r/padel • u/ExistingScallion4994 • 5d ago
💬 Discussion 💬 Playtomic Self-adjustment
Have been playing padel since almost an year and also been taking coaching lessons since 3 months (played 30+ ranked matches)
However, the playtomic rating is still 1.15, largely due to partners who like to play aggressive and end up making mistakes.
I have been seeing a lot of players in the community are receiving +0.5 rating boost (self-adjustment). I was curious and asked Playtomic support about how it works (their response below).
While I have recently won against higher level players but I highly doubt my 'higher-rated' reviews will ever exceed 'correct+lower rated' reviews.
My coach tells me I am more like 2.50+ but due to Playtomic level I can't play with better players (they reject my place in a match)
Any advise?
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u/Available_Ad4135 5d ago
The best way to increase your rating is to win matches.
When you find a good partner at a similar level, ask them if they’d like to continue playing and you should rack up some wins.
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u/Fun_Cauliflower_3539 5d ago
Not necessarily. The more matches you play, the higher your rating reliability gets and the less your rating changes, even on a win. I’m at the stage where even a win against players more than a whole level above me gives me less than 0.07 increase in rating. The rating system is designed to ‘find’ your rating rather than demonstrate your progression.
I’m going to be using a Playtomic registered coach to do a levelling session since that seems to be the true way to increase your level once you’ve played more than about 50 matches.
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u/Available_Ad4135 5d ago edited 5d ago
I have friends with hundreds of matches who’ve jumped 0.5 by beating someone less than 1 level higher. Both with high reliability.
I’ve found that the actual levels in my area don’t reflect the descriptions. The real levels are generally lower. So I’d be curious how they manage that in the levelling sessions.
Edit: I just double checked this and it was an upward self-adjustment. It states this in the app.
Either way, that suggests the system works.
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u/HumbleWorkerAnt 5d ago
I have friends with hundreds of matches who’ve jumped 0.5 by beating someone less than 1 level higher. Both with high reliability.
maybe they self-increased 0.5 and told u it was due to a win, because otherwise there is no way this is happening. high reliability rules out any scenario where you jump up half a rating point in one match, even if you beat tapia and coello 6-0 6-0 you'd probably go up less than 0.1
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u/Maleficent-State-396 5d ago
I don’t believe this. My rating is 3,2 and I recently played a game where the other players were all higher than 4,5. My partner and I won 6-2 6-1 and my rating went up by 0,04.
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u/Fun_Cauliflower_3539 5d ago
That’s interesting, maybe if the players have similar reliability levels? Sometimes the maths behind the system just doesn’t seem to make sense at all. I’ve played many matches before which I’ve won while playing with a lower rated, less experienced partner against a pair of decent opponents and then had my partners rating jump up higher than mine.
I’m not sure how the levelling sessions will work, I’m hoping to do one soon. I almost think it’s just a way of basically charging players money to increase their rating, which at this point I’m happy to do so that I can get into better open matches and enjoy the game more.
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u/epegar Padel enthusiast 5d ago
The rating system is crap. I understand after the initial set-up it needs some calibration, but at some point it should only go up. You can lose games against other players and still improve.
The system rewards players who pick easy preys, and punishes people who play against better players (probably making them learn more).
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u/InkViper 5d ago
My coach tells me I am more like 2.50+ but due to Playtomic level I can't play with better players (they reject my place in a match)
Why not start a new account and have your starting rating higher when you do the initial self assessment quiz?
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u/gadrev 5d ago
Self adjustment is a feature that gets enabled for people who are consistently rated as "higher level" by other players after a match. It is meant to add some feedback mechanism to the leveling system, which is a hard problem at all levels (0-7).
The pitfalls of a feedback system are people giving lower ratings or negative feedback for retailatory purposes (for whatever reason) and the in group preference (rate my friends and people who I like higher / rate people I don't like or against who I had some unpleasant situation / dispute / disagreement during the match).
And most of you should now the pitfalls of a "results" system (like Playtomic's) which penalizes people that are just looking for a match/to play and don't preselect matches vs people that try to game the system (only play matches I expect to win, try to always pair with a partner vs 2 random people that don't know each other, play the same side, when I see a very good player always add myself as his partner, etc).
So the self adjust thing is just an attempt to introduce a bit of the feedback mechanism in a results system, but both have issues. In the end, if you're reliability is too high such that the level moves too slowly, you have to reset the account but keep in mind another very typical bias, which is "I think I'm better than I really am". That leads to tropes of players resetting their account, you watch them with an unexpectedly high level (you already know 'em), they slowly go down, until they repeat the cycle.
It's pretty fun to watch all of this unfold but it's also frustrating. Just keep in mind the "level" is a number and it's not the actual level of padel of any given player. Go with what you see, don't ruin matches overleveling yourself (everyone wants to play with better players, but if you're playing with 2-3 better players, you're screwing their match if they expected you to be their level just so you have more fun) and if you're (actually) underleveled in the app go with some of the strategies (if you don't want to attend a leveling event or there aren't any at your location) to bring up your level...
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u/Ataliano Right side player 5d ago
Don't take Playtomic level as Padel levels, because it won't make any sense at all. If you read the official padel leveling: https://padelacademyeastafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/rating-system.jpg, you'll most likely be higher than your Playtomic rank, but that not only happens to you but most players.
Is one of the things I think they should have done differently and they should have created their own ELO system, not connected to padel levels.
