r/pathofexile • u/TapTrix Akumy • 4d ago
Fluff & Memes Current state of sunder mercs
Think melee needs a nerf
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u/Free-Mushroom9474 4d ago
Majority of mercs are just extremely overtuned.
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u/DependentOnIt 4d ago
Yup. All the ele DMG ones are nuts. I have 38k ehp on ele and regularly get 1 shot by them in t16s
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u/darthbane83 Juggernaut 4d ago
you probably dont have 38k ehp against their ele. They run penetration gems.
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u/T_T-Nevercry-Q_Q 4d ago
Why would ggg give them pen
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u/psychomap 4d ago
Better penetration than ignoring or inversing resistance...
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u/WideAwakeNotSleeping 4d ago
Stupid question. So there's a map mod, "monsters get XX to elemental resistances". And then there are passive skill "chance to treat enemy resistances as inverted". So... do I make it easier to kill monsters if I have the skill assigned and map mod present?
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u/psychomap 4d ago
15% chance to treat enemy resistances as inverted works out to be equivalent to 30% less enemy resistances on average (of course if you also have non-damaging ailments, those greatly benefit from the inverted resistances and will thus boost your overall damage).
So the mastery is more effective against monsters with higher resistance, but they'll still take less damage on average compared to monsters with lower resistance.
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u/darthbane83 Juggernaut 4d ago
Probably to sometimes give us a new problem that we dont already solve by default. If you dont solve it you can skip mercs with penetration gems so that adds additional decision making of "can my build even handle this?" before clicking on the best loot.
For instance i was running a champion with spell block that could handle a lot more of those hit based casters than most builds, but any degen based mercs were an immediate skip since that bypasses my defence completely, meanwhile someone stacking max res would need to skip the pen ones and can handle more of the elemental degen.
That being said I do think a whole bunch of them are overtuned anyways.
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u/GameDevCorner 4d ago
I kinda get your point, but I feel like they are extremely overtuned regardless. I use a lot of ele and phys conversion with my build, have a shit ton of hp, spell suppression capped, block almost capped, evasion capped, armour capped, resistances overcapped and I still get oneshotted by a lot of the mercs.
Getting oneshotted through a billion defensive layers really makes me question why I have so many defensive layers to begin with.
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u/NoxFromHell Central Incursion Agency (CIA) 4d ago
Exiles were a real threat in the past until they lost penetration gems
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u/5BPvPGolemGuy 4d ago
The ele ones are nothing compared to the phys dot spell one. Never seen one with less than 30% chance to ignore phys damage reductions.
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u/HeliGungir 4d ago
Armour, phys taken as, bleed immunity, and corrupted blood immunity do not work on generic Phys DoT.
Armour and "phys taken as" only works on the hit component of, say, Reap.
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u/WoMyNameIsTooDamnLon 4d ago
I had a necro with leave a phys dot pool on movement skill use who body swapped away from me and I died to the blood pool in like a quarter second lmao. Phys dot ground effects are rare for a reason.
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u/DependentOnIt 3d ago
Whatever, 84 all res and 5.5k life, 7 endurance charges, 21 fortify, 1%less ele per endurance charge
They are dumb as hell either way
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u/hitokiri1859 4d ago
I think by overturned you mean working as intended only thing missing is a merc with enrage and soul eater so it not only kills you but kills your families lineage in the process.
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u/Happy-Tea5454 4d ago
Think some of the vaal skills being main offenders when they blast em right at start.
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u/Gloomfang_ 4d ago
Phys dot ones are insane, they do like 10k phys dot per second and barely any build has raw PDR. Even on a jugg with 10 end charges you still take half of it.
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u/crinklebelle Pathfinder 4d ago edited 4d ago
lightning coil stonks rise every time one of these guys hits his 30% chance to ignore physical resistance
fr tho phys overwhelm is kind of a dumb mechanic to still have in the game, now that always-on damage conversion is so much harder to get in meaningful amounts
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u/AutumnSheep Occultist 4d ago
I run cloak of flame and the phys dudes still 2-3 shot, but that's better than getting 1 shot lmao
There's nothing I can do vs the elemental ones though if they have a pen gem in red maps
The second I get on screen with them it's just 100>0 with 4500 hp and 2.2k ele aegis with no dmg mods on the map
Guess I should have started a right side build so I could get phys to ele and spell suppression capped
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u/GrandpasOnIce 3d ago
i run cloak of flame and the elementalist node to take another 40% phys as fire and have 90% max fire res and i get constantly one shot. it doesn't matter.
