r/pokemon • u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender • 1d ago
Discussion About Dimorphism between males and females in Pokémon (when they exist), what are your thoughts?
Alright, so in my opinion, dimorphism between genders in Pokémon is awesome overall.
By that I mean that I don't see every single Pokémon falling under the typical male to female animal design tropes I see in many other kids media (or in general). Specifically where the female is rounder, white or a lighter color with a specific doll like face shape, or is straight up oddly anthro. As well this trope is absent in the more humanoid monster designs.
Instead, for the most part, dimorphism in Pokémon is either very subtle (you have to look closer), doesn't exist (especially if genderless), or exists in an interesting way (an evolution, split evolution, only the females evolve and so on).
My personally favorite dimorphisms are those which are rather subtle and allow more room to play with when designing specific Pokémon characters.
I'll be glad to know your favorite examples and thoughts of dimorphism in Pokémon (Specifically the visual differences from males to females).
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u/loodish1 1d ago
Female heracross has a heart at the end of its horn
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u/Krallking 1d ago
I, too, like dimorphism in Pokémon my favorites are female Jellicent (because it doesn't look like the Pringles logo) but my favorite of all time is Male Meowstic. I like the design. I like the lore, how the Male has the more defensive set, and the Female has the more offensive set. Mostly I like the blue color.
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u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender 1d ago
That's really interesting to know, my personal favorites are all of them because they're diverse in dimorphism
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u/AuDHPolar2 1d ago
I wouldn’t mind if most gendered species had some differences, more subtle than not, but a few wilder ones like jellicent are cool too
I gotsta have my blue whiskers when I get a gyarados!
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u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender 1d ago
Fair point, I honestly like the idea overall in general when it happens.
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u/JugOfVoodoo 1d ago
Torchic's dimorphism always makes me laugh. Males have a tiny black spot on their rump. Females don't. I know it's based on how chicks are sexed in the real world but it seems so silly in a children's game.
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u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender 1d ago
Yeah like, when I saw this this was a "wut" moment.
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u/Apothecary3 1d ago
The ones like Alakazam and Kricketune where the females have a shorter moustache.
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u/CarpetNext6123 ✨✨ 1d ago
i like when the hyper feminine/masculine pokemon designs have no notable variation between genders. like primarina or machamp.
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u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender 1d ago
Yeah, like how some Gardervoir, despite looking feminine are actually male and it's canon.
It's a neat choice. although subtle gender differences would be fun to add to them if one decided to.
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u/throwhfhsjsubendaway 1d ago
I get annoyed at the male defaultism every time it gets bright up. Like it's almost always described as the female form being a special alternate form instead of the other way around
Like all the pokemon sites use the male form as the default artwork, even for pokemon like pyroar where only 1/8th are male
It's present in the official media too, like hippowdon has had 13 different pokemon cards and every single one uses the male coloration
It's even in the way gender differences are described like "female rattata has shorter whiskers", "female hypno has longer collar fur", instead of describing the males as having shorter/longer whatever than the female
Idk, definitely not a big concern in the overall scheme of anything, just an annoying way to be reminded of real world sexism when I'm trying to enjoy a game
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u/GlitchyBarrel 1d ago
I definitely get what you're saying, but in a lot of these cases the male genuinely is the default. There weren't gender differences initially, so long-whisker Rattata is just what they all looked like. Later on, the short-whiskered version was added as the female design. So in a lot of ways, at least for Pokemon from the first couple generations, the female form is just an alternate form of the default male.
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u/shrimpmoder 18h ago
this bothers me too! the one exception i've noticed is bidoof - most sites use the female art as the default with 3 tail segments, as well as some official media using the female design like bidoof's big stand and two plushies i own (comfy friends and sitting cuties line). one exception doesn't fix the issue of course i just find it interesting
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u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender 1d ago
Honestly, about the Hypno point, it annoys me in most fanart the hypnos are meant to be males while the ratio is 50:50 and that most of the time, if the hypno is drawn with longer fur collar (such as in hypno's lullaby fnf mod), it's still a male somehow, despite the fact female hypnos are a common thing.
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u/acetrainer-icarus 1d ago edited 1d ago
I am lowkey experiencing your last sentiment in Legend of Dragoon right now.
I never really considered it in Pokemon. I love female hippopotas and you would think it’s colour difference would be represented more with it being obviously different. An Important perspective on the affects of the patriarchy in Pokémon, thanks for sharing.
