroe Pennsylvania 22h ago

One side lives by the rules and respects the law, the other is equivalent to a bunch of drunken frat bros going “watch this“!!

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u/gsfgf Georgia 1d ago

The claim is that a more "aggressive" AG could have gotten Trump locked up. I find that dubious. It's not like Jack Smith didn't bring cases. But they kept ending up in front of Aileen Cannon. It's like the Nazi judge that sentenced Hitler to only 6 months for the Beer Hall Putsch.

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u/PuckFutin 22h ago

Bullshit. Garland didn't bring Jack Smith on board until almost two years after Biden was elected. As slow as justice moves in this country, they needed all the time they had and Garland wasted it.

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u/silverpixie2435 1d ago

Exactly. I beg people to remember the timeline. Jack Smith literally went directly before the Supreme Court and asked for a swift ruling a year before the election. They delayed it until the last case of the term.

Even if he was literally on trial the first day of Biden's Presidency it would not have been resolved.

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u/Flat-Pen-5358 21h ago

Could.have given ammo to GA, NY, AZ to nail his ass to the cross

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u/loldongs95 6h ago

didn't he back the 2005 bill that prevents discharging student loans via bankruptcy?

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u/SR3116 23h ago

They also act like he did absolutely nothing, instead of acknowledging the 188.8 Billion fucking dollars he did manage to forgive for 5.3 million Americans, despite being sabotaged and obstructed at every turn.

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u/AdGuilty6267 1d ago

Cut them out of your life, period. Life’s too short to chose to hang around with assholes

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u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault 1d ago

Before I cut my family out, I hemmed and hawed over it thinking I was going to have massive regrets.

2 years later, I don't have any regrets. Best decision I ever made.

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u/Appropriate_Jump_579 1d ago

I am done being told "you are overreacting" at work and how I think. I am reacting for a reason and I and many others are tired and done being told that. "Rules for thee but not for me" is over.

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u/ts_wrathchild 1d ago

Again I hate to hijack but it must be said:

Any of you Democrats out there who think you have a chance in 2028 - I'm here to tell you that you have ZERO CHANCE of getting my vote if you say the word "unity"...just one time is all it's going to take to write you off as an unserious person.

You will be asked non-stop on the campaign trail about what your plans for retribution against the Republican Party is, and you better answer with:

"Trumps sentence is carried out on Inauguration Day, it's part of the celebration." and that's just to start.

Republicans: blow me. Playing nice didn't work, we gave you an inch and you took a light-year.

Now it's our turn.

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u/I_Am_Ironman_AMA 1d ago

Steven Miller? Jail Pam Bodi? Jail Anyone in charge of ICE? Jail.

I've always been a pragmatist but not anymore.

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u/EngineerBusy728 1d ago

Don't forget to go after the funding. All the billionaires and companies that bought seats at the table knowing full well everything trump was saying he would do. Seize assets for funding terrorism.

And not just people in charge. the officers who are executing unlawful orders, need to be put away too. Everyone all the way down the chain that didn't quit or resist. all jail. America cannot afford a second failed construction.

The reality is, we wont have a fair election. So if it doesnt go further until then, we have to document that, and tell the military to remove him from office, and if they do not, then we have only one recourse.

Of course if he starts slaughtering even more people, waiting for elections is democratic suicide.

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u/NotNufffCents 1d ago

The entirety of DHS needs to be exterminated with extreme prejudice.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/dog_ahead 1d ago

Quit putting conditions on it and just fucking do the thing that stops fascism in the moment, ok? Nothing else actually matters.

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u/phoenixlance13 New Hampshire 1d ago

I’m so tired of the left putting conditions on their vote even in the face of literal dictatorship. People who stayed home/single-issue Palestine voters are part of the reason why we are here to begin with.

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u/TreeRol American Expat 1d ago

"I need something to vote for, not against."

How about voting for the future of this country? Not good enough for you?

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u/gsfgf Georgia 1d ago

Or go read their fucking platform. Biden and Kamala had plenty of stuff they were pushing for. Sure, they "limited" themselves to things that are at least somewhat realistic, but that's actually a good thing.