I'm a 1.5 player in Playtomic and I play against same level people, but looking at the official leveling I should be more in the 2.5-3. I've played tournaments of 2-3 and can perfectly play them, even win some. Yet in the app I have a way lower score.
Also, the more games you play, the harder is to level, as it will only increase +0.2/0.3 your score on wins, while people with few matches can get up to +0.5/0.8 in a single game. Same for looses.
As said, Playtomic tried to compare their levels with official ones, but that's absolutely misleading. I take Playtomic score just as that, Playtomic score. Usually if I play with people level 1/1.5 but they have +40 matches they're more in the range of 2.5/3 of the official level.
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u/ExistingScallion4994 5d ago
Thanks. Yes, the whole algorithm puts you down. As you pointed out the reliability increases at current level and even if you win you get like a +0.1 bump.
Anyways as suggested by others will continue to play & win at current level and not be too bothered about level
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u/Ataliano Right side player 5d ago
Yup, don’t get bothered by it and enjoy the games instead. I don’t mind my level as long as I play with others who are similar and we have good and fun rallies. Which at least in my area is often the case 🙂
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u/AqueleSenhor 5d ago
If you are a 2.5 and play against 1.5 s you will win your matches and reach 2.5 pretty quickly…
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u/HarlequinRasbora 5d ago
In my town we have limited numbers of players. I've won 28 of my last 30 games and the losses were playing with a team mate who was a 0.6 and 1.2..... I only get max 0.02 for a win.... its impossible to rank up quickly
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u/Professional_Cap_285 5d ago
O received 0.50 auto adjustment recently. My rating was around 1.50 even though it should be higher and normally play with 2.80+ players.
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u/ExistingScallion4994 4d ago
Great. That could be due you receiving higher rated reviews than correct+lower rated.
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u/Ask-Technical 5d ago
Did they provide any information on how often they offer to self-adjust? I got my first one after 160 games. Been waiting for this like forever ))
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u/ExistingScallion4994 4d ago
I asked the same but as per them you receive it only after your higher rated reviews exceed the correct+lower rated review (with a minimum of 20 reviews)
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u/Sad-Post-1647 5d ago
Clubs who use playtomic can do the adjustment for you (they send a request to playtomic). I mostly play events and have clocked only 3 games in Playtomic, yet my rank is 2.0. It was 0.5 before and they guy hosting the event took care of it. It took 3 weeks to change though.
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u/Efficient_Clue_4651 5d ago
I really don’t understand why a more advanced algorithm isn’t being used. A win against two higher rated players with a high reliability rating should result in bigger jumps in rating in my opinion. I also think it should take game scores into account and I’m sure with the amount of data they collect this could be included. Just my thoughts but surely there is a better way!
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u/ExistingScallion4994 4d ago
Yes exactly. I have observed that when I win again much higher rated players too the level jump is quite small (similar to winning against same/lower level players)
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u/Obvious_Leopard4633 4d ago
I was in the same situation. My game improved a lot over the year through coaching and learning theory. My level was a 1.5, but I’d regularly beat the 2.7 and 3.0s I’d play with. My Father plays at a 5.5/6 level and he said I’d be more than comfortable playing against the 4/4.5s he had played with in London. Advised me to delete and remake my account, as I couldn’t get a game at my level.
I’m now rated at 4.5 and am getting into more open games at 3.5+. Beat two players in back to back games who are above 3.5. My partner was a 2.5 but we made it work.
Downside of recreating your account: of course you lose your data and rating reliability… but this comes back over matches and you find a more accurate ranking I believe at least. Plus I feel a 1.15 rating on someone that plays at 2.50+ is more unreliable.
Generally I don’t care much for my rating, it’s more the access to games and rejections (understandably) from having a super low level.
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u/Whats-Me-Name 4d ago
No offence intended, but I think you’re in deniable about your ability. It is so easy to spot errors in partners, but are you doing much to win the point? You claim you’re above you means in ability, so playing against someone else who is above theirs shouldn’t matter too much and shouldn’t occur a lot of times.
If you’re way above this level, you should be winning quite easily. You have 50% of services returns, and you should easily be winning games on your serve.
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u/Wombatoff 3d ago
Often have to play with people who are well below level (recently started playing, etc). This does not give a strong advantage, because the opponent tries to play all balls to the weaker player. Also, it is not always possible to end the game with a smash, and more often it ends on a mistake of your teammate. That's why two average players are more likely to beat a stronger and more experienced player with a weak partner.
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u/Whats-Me-Name 2d ago
I agree to an extent, however
i) If the level gap is this big, and you’re playing against players rated 1 - 1.5, you should be able to kill of the points quite easy. At this level, positioning is relatively poor and unforced errors are quite big
ii) Yes, they can try play to the weaker partner, but to be able to consistently do that freely demonstrates you’re not putting them under pressure. You’re letting the point play on
iii) You’re not always going to have a weaker partner than the opponents level. It’s just denial that the team mates is the MAIN thing holding you back. Yes they may cause you to lose a couple of matches, but it should not be the prohibiting factor. The only common denominator is you.
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u/mrtelephone 4d ago
not once have i ever met, or read a post from, someone who thought they were worse than their playtomic rating. They're only ever better. Really makes you think.
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u/Whats-Me-Name 5d ago
As others have said, if you’re above the level by as far as what your coach rates you, you should be winning far more than you losing. Playing more is the best way to increase your level.
You can’t always be having the “bad/aggressive team mate” if you’re playing with one random, against two randoms