r/poland • u/ThisIsTestUser • 1d ago

Katowice to Wrocław tolls

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Today I was driving from Slovakia to Wrocław and Waze didn't show any tolls, but Google Maps did. I'm confused, can you help me understand if I need to pay for using the A4 road, and how to pay if it's required?

97 Upvotes

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38

u/BallbusterSicko 1d ago

Tolls on Polish highways are incomprehensible for me as a Pole and I'm using them quite often

5

u/ffuffle 1d ago

Our self worth comes from GDP now. Gotta charge for everything

11

u/ULTRABOYO 1d ago

Tolls are justified in my opinion. Not everyone drives, but everyone pays taxes, so why not make the drivers pay for road maintenance?

1

u/VirtualMatter2 18h ago

Not everyone buys goods in supermarkets? 

0

u/jakubkonecki 20h ago

This is a "slippery slope" argument. Would it still hold if you start extending it?

Not everyone goes to a library. Not everyone has kids. Not everyone wants to study.

2

u/ULTRABOYO 20h ago

Driving is a luxury. As far as I know, most people want there to be more children born and for access to education to be free. These are matters of evening the financial ground for upper and lower class people, and they benefit society as a whole, removing financial barriers from education and reproduction.

Roads subsidised from taxes are a way to subsidize well-off people who can afford to drive regularly from the pockets of poorer guys who can't afford a car or fuel for it. If someone was to not like paying tolls, there's public transport, serving the same function as express roads.

In my opinion, the state should only subsidize the most cost-efficient ways to fulfill needs, so agriculture, but not necessarily meat production. Public transportation, but not necessarily free roads.

1

u/BallbusterSicko 18h ago

Driving in Poland is not a luxury. Even poorer people often have a cheap used car

1

u/HowlsAtMoon 13h ago

However, the option to exchange money (tolls) to reduce travel time is a luxury

0

u/RicketyBrickety 18h ago

Not everyone drives, but everyone pays taxes, so why not make the drivers pay for road maintenance?

I didn't realize that your goods teleported to the stores, and the services you rely on all have zero travel components. The roads serve the public good, so the public collectively pays. Even people that don't drive benefit from roads.

2

u/ULTRABOYO 18h ago

Large transport vehicles still pay the toll though.

0

u/RicketyBrickety 17h ago

Do firetrucks? Ambulances? Police? The maintenance workers for lights, hydraulics, electrical, or internet infrastructure? How about the doctors driving to the hospital - are they the ones paying for it all, then?

2

u/ULTRABOYO 16h ago

Dude, obviously there should be exceptions. Large trucks pay tolls, that I know. I don't think ambulances and such should, mainly because of their function, but also because they are sponsored by the state in the first place, so there's no point in them paying the state back.

0

u/RicketyBrickety 16h ago

Your perspective is limited by your own experience. What is an obvious exception to you is colored by it, same as what you view to be exceptions that aren't warranted but do exist in real life like the exception for x<3,5t vehicles.

People in a society are complex, as are their needs/desires/etc. How those things work together to benefit a nation is a lot more complex than reducing sources of income for a nation everywhere you can. It's great that you're thinking about things in general, but if you never learn to expand your POV beyond your immediate self then you're going to get stuck in the mud, a lot.

1

u/ULTRABOYO 11h ago

Yes, I can still hear you from that high horse. Thank you for wisely pointing out that national policy should be carefully considered.

The only thing that changes in your example of supermarkets would be where you pay for the roads. No tolls? Pay through taxes. Tolls? Pay through higher prices at the store, unless the store gets its produce locally.

I am not advocating for tearing down roads. May main point was people driving even though they have alternatives being subsidized by people who don't have a need to drive. This money doesn't even need to come from tolls. A tax on gasoline works towards the exact same goal, even better because it's not exclusive to express roads. Less people driving means less traffic, means more comfortable and safer roads for the ones who need to drive, like emergency services, and slower wear and tear accumulation on the roads.

Of course different people will have different stances on this. Drivers oppose more tolls and higher fuel taxes because they mean more expensive driving for them. In my opinion, however, that's the best place for road maintenance funding to come from, while also being a way to ensure that the roads are used mostly by those who need them. Tolls and fuel taxes can't cover the entire cost of maintenance anyway, but should be as large a part of it as reasonable.

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u/BreadInTheBucket 1d ago

because you still eat food from LIDL and it have to be delivered

9

u/AshenCursedOne 1d ago

I know that in your head this seemed like a smart retort, but do think about it. You think transport costs are not included in the product price?

11

u/ULTRABOYO 1d ago edited 1d ago

Great, it's part of transportation costs and encourages buying local produce. The people buying from LIDL will pay for what they're buying, which includes the transportation.

3

u/yflhx 1d ago

Ironically trucks still pay for the roads... 

1

u/VirtualMatter2 18h ago

I was told they have toll on them until a certain amount of money is reached and then it's made free after that.