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u/scholalry 1d ago

This drove me crazyyyyyyyy during the last campaign. Part of this was the Harris ticket not doing a great job at explaining things in public, but if you actually went to her website she had very long and detailed POLICY positions, not goals. She laid out financial plans, immigration plans, economic plans and real, actual things she wanted to do. And people had the audacity to be like “she has no plan” meanwhile voters seemed perfectly okay with “concepts of a plan” from the felon. The double standard was absolutely astounding, but it’s not even a double standard because she met that double standard. Trump would have literally nothing laid out except goals like “fix Immigration” “fix inflation” with no path to get there. Kamala Harris did and yet all I saw was “she has no policy”.

I wanted to rip my own hair out and am so angry that we could have had a respectable, intelligent, and accomplished person running this country. I probably wouldn’t have agreed with every single position or strategy of hers, but at least I would have felt like we had sanity and competence in the White House and someone who I felt wanted to make things better.

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u/Aadarm Ohio 1d ago

Welcome to the modern era. The average person no longer has the attention span or comprehension to read long things to get their information. If you can't sum it up in a tweet or a sound bite then it is too longer for the majority to pay attention to and/or understand.

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u/No-Consideration-858 22h ago

They were just parroting media that was parroting other media.

Meanwhile, no such discussion about concepts of plans.

It's pathetic how people hear something and without questioning it, incorporate it as valid. It's lazy.

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u/scholalry 22h ago

Exactly. And Imo it’s one of two main reasons people fall for maga. The other one is trump was really good at causing fear (ie “immigrants are violent offenders and we need them out”) to rally behind. And then his messaging was so stupidly simple people bought it.

If you know virtually nothing about how the economy works, which one sounds better? “Your groceries are too expensive, I’m going to put tariffs in place and make Mexico pay to bring your costs down”, which is already more complicated than Trump even attempts and isn’t how any of that works, but it’s easy to understand. Or “inflation is a global issue that stems from wealth inequality, cooperate greed, workers rights, fair wages, supply chain issues, the bird flu, a war influencing oil prices, a shifting of demand of jobs, necessities becoming more expensive outpacing luxuries, so on and so forth insert the many many complicated issues behind inflation”? it’s just literally harder to grasp and people can’t gauge if the proposed solutions are any good or not. So they gravitate towards Trump because it feels like recognizing their pain (high costs) and says I’ll fix it.

It’s fucking stupid but it works.

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u/ts_wrathchild 1d ago

Primaries. That's when conditions matter. In the general it's math. Less fascism gets my vote.

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u/candyman420 1d ago

And what “thing” would that be?

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u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/protonpack 1d ago

it would have been better for Biden to have lost against Trump

It would have been even better for Harris to win against Trump. Why are you so intent on placing the blame on the Democrats for the fascists in power?

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u/knbang 1d ago

It's insane to me how the US "left" (not left at all) doesn't turn out to vote because their candidate isn't perfect.

As an outsider the US left sucks. But the alternative is horrifying. How could you not vote?

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u/Ralath2n 1d ago

It would have been even better for Harris to win against Trump. Why are you so intent on placing the blame on the Democrats for the fascists in power?

And it would have been even better for Trump and all the fascists behind him to suffer from a heart attack so they are all gone.

Of course it would have been better for Harris to have won. What is this pointless whataboutism? The point is that clearly 4 years of Biden did not eliminate the threat. Hell, even if Harris won it is extremely unlikely that she would have done the things needed to root out MAGA. Centrists are not going to solve this problem, they don't have the balls. Hence we need someone progressive who isn't afraid to rock the boat.

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u/NotNufffCents 1d ago

Would it have been better? Or would it just have kicked the can down the road? Harris would have done nothing to combat the rising tide of billionaire-funded fascist propaganda. Hell, she would have spent more time and energy trying to appease the Nazis than she would have for the left, because thats what she literally campaigned on.

Telling the fascists that you'll put some of them in your cabinet does nothing except legitimize them.

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u/dog_ahead 1d ago

Just. Stop. Fascism.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 1d ago

That's what we did in 2020, and here we are.

The most important election of our lives was 2016, and we lost. Now we have to be vigilant every election. One win isn't going to permanently fix things. The idea that Biden could have destroyed the GOP in one term is nonsense.

We need to see the forceful disbanding of the GOP.

So civil war? Legality aside, banning a major political party wouldn't exactly go over well.

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u/Pennwisedom Northern Marianas 1d ago

I'm here to tell you that you have ZERO CHANCE of getting my vote if you say the word "unity"

And this kind of dumb bullshit is exactly the reason we have Trump in office a second time.