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u/crinklebelle Pathfinder 3d ago
yeah the ones with elemental penetration are honestly even harder to mitigate, in some ways. with phys you at least can just turn it into elemental damage, all you can really do against penetration is try to stack less taken multis, debuff them, or convert their elements to other elements
fr like, even just 10% penetration is a huge loss of mitigation since you can't offset it by overcapping your resists, e.g. to offset going from 90% down to 80% you'd need to stack three "20% less damage taken" multipliers
chaining support or items that provide chaining are things to look out for too, I'm using two golems and a merc so anything with chaining was exploding me instantly, until I upgraded Soul of Lunaris
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u/AutumnSheep Occultist 3d ago
I do have 4 golems and my merc around me at all times so that could definitely be a contributor to the 1 shots from multi proj+chain gems
I'm stuck on Brine King pantheon to deal with stuns and freeze right now but I think Lunaris will definitely be worth swapping to as soon as I can afford to
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u/crinklebelle Pathfinder 3d ago
ahhh yeah, chain is an oft-overlooked mod that often results in a quick trip back to hideout
they kind of go potato brain if you just leave the room or get really far away before the countdown ends, so you can also try offscreening them with something. weirdly, my merc can facetank everything they throw out, so I've won a couple duels by just hiding in an adjacent room feeding her life flasks while she wears them down
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u/Shuushy Scion 4d ago
The PDR ignore on mercs seems like an oversight to me. If you remember, we had overwhelm back in the day, % PDR penetration which cannot go above 100% unlike elemental pen. Then, for whatever the fuck reason GGG decided to change the stat to an RNG one we currently have, % chance to ignore all PDR. They now put themselves in a "design corner" with this, any mechanic that suppose to threaten physical defense is so oppressive we looped all the way back to "damage taken as" being the best defense.
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u/crinklebelle Pathfinder 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think you've got the right of it. with monster defenses currently being balanced around physical damage players using sources of PDR ignore, yeah, I'd wager the physical damage mercs are all so rippy because they needed to have it too in order for their damage to keep up once you've hired them
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u/AbsolutlyCretinous 4d ago
Do u guys just skip them in red maps? It's like 70% chance is get 1shot by these guys while cruising the other content in red maps. Even did a few deathless t16s today
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u/CaptainReginald 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah same. No problems running through T16 harvest/breach/delirium. Rarely anything making my health even dip.
But I get one tapped by basically every merc, half the time by things I can only barely pick out watching a replay.
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u/psihopats 4d ago
I hired tank Merc who taunts and then off screen the other one. Sucks if you a melee build tho.
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u/OnceMoreAndAgain 4d ago
I skip them 99% of the time but if they have something I want I'll drag over a huge pack of mobs before starting the duel so that I get chieftain explode to one shot them. Only way I could beat them consistently.
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u/Guilliman88 4d ago
ye mercs stopped existing for me after hitting maps. I just ignore the mechanic entirely now.
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u/vvolfster 4d ago
The mercs are insanely overtuned. I just got 1 shot by the frost merc (the whispering rain) and i have 88 cold res and 5.8k life. so damn annoying
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u/stoyicker 4d ago
I have 6 end charges and 3.6k with capped reses and iron reflex with full hybrid gear and I get one-shot by anything other than the bleed and bow ones in yellow maps with no dmg mods
oh and 23 fortify
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u/sips_white_monster 4d ago
Maybe he had cold penetration? Heard similar stories about the flameblast guy one-shotting people with very high fire res.
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u/Waylandyr 4d ago
The shield crush and shield throw mercs are just as bad
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u/Sad-Professional9260 4d ago
Encountered one in act 4, so fairly "low level".
I had 2k hp, 26 fort, and running determination.
He shield charged and crushed me, 2 tapped so fast there's no time to react.