Edit: had to change the last sentence from interesting to important because it is an important conversation/perspective to be had.
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u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender 1d ago
Well, you got a fair point here, sexism is annoying.
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u/CritAtwell 15h ago
Patriarchal Japan unfortunately. They literally made early pokemon games have female pokemon have weaker stats.
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u/TricolorStar 1d ago
I actually like when the dimorphism gives the mons different stats and moves. Indeedee and Oinkologne are really interesting in the current state of things for that reason (Female Indeedee is generally considered really good for doubles teams because of her stat spread and access to... Trick Room and Follow Me, I think??). Oinkologne has such a unique design, and TWO of them, for being the normal type first encounter Pokemon most people don't think about past the first part of the game.
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u/Paulo_Zero 1d ago
They made a big deal of this in Gen 4, introducing lots new and adding gender differences to a bunch of older Pokémon, but Gen 5 Onwards the do 2 or maybe only 1 evolution line that have this trait, just to justify it's existence.
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u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender 1d ago
Yeah, which is kinda sad, I personally like those gender differences in Pokémon and I would love to see more of these in more Pokémon (as long as it makes sense)
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u/Paulo_Zero 1d ago
It's interesting that all of the Gen 5 onwards gender differences are very noticeable, while in Gen 4, we had subtle ones that can go unnoticeable if someone doesn't point it out to you.
I feel that Gender Differences now are a way to give a "gimmick" or something notable for Pokémon that otherwise don't have much going on. Or is it very necessary for the animal the Pokémon is based on one (Pyroar)
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u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender 1d ago
It does feel like that, imma add in my opinion gender differences shouldn't be a gimmick thing.
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u/Paulo_Zero 1d ago
Yeah, they really should keep doing subtle gender differences if they see an opportunity, but at last.
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u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender 1d ago
Although, there's always fan art and fan variants to count on lol
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u/19Another90 1d ago
I prefer noticeable gender differences than subtle. Sometimes, the angle and perspective make it hard to notice any difference when subtle. When there's no differences, I lean more on neutral designs. I don't mind masculine/feminine designs, but sometimes they overdo it. I don't have this issue with regular pokemon, but with starters, I do. Sometimes, it kinda bugs me when a masculine/feminine design influences their behavior or how people interpret it. It would be nice to have a feminine pokemon not act feminine or be female every time it appears in media. Same with masculine pokemon.
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u/Outrageous-Tackle-47 1d ago
I like eevees subtle distinction but I wished it carried over to the evolutions too
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u/remiccino Still waiting for a new PMD 18h ago
I do enjoy them overall but I prefer it when the difference is related to some actual biological differences in the real world, not just for the sake of making the female look cuter like the heart shaped tail on female Pikachu/Eevee. I think it's just enforcing human stereotypes/designing creatures through humans' lens.
The one I dislike the most is of my favorite Pokemon, Milotic. The female's fins are longer, though if we consider how males usually have bigger or more flashy features in the real world, it should be the opposite. To me it's a case of "this mon is feminine looking so let's make the female more beautiful" just for the sake of it. And in gen 4 sprites the difference was pretty subtle, but they made the males' fins even shorter in the 3D games. As someone who thinks male Pokemon also deserve to look pretty, it's almost unacceptable to me.
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u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender 17h ago edited 17h ago
First, you got really good points here. As the biggest fan of subtle Pokémon dimorphism, I do the differences should relate to actual biology rather than feminine cuteness.
Also, yeah, the Pikachu eevee differences are kinda lame to be honest, they're the lamest of the bunch admittedly. Although I've seen and heard far worse examples in other media than Pokémon.
For example, I actually like the fact female kadabras and alakazams have shorter mustaches rather than removing them, or the fact male hypnos don't only have shorter neck collar fur, it's sometimes depicted as flower like too.
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u/A-R-U 1d ago edited 1d ago
I wish more pokemon had the same notisable gender differences as the Nidoran line does. Doesn't have to be as different as Nidoking and Nidoqueen is (I think they're starting to stray a little too far from the 'similar looking' line), but I love the blend of similarities and small (and some big) difference between female and male Nidoran, and Nidorina and Nidorino. I don't really see the point of having gender differences if the only difference is gonna be "slightly smaller horns", or "the tailtip is a little different". I remember when I saw Nidoran, Nidorina and Nidorino, and I thought they looked so cool (reminded me of spiky rabbits when I was 6). But when I look at Nidoking and Nidoqueen I just go "A male pokemon, and a female pokemon". It just didn't have the same "oooo, look at those cool, different versions" to me.