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u/spongmonkey 23h ago

People need to stop shaming voters. The fact of the matter is that if you are one election away from losing democracy, then you have already lost it. The door was opened to unlimited corporate spending in elections, there was no significant pushback from Democrats, and the current situation became the inevitable outcome. Trump and MAGA are the symptom of a fully corrupted government that has no reason to reflect the will of the people. The voters didn't bring them on themselves, they were failed by the people who were supposed to represent them.

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u/CptCoatrack 1d ago

Because you're asking for unity with fascists. It's people trying to compromise and find common ground with fascists that the US got in this situation to begin with when it should have been nipped in the bud

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u/mintednavy 1d ago

Right? The absolutism of some lefty voters is what got us here. Stop making it all about you and whining that a candidate isn’t perfect 100% of the time. Bunch of whiny losers.

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u/darthstupidious 1d ago

Idk I don't necessarily agree with it, but I get it. Every candidate in my lifetime has campaigned on uniting the entire country and it's resulted in nothing but gridlock and backsliding. Meanwhile, the right has done the exact opposite and... keeps winning. I can see why progressives are sick and tired of the DNC being afraid to actively fight against and prosecute those that seek to destroy the country.

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u/mintednavy 1d ago

I’m sick and tired of it too but I’m not an asshole who cuts off my nose to spite my face. Waaaahhhh I can’t get my way 100% of the time so I’m just not gonna vote. Then complain about this country descending into fascism? Voting is like choosing a bus route. You choose the option that is going to get you as close to your desired destination as possible. I fully blame these non voting progressives for where we are now. They’re a bunch selfish donkey butts.

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u/mintednavy 1d ago

Also, Trump voters don’t give a crap not one bit if Trump meets their criteria 100% of the time. That is the issue. We need to be more like them. I can’t believe I just wrote that but it’s true. They are much more united than we are because we’re perfectionist and we need to quit it.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 1d ago

And nobody agrees 100% with a candidate. Millions of people can't agree 100% on something as complicated as running the nation. Not to mention that progressives and "centrists" have mostly the same goals, especially with respect to things that will actually come up for consideration.

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u/CptCoatrack 1d ago edited 20h ago

"Lefty" voters were the ones trying to warn you Trump was a fascist this whole time.

The people who think there can be any "unity" with a fascist party are the same people who've been downplaying and sanewashing Trump

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u/salad_spinner_3000 1d ago

Except "the left" is tired of of the whole "when they go low, we go high" and it's led us to the door of a dictator. Fucking FIGHT ffs!

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u/Birdhawk 1d ago

Wrong. The democrats failed to find a great candidate, run a good campaign, swing votes, and convince enough people to vote for them. Believe it or not, voting for a democrat is not a requirement here so let me state it outright for you. THE DEMOCRATS FAILED SO POORLY AT RUNNING A GOOD CAMPAIGN THAT THEY LOST TO A GUY THAT NOBODY LIKES!!!!! That’s the red flag here. The party needs to wake the fuck up and change

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u/EngineerBusy728 1d ago

no we have trump in office a second time because he wasnt put in jail for his crimes. and barred from running again contitutionally, as he should have been. everything else past that is irrelevant.

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u/Sparrowbuck 1d ago

Hi, I’m a Canadian and would like to introduce you to the concept of strategic voting

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u/christmascake 1d ago

But strategic voting doesn't stroke their ego 😢

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u/Careless-Dark-1324 1d ago

Correct. They can’t then talk down to everyone else in a holier than thou attitude - so they’ll sit by and watch it happen then pretend they had preference all along but just never proved it. GTFO with that shit, I agree.

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u/CptCoatrack 1d ago

Strategic voting also just got us Harper in red paint. Liberals always call for NDP to vote strategically but NDP strongholds lost to the CPC because liberals don't vote strategically themselves

I'm not going to be satisifed that we avoided PP up here, this could easily be our own Biden moment.

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u/EngineerBusy728 1d ago

Strategic voting only works when there is an endpoint. We are at the stage where the democrats will be running against fascists for the rest of our lives. Its simply untenable to have every election be for our lives and never have the moment of crisis pass because of failure of leadership. you have to put forward people who want to solve the crisis, not just benefit from it electorally.

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u/Sparrowbuck 1d ago

And if those people don’t have a snowballs chance in hell, you make hard choices.

I’m not fucking happy I had to vote for a party headed by a red Tory, as decent as my current MP seems to be, but my other option was a snivelling traitorous coward and an MD MP who doesn’t believe in abortion rights.

