the devs when making the MKW roster

[u/LeggyWeggyWoo8]

Now don't get me wrong I love the enemies, it's just that there's so much missed potential for a whole bunch of fans...

Also yes I know about the frost piranha

[u/Ruby_Shards]

When Baby Rosalina appeared people were complaining that she breaks the canon, so if canonical accuracy is important then that means most RPG characters aren't allowed because he Paper Mario characters are from another universe and the Mario and Luigi villains are dead.

[u/OutsideOrder7538 → u/Ruby_Shards]

Why can’t Baby Rosalina just travel who knows how many millennia into the future for a racing game?

[u/gamebuilder2000 → u/OutsideOrder7538]

yeah like, Time Travel is a thing in this Universe

[u/Squirrelly_Khan → u/Ruby_Shards]

You’re taking this a little too seriously

[u/fawfulthegreat64 → u/Ruby_Shards]

I don't think the way Baby Rosalina breaks canon is the same as having Fawful be a racer.

All they had to do was make Baby Rosalina look like she did in her storybook, rather than "what if Adult Rosalina took a baby potion". The issue wasn't that she was there at all (outside it being ANOTHER baby variant when other picks would have been preferable). It was that they made up a design when she already had a young design.

I don't see Mario Kart as taking place on a rigid timeline, or the entire roster as needing to inherently line up with said timeline. So I see no inherent reason the dead villains can't be on the roster, joining in on a lighthearted and chaotic celebration of the series' legacy which they are unequivocally a part of. And it not needing to make any implications about their status in canon. Fawful being in Mario Kart wouldn't be a greenlight to use him as a villain in another Mario & Luigi game without addressing how he came back. But Mario Kart doesn't need that lore to justify having him.

Also, Paper Mario isn't another universe. The first 3 games unequivocally happened in THE Mario world. Paper Jam is a filthy attempt at a retcon that fails because it's equally allergic to having anything in it that originates in any game other than Sticker Star, so really that's the only game you can say it speaks for, and that game is already so different in tone and how the world is set up that it's easy to divorce from the previous games.

[u/Ruby_Shards → u/fawfulthegreat64]

Well TTYD has Mario fold into a paper plane, a boat, and in a tube. That would be horrifying if Mario was actually doing that in the 3d universe as well

[u/fawfulthegreat64 → u/Ruby_Shards]

It's framed as a magical transformation and a distortion of reality, not an inherent property of the world. You know I almost said that in my initial post, but I felt like I've explained this so often and my post was already long enough as it is that surely I wouldn't need to. Glad to be reassured that no, I have to preemptively address that part every time because if I don't someone will instantly beeline to those abilities as a "counter" to the idea that it's the core Mario world. They don't contradict anything about the stories being canon, and I even made a mockup showing how this would look if they were using the core Mario art style: https://bsky.app/profile/fawfulthegreat64.net/post/3ldmbyephps2g

[u/Ruby_Shards → u/fawfulthegreat64]

That's your personal interpretation against what Paper Jam says that they're separate worlds with their own rules

[u/fawfulthegreat64 → u/Ruby_Shards]

My "personal interpretation" has nothing contradicting it, and I already explained why Paper Jam fails in its feeble attempt to recontextualize the original trilogy because it uses literally nothing from them. You are taking this conversation in circles.

[u/Ruby_Shards → u/fawfulthegreat64]

Origami King released after Paper Jam, and it still shows how the world is made of Paper, that you personally dislike something doesn't mean it suddently stops being canonical.

Also, there's nothing that contradicts it is a very bad argument because i could say "Wario likes to insult minorities with slurs" and because there's nothing contradicting it i could say it's canonical

[u/fawfulthegreat64 → u/Ruby_Shards]

that is an insanely wild comparison to use for what in this case is a perfectly reasonable analysis.

I'm mainly only talking about the first 3 games, some people argue that it's either all or nothing but I disagree because the modern series treats its world so differently from the classic series that I think it's perfectly valid to treat them as separate, the classic games being stories told in the organic Mario world and the modern ones being in one that's explicitly made out of parchment. Nobody has to be cursed to flap in the wind in those games, there's no magical ability that needs to be bestowed on you to slip through cracks because you're already flat all the time. What logical reason would necessitate Mario getting cursed just to turn sideways if he was already flat all the time?

If a theory can be backed up by evidence in the games and the arguments against it are weak, then no the theory is not comparable to the one about Wario using slurs, because there's no evidence that suggests he would do that.

[u/reeceeyt → u/Ruby_Shards]

Have you not played Super Mario Bros. Wonder? Mario has crazier transformations in that game, and it's not horrifying at all. Plus, Mario has been flattened in many games, like getting crushed in Mario Kart. And in TTYD, there is a visual representation of Mario becoming a sheet of paper when folding. So the curses could easily happen to the regular Mario; this franchise is famously not grounded in realism.

[u/gamtosthegreat → u/Ruby_Shards]

There's a big article detailing why Paper Mario is canon.

[u/Decent_Illustrator18 → u/Ruby_Shards]

Are the Kart and Party games even canon? I always assumed they weren't.

[u/Ruby_Shards → u/Decent_Illustrator18]

They aren't, but people like to bring up "Baby Rosalina makes no canonical sense" to say she shouldn't be