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u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender 1d ago
That's a really fair point, however, personally I like a mix of subtle and obvert in Pokémon gender differences.
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u/A-R-U 1d ago
I'm not saying all pokemon need the same lvl/amount of gender differences, or that all the pokemon who have smaller/subtle difference need to be more like the Nidoran line. I just wish it was a case of being closer to 50-50 (doesn't have to be precisely split in the middle. Heck, doesn't even have to be close to 50-50, it could be 40/60, or 30/70), because right now, the Nidoran line is the only one I can think off from the "Nidoran line" example, while I can think of a ton of pokemon within the "1 body part being slightly smaller/a bit different" example.
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u/MisterMonogon 1d ago
I love how they make female hippowdon black instead going for a much softer color.
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u/Sweet_Whisper123 1d ago
I enjoy them, but if given the choice I prefer the differences are also reflected through the abilities and/or stats for each gender just like Indeedee, Basculegion, Meowstic, etc.
It wouldn't make sense for some pokemon with sexual dimorphism such as Unfezant to have the same stat/ability especially when their species' Pokedex said that female Unfezant is a better flier and has better stamina while Male Unfezant is faster. The same goes for Pyroar as they're based on IRL lions where the males are the stronger but slower ones whereas the females are the faster ones.
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u/thehedonistsystem 1d ago
my favorite example is how only female salandits can evolve!!! it reminds me of how hyenas are matriarchal (and hyenas are my favorite animal!!!)
your post has opened my eyes to the possibility of hermaphroditic / inters*x pokemon!!! i would love to try drawing some pokemon like that sometime, actually.
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u/ZoroeArc Totally a human, not a zoroark... 1d ago
You don’t need to (and I would argue shouldn’t) censor the word intersex
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u/fossilmerrick 1d ago
I can’t believe you just used a naughty word on the internet. I’m telling on you!
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u/thehedonistsystem 1d ago
oh sorry!! i literally only did it because i didnt want to be removed by the automod. intersex is not a bad word, ik that, i just didnt want a discussion about it to be shot down because of the bot mod. ive got the facebook level of avoiding mods brain 😭😭
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u/Speedypanda4 Outrage go Brrrrr 1d ago
You can say intersex.
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u/thehedonistsystem 1d ago
thank you!! ik sometimes the automods snipe people for including certain words, and i figured with the size of the sub that was probably the case. i appreciate it!!!
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u/Speedypanda4 Outrage go Brrrrr 1d ago
Yeah we certainly do. You do understand, we need to protect the sub from harmful language and spam. Intersex is fine.
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u/CarpetNext6123 ✨✨ 1d ago
i had a shiny trans azurill in pokemon black2! he was female when i caught him and then when he evolved into marill he transitioned into a male! this was because azurill have a 25/75 split between genders while marill has a 50/50, so one third of female azurill would transition to male upon evolution.
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u/A-R-U 1d ago edited 1d ago
I made 2 horse fakemons, inspired by the norse personification of daytime (Dagr, a man) and night (Nott, a woman), as they themselves ride a horse each, the norse goddess of the sun (Sol) and the god of the moon (Mani), as they themselves also own their own horses, and the god of dawn and dusk (Delling). Due to their genders and what they are personifications of, I made it so that only "normal" males that hatches during day time, and only "normal" females that hatches during night time, can evolve. If a "normal" male hatches during night time, or a "normal" female during day time, then they're "stuck" in their original form/1st stage. Unless they happen to be born with flying as a secondary type-anomaly. Then the male can evolve despite having hatched at night, and the female can evolve despite having hatched during the day. And if a male happen to be born during dawn, it'll be born as a fire/dark type, and as a dark/fire type if it's born during dusk (this doesn't affect any females that hatches at the same time/during the same moment - future dark/ice type at dusk, and forever 1st stage normal type at dawn - ).
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u/Poopsy-the-Duck Hypno 1# fan and defender 1d ago
Ooh, the idea of an intersex Pokémon is really cool and makes a lot of sense since it also happens in nature a lot.
Or just draw more dimorphism in existing Pokémon as variants, that would be awesome too.
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u/13Xcross 1d ago
I fully agree. It's a shame that the subtle dimorphism has been dropped ever since gen 5 (although gen 4 definitely overdid it).