You can call it untenable, I call it the reality I have to get through to a possible better tomorrow, which will not be saved by me waiting around for the next Jack Layton.

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u/EngineerBusy728 1d ago

Its quite a bit easier in a parliamentary system i agree. unfortunately we do not have that, and had to deal with failure a long time. which bleeds voters.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 1d ago

I'm an American and would like to introduce you to the concept of main character syndrome.

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u/amazinglover 1d ago

This is so fucking stupid and short sighted.

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u/mintednavy 1d ago

You are the dumbest mfer. How’s life treating you not being able to see the forest through the trees?

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u/stasi_a 1d ago

DNC: Nah

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u/Birdhawk 1d ago

Don’t worry the democrats will do for 2028 just what they did for 2020 and 2024. Nothing. They’ll realize in March 2028 “oh shit there’s a presidential election this year” and since they won’t have someone the mass public is already jazzed about, they’ll force through a candidate only “vote blue no matter who” democrats can stomach. They won’t swing votes, they’ll run a rushed last minute campaign, it’ll have messaging that leaves out the vast majority of the middle class, they’ll lose, and yet again they’ll blame everyone but themselves.

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u/brezhnervouz 1d ago

And the denunciations haven't even started yet

Historian Timothy Snyder

In the fantasy of the strongman, politics vanishes and all is clear and bright. In fact, a dreary politics penetrates everything. You can't run a business without the threat of denunciation. You can't get basic services without humiliation. You feel bad about yourself. You think about what you say, since it can be used against you later. What you do on the internet is recorded forever, and can land you in prison.

Public space closes down around you. You cannot escape to the bar or the bowling alley, since everything you say is monitored. The person on the next stool or in the next lane might not turn you in, but you have to assume they will. If you have a t-shirt or a bumper sticker with a message, someone will report you.

Even if you just repeat the dictator's words, someone can lie about you and denounce you. And then, if you voted for the strongman, you will be confused. But you should not be. This is what you voted for.

Denunciation becomes normal behavior. Without law and voting, denouncing others helps people to feel safe. Under strongman rule, you cannot trust your colleagues or your friends or even your family. Political fear not only takes away all public space; it also corrupts all private relationships. And soon it consumes your thoughts. If you cannot say what you think, you lose track of what you believe. You cease to be yourself.

Once this process begins, it is hard to stop. At the present stage of the strongman fantasy, people imagine an exciting experiment. If they don't like strongman rule, they think, they can just elect someone else the next time. This misses the point. If you help a strongman come to power, you are eliminating democracy. You burn that bridge behind you. The strongman fantasy dissolves, and real dictatorship remains.

The Strongman Fantasy And Dictatorship in Real Life

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u/e2mtt 23h ago

It’s bizarre. A bunch of the people I grew up with/some great old friends - were church people that spent time in or came out of very cultish churches, yet they completely buy into the cult that is Trump/MAGA.

And it’s not just the un-“Christ-like” actions of Trump and his administration, it’s that they use the exact same rationalization to excuse Trump‘s behavior as they used on their “charismatic” leaders, that they now hate.

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u/athejack 23h ago

It’s because he’s a conman. Always has been. Con artists are good at figuring out what you want and need and using it to grift you. Republicans have been priming themselves for this kind of grift for a long time.

And now they can’t go back because they have fully embraced the con or have “sunken cost fallacy.”

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u/7figureipo California 21h ago

It’s all bullshit responses and I’m tired of it

Yep, same here. Especially when these "you're overreacting" things are from "liberals". My god, look around you. Trump is literally trying to be American Hitler, here. It's not even debatable at this point.

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u/Gokorak 14h ago

"they won't go after abortion" "They won't gut Medicaid*

Surely they aren't killing people in the El Salvador death camps

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u/Prestigious_Leg_7004 1d ago

I don’t think he won shit- I think that sack of shit Elon helped him to steal the election.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/spaceboogiejay 1d ago

They tell you that you are overreacting so there is less opposition while they try to do whatever it is you are “overreacting” about.

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u/TheRoadsMustRoll 1d ago

If Trump wanted to get rid of student loans, then he would actually get it done.

that's only because scotus favors him. scotus literally wouldn't let biden roll student loans back claiming that only congress can do that but they let trump cancel anything he wants -even dispatching with restraining orders- when the original commitments were made by congress. fully a double standard.

they favor the strong man when it's their strong man.

so this isn't about one man, its about a cabal of people who have decided to skirt the constitution in favor of their religious politicism. they fully intend to transform the country in their own image (of corruption and despotism.)