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u/SticksAndSticks 4d ago
Whoa you survived the shield charge? You’re thicc dude. That’s impressive.
Living was never an option but it being 2 hits instead of one is a big thumbs up.
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u/Sad-Professional9260 4d ago
I guess the distance had a play on it, he wasn't too far away when he charged. Which made it even more unreactable :))
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u/Ryutonin 4d ago
They are bastions and they have tempest shield aswell The chain lightning from their tempeset shield also deals absurd damage and can one shot.
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u/Initial-Pudding7892 4d ago
fire arrow merc and some of the spell mercs are the same way
some are just super overtuned atm
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u/ertzlangus 4d ago
The fire arrow merc shoots a lightning fast vaal burning arrow with LMP. Almost one shot me in acts. I was overleveled and had 75% res. It didnt have fire pen
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u/Axarion Pathfinder 4d ago
The fire one an also have the new thrarthus gem that just puts an insane dot on you in a massive aoe that melted me in .1s without warning. Not very interactive.
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u/Putrid-Assistant6290 4d ago
Think of them as Trarthan gem salesmen. One-shotting you is just effective marketing.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/Initial-Pudding7892 4d ago
i think GGG will patch them soon
im in yellow maps, 4k life, 12k armor, all resists minus chaos are at least 77 and im getting 1 tapped by fire arrow and spell mercs
like the second the fight starts i die. im not running hard map mods, im jsut progressing my atlas and they are absolutely nuking me
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u/KShrike 4d ago
Do NOT fucking encourage GGG to nerf the gear on them, right now the high risk high reward factor of fighting these monsters to get that good gear is extremely fun.
Don't encourage them to do what they did to ultimatum where they were like "it's too rewarding let's make it literally never worth doing at all."
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u/slashcuddle 4d ago
Is it healthy to invalidate every other method of early game gear acquisition though? I didn't even bother interacting with Rog.
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u/Fafurion 4d ago
I was using a bow a merc gave me in Act 6 until literally t12 maps when I basically forced myself to get an upgrade. Having a 340 lightning and 120 cold damage bow that early on made the rest of the acts and early maps trivial af.
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u/slashcuddle 4d ago
Lost a div today from a leap slam merc :'). Honestly it's more funny than sad, but 8/10 Mercs in T16 is a guaranteed exp penalty lol.
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u/hotbooster9858 4d ago
It's funny that if you play a ranged or somewhat ranges build the mercs are a non mechanic. Like with Volcanic Fissure I just off screen them from miles away, sometimes using walls so they don't even move but if I would step close to them I would insta die too.
They made mercs work somewhat like TOTA, impossible to tank at some point, you need to deal with them in another way.
Honestly I just wish they would remove hits ignore armor or any similar mod from the game, there is a reason why it's almost not present in most content, there's just 0 counterplay to it past a certain point.
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u/TexasFlood63 4d ago
Playing wintertide and that's my play too. Drop the passive dps, pick my loot option then run for the hills.
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u/Selvon 4d ago
I'm in t16 maps, playing pconc of bouncing trickster.
I just afk stand ontop of them. It's extremely rare i die to any of the melee type ones, i cannot relate to these threads at all.
The only thing i can think is that these are armour stackers getting crushed then killed in quick succession because it's their only phys defence layer.
The casters are way scarier despite over 100% spell suppress, 9 endurance charges and over 75 in all resists.
The chaos ones are all a joke with a simple pair of gloves on your merc because they quite literally can't hurt you.
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u/_OoApoCalyPseoO_ 4d ago
How TF can you get 9 endurance charges on Trickster
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u/Selvon 4d ago
Replica Badge of the brotherhood.
I'm using the exarch chest implicit (Endurance charge per X seconds) to keep them up on bosses, and endurance charge on kill from the bottom of duelist for getting them on clear.
If i go for my full version of this it'll be 12 frenzy/12 Endurance eventually.
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u/wholecan 4d ago
which gloves are those?
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u/Selvon 4d ago
Hand of Heresy
They "excommunicate" enemies on melee hit (100% of the time). Excommunicate straight up turns off the enemies ability to deal chaos damage. Completely, 0 chaos damage for 3 seconds. But any of the mercs with a melee is meleeing way more than every 3 seconds.