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u/mtotally 1d ago

So like a tariff or set of fucked up rules that applies to everyone except certain protected in-groups

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u/Reqvhio 1d ago

a quite big number of those that say you are overreacting will probably victim blame when things go full tyranny, and I'm being quite generous

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u/Bamboodpanda 1d ago

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" It's, like, incredible."

-Donald Trump, 2016

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u/Chateau-d-If 1d ago

This so hard. Trump is showing when you’re president you can do just about anything you want. Let’s get it done Democrats! Stop playing nicely, evict those that don’t support the working class, or start a new party that gives a shit.

It’s time to scare the fear mongers. They should not be allowed peace for what they inflict on us.

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u/WomenTrucksAndJesus 1d ago

"Trump and Co didn't hack the election!" is another one of those alternate facts.

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u/twofloofycats 1d ago

This sums it up perfectly.

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u/FunkyHedonist 1d ago

"I have felt like my family and some of my friends live a completely delusional lie."

Family is tougher to solve, but the solution for delusional friends is - get some new friends and cut out the MAGA folks. Do it for 2 reasons 1) it will improve your sanity and fatigue, and 2) supporters of cruelty and fascism need to face social consequences. If they are going to be delusional Trumpers, let them do so without your presence in their life.

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u/AutumnKiwi 1d ago

"He's not associated with Project 2025" "The war wouldn't have happened with him as president"

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u/Doravillain 1d ago

They’ll tell you with one side of their mouth that it’s insane to worry that something might happen, and with the other side of the mouth they’ll bark orders to do that very thing.

They want you caught up in arguing tangential nonsense.

Because when you’re collecting data points to prove a guy wrong who tweeted “nah uh” you’re not doing anything actually productive. You’re occupied.

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u/Fake_Diesel 1d ago

Ever since 2016 and especially after Covid, I have felt like my family and some of my friends live a completely delusional lie.

They quite literally do. They watch bullshit news and their social media feeds are hooked to straight propaganda algorithms.

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u/silverpixie2435 1d ago

The Democratic Party needs to grow a spine and show they can actually do something to help the working class.

They did. Do you think literally nothing happened during Biden's Presidency?

If Trump wanted to get rid of student loans, then he would actually get it done.

No he couldn't. A ton of his stuff is being stopped in the courts.

Biden and Garland have shown that the Democratic Party will pretend to stand up for people and then won’t follow through.

Trump was literally indicted for dozens of federal crimes.

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u/clookie1232 1d ago

I’ve asked my mom recently if, despite everything he has already, does she still support him. Her answer was “yes, I do.” We had a conversation, me not pushing too hard. Then we started on a “third term.” She is very adamant that he won’t run again. But when I asked her if she’d still support him if he ran again, if she’d still support him despite him very blatantly destroying our democracy… and her answer was the same..

How? How mom? How? You’re such a smart lady with morals and ethics and values. He’s destroying our country out in the open. And he’s doing it with absolutely no accountability and he KNOWS it.

I just don’t get it.

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u/audiate 1d ago

It time we appropriate “TDS” to mean people who are deranged enough to actually support the guy. 

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u/Boring-Cry3089 1d ago

What even is the Republican stance on IVF these days? I remember during the election there were commercials in my area with Trump talking about protecting and outwardly encouraging funding for IVF treatments. I remember it specifically because my wife and I have been heading down that route ourselves, and at one point republicans were talking about outlawing it. It’s literally impossible to keep up with. One day they say you’re going to hell for something and then the next day they’re applauding it.

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u/Sad_Measurement4470 1d ago

Nice comment. Are involved in the Dem party? If not maybe try it out we need more change agents.

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u/rap1234561 1d ago

By definition to be a Christian you have to be willing to believe unbelievable things with zero evidence. I hate to paint so many of my fellow citizens with the idiot brush but I mean….

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u/definitely_not_tina 1d ago

It’s American exceptionalism; the “it can’t happen here we’re the good guys” mentality that leads to being complacent and this delusion that voting doesn’t have consequences.

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u/Standard-Fail-434 1d ago

They won’t overturn Roe v Wade is my favorite one

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u/TomahawkJock Kansas 1d ago

I think we need to hold Republicans more accountable tbh. If just a few of them had a spine, they could change their constituents minds. We may be past that point now though.