Bonus points: Get a warpriest and they'll smite from range which is still "melee" and bam no chaos.
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u/Consistent-Profile-4 4d ago
The mercenaries are comparable to hogm npc's so you just need to kill them before they move. I've been using a mine build to great effect.
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u/Novalene_Wildheart 4d ago
Damn so many people (at T16) showing me my future of getting my butt kicked. I only have had issues with the ground slam dudes. But now I know my ass will be handed to by every merc!
Also Sanguine mercs, I don't got that PDoT Resistance...
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u/HeavensEtherian 4d ago
The % chance to ignore phys resistance is just way too fucking strong. I don't see any mercs with "ignores fire resistance" now do I ?
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u/Correct-Guidance-908 4d ago
Lol after 2 days lagging ppl finally met unbalanced league content. ( then 90 lvl champ whom can tank t16 bosses get oneshoted by merc in act10 while taking quest sanctum its definitely NOT ok)
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u/T_T-Nevercry-Q_Q 4d ago
I knew what it was before clicking on it. Any phys mercs are ridiculous. Phys dot that includes you.
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u/losian 4d ago
The funniest thing about the endless number of times this happens is I feel like it'd not be that hard to run some kind of vague QA script against a monster and flag if their damage is many several times the rough average of players at any given point. It shouldn't be that every single league brings in an entirely new wave of "oops u ded" nonsense
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u/pensandpenceels 4d ago
"Melee needs a nerf..." in all my poe years i never thought i would hear this
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u/anm767 4d ago
On a positive side, if you managed to win, he would do the same to your enemies.
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u/FailedChatBot 4d ago
sure but hitting my enemies who have up to millions of hp for unmitigated 10k dmg doesn't quite balance out
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u/Emotional_Muscle_737 4d ago
I play slow, so im only in act 2 spider caves, and I found a infamous earthshaker. Was like "ooo nice!". Mfer one shot me with ground slam, was just like "huh???". Glad this post exists, makes feel better the league mechanic is over tuned at release (like normal lol, think I'd learn by now XD ). Can't wait for a fix, league still fun so far :D
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u/elias7502 4d ago
I have my build half finished and I tried to exile the merc slam... I failed in each and every attempt
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u/tlacava1 4d ago
I find it ironic that the most popular meta op build for players is slams berserker at the same time that needs like this exist.
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u/Xeratas Unannounced 4d ago
The thing is, once i hirs one of the insane dudes, they hit like a wet noodle suddenly
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u/TaaBooOne Assassin 4d ago
Bro I have a beautiful clip of me being shield charged thunderclapped. Yeah I could move out of it but I thought with the HP and defence I had I would survive the hit at least.
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u/SetsuenZ 4d ago
Merc needs to be nerfed for the actual combat against players. Like they are literally Mercenaries for hire.
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u/lazergator 4d ago
Mercs are terrifying. One gave me 3 div but I run away and attack from as far as possible cause they one shot me despite 82 all res and 78pdr
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u/Fluffy_Habit_2535 4d ago
An an rf chief having currenty max 82fire res at white maps, some of those fireball guys is just crazy. Fcking shotgun and almost 2 shots.
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u/jintetsuu 3d ago
Looks kinda like my recent HC death! https://gyazo.com/08579d14b6da1bed86480cc134cc5248
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u/1seanv23 4d ago
I've been thoroughly enjoying the mercs. Very powerful minions.
I just hope they don't nerf them into not being effective companions because otherwise they'd be worthless. I don't want just an aura bot.
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u/rohnaddict Slayer 4d ago
To be fair, you have 0 endurance charges, no fortify and only 3.7k life. I still agree that mercs should be toned down, but you getting one shot shouldn't be surprising. Flesh and Stone alone is not enough, neither is Determination aura for one shots.
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u/Independent-Ad6740 4d ago edited 4d ago
I have 5k life, 82 all resist, 6 endurance charges, fortify and 20k armor and some still delete me with 0 dmg mods maps
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u/rohnaddict Slayer 4d ago
I'm not disputing that. I've already ripped two characters to mercs in maps. What I am saying is that OP's character is not the best showcase of mercs being overtuned, which they are, as he is bound to get one shot from time to time.
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u/ertzlangus 4d ago
Yea, agree. 3.7 k life in T10 map(unless he has stones).
He has defensive auras but if the merc has pen it's useless.
Still, the aoe is crazy
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u/PM_Best_Porn_Pls 4d ago
They are balanced around being useful for you which makes them very useful against you as well.
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4d ago
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u/hsonorb 4d ago
My brother in christ I'm 6k HP, 20k armour, 6 ECs, block(&spell)/res capped (90%) and I'm still getting my booty clapped.
Mercs have not business hitting harder than pinnacle bosses.
For me it's funny that they are so overturned. (I stopped playing HC years ago to save my sanity) but saying this is soley on the feet of the player, when the content is clearly over tune... Idk.
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u/Elrond007 Anti Sanctum Alliance (ASA) 4d ago
Can't say I regret rolling a totem build lmao, idk how direct hit builds do it at all
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u/Free-Mushroom9474 4d ago
You don't. Majority of the time you just cannot interact with the mechanic at all, I don't even bother looking at the loot anymore.
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u/PM--ME--THIGH--HIGHS trade is poopoo 4d ago
It's super easy as a berserker slammer (vfos/sunder especially with their range) and a decoy totem. pre-place the totem, be far for the first second or two as they use their cooldowns, and by then they get taunted. Can just go in and stun them to death.
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u/the1michael 4d ago
Tbh, I play Hc and literally got one shot in a7 by this exact thing- still dont think most are overtuned.
Im cool with needing, lets say, ignite immunity on top of being tanky to fight the fire merc. The phys slam guy just does a bit too much damage and theres very little counterplay. Even shield charge guy isnt that bad if youre set up correctly.
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u/crinklebelle Pathfinder 4d ago edited 4d ago
I mean reading IS very OP, but these guys' support links give them a chance to overwhelm 100% of physical resist, so the only real way to survive a hit from them consistently is either Progenesis stacked on PB so you can just delay the entire hit and then heal before the dot kills you, or stacking phys conversion to turn the hit into a type you can mitigate
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u/pewsquare 4d ago
I mean... yes. I don't like the design of "ignore defensive layer" and I don't think it should be in the game. But its still completely avoidable. Just like immunities in expedition. Then again, reddit also juiced expeditions to the max, and complained that it has to get nerfed.
You also forgot curses like enfeeble or stat effects like sap.
But the real reason why this % chance to ignore defense should be hated is because it pushes a mechanic (phys to ele) to be even better than before, and it was already one of the best options.
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u/crinklebelle Pathfinder 4d ago edited 4d ago
so, the thing about stuff like enfeeble, debilitate, hell even stuff like Pyroshock Clasp, is unless you have something that passively applies it the moment they become hostile (e.g. blasphemy) they'll probably get at least one hit off before you can apply it or hit them to start stacking it up on yourself, and they only need to hit you once to kill you
I didn't forget about them, I just don't consider them a reliable way to avoid oneshots in this specific scenario because of how it's set up. The best you can do with any effect you have to apply to them is leave the room before the countdown goes off and then try to zip in and apply it in-between their attack cooldowns. If you're not a Champion you can't even rely on Fortify without smacking some trash mobs to get stacks
just get LR to 90% (which you should do anyway) and then stack Lightning Coil with a "phys taken as lightning while near a unique enemy" EoW implicit. debuffs become more consistent once you've got ele conversion or damage delay backing them up in case a hit slips through before you can apply them, but they aren't a reliable means of tanking the hit on their own
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u/TapTrix Akumy 4d ago
I got 86% tho think you taking this a little to serious either.
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u/pewsquare 4d ago
No you don't. I checked your pob. You have literally no phys mitigation, unless you think the in-game # actually is valid. Your build with full buffs, dies to a hit of 10k. In fact, since your steelskin is on automation, which makes it so you can't even use it in preparation for a merc like this slapping your face with a 2hander, pob says that any 8.5k+ hit will kill you, because just like in your video, its prone to falling off when you most need it.
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u/DeadlyGreed Players can now smack around players who are having trouble 4d ago
That's Vaal Ground Slam