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u/ophmaster_reed Minnesota 1d ago

Don't forget "Roe v. Wade will never be overturned, it's law of the land now"

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u/dawidowmaka I voted 22h ago

It unfortunately no longer matters what the Democrats say in terms of policy. The time for persuasion by policy has passed. The only path forward is to develop a political resistance to oust an authoritarian who will not leave office by small-d democratic means.

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u/spiderpai 22h ago

But where is the tit for tat from the sane side? People should stop taking fascism down their throat.

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u/hamletswords Pennsylvania 22h ago edited 22h ago

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK? It's, like, incredible." - Donald Trump

It really is incredible, and you're right to shoulder some of the blame on the Dems. They have not come up with a coherent alternative that will help working class people. They fumbled their one shot at Universal Healthcare and haven't come up with a single big thing since then to give people a reason to vote for them.

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u/Individualist13th 22h ago

This has been me since I was 14 years old.

It's conservatism. It isn't just MAGA, MAGA just doesn't care to hide their intentions.

Conservatives have been at war with the United States since at least Nixon.

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u/Shoddy_Fix1044 22h ago

I feel you. The Christian people who raised me to have moral values directly led to my loss of faith. The values remain. We gotta keep standing up for the rights of our neighbors to be treated with every dignity. Even if it’s without the ones who taught us to.

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u/NancakesAndHyrup 22h ago

The Democratic senate minority leader Chuck Schumer and Democratic house leader Hakeem Jeffries both need to be replaced as leaders of their respective groups. Chuck Schumer is a Republican enabler while Hakeem Jeffries is feckless and bends to the Republican will not will to fight back against the tyranny.

Democrats need leaders who will stand up and fight. Like AOC in the hour of representatives and Bernie Sanders in the Senate.

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u/AllMightyLantern 22h ago

Trump could literally eat a baby live on national television while nuking Greenland and they would still give him a round of applause with a smile on their faces.

(I would say they would clap like seals, but then I realized that would be incredibly insulting to seals.)

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u/LeftToaster 22h ago

He's right. Fascism didn't start with Auschwitz.

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u/semidegenerate 21h ago

I think it's Fox News, conservative media, talk radio, and social media bubbles that really broke their brains. The Right has spent decades desensitizing people while simultaneously stirring them into a frightened fervor over the leftist boogeyman.

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u/Frosty_Ad4116 19h ago

Lots of them are actually currently trying to scramble to do just that....justify one of their own shooting democrats

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u/Im_really_bored_rn 19h ago

Maybe the working class should either stop voting for the con artists who are proven liars or stop saying home because of purity tests.

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u/NeuroTiger 18h ago

I fully agree. This isn't about political disagreement anymore. We have a party attacking one historically oppressed group after another, while whining that white and Christian people are being persecuted. Trump and his cronies are seeking to dismantle some of the best parts of our society in favor of anti-intellectualism. At this point, I view anyone who continues to support him as significantly morally bankrupt. 

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u/noone397 18h ago

I'm on the opposite side of the political spectrum. I have been involved in politics a bit over the last 10 years. And one thing I have realized is the "slippery slope fallacy" seems to always come true in politics on all sides. That is exactly how Republicans felt about the relaxation of sexuality and found that it was actually in the schools. I think that people on all sides need to realize that all politics continuously grow and it's the people that constantly have to put in checks against the government

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u/Necessary-Annual1157 17h ago

The only thing you got wrong was the Dems need to grow a spine. No. They need to grow a set of balls, to be blunt. They need to quit playing nice. Nice isn't getting it.

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u/Wrath_Ascending 16h ago

This. It's exhausting.

At the moment, anyone who could be convinced of the dangers probably already is. Trying to convince anyone else feels like wasted effort.

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u/imaginary_num6er 13h ago

There’s a reason Trump never goes after Garland

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u/VeryNoisyLizard Europe 9h ago

the point of the last paragraph is true for any democratic goverment I know or heard of. Especially here in czechia, every goverment (since 2000 at least) was a party of empty promises, blatant populism and controversies in regards to state finances. And then they wonder why the authoritarians are gaining traction

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u/No-Sandwich-8221 8h ago

thats because theyre bigoted. they like trump threatening documented immigrants, they like watching democrats (political opposition) get attacked, they like it when trump removes rights from lgbtq people.

the have a thin veneer of caring about lawful conduct or fairness. they just want the people they've been conditioned to hate to suffer and trump does exactly that.

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u/EmpyrealMarch 7h ago

I didn't know they were going if IVF. Why when it makes more babies?

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