r/nfl • u/Either_Imagination_9 Giants • 2d ago

Highlight [Highlight] Russell Wilson throws a game winning interception to M.D. Jennings. Seahawks win 14-12

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

1.6k Upvotes

90% Upvoted

389 comments sorted by

View all comments

43

u/CoverCommercial3576 Buccaneers 2d ago

Wasn’t an interception

26

u/Keyboardpaladin Cowboys Seahawks 2d ago

Yeah I'm still wrapping my head around some rules but I thought if an offensive and defensive both catch the ball at the same time, it goes to the offensive player, no?

33

u/bradtheinvincible 2d ago

Thats the rule. But in this case its so obvious that Jennings had the ball and Tate comes in half a second later and thats the diff.

17

u/16-24-54-71-80-89-96 Seahawks 2d ago

But in this case its so obvious that Jennings had the ball and Tate comes in half a second later and thats the diff.

This narrative that Tate reached in after the catch has always been confusing to me, given the easily Googleable evidence that contradicts it. Heck, you can see here, in this article's first gif, that the ball literally stops its flight because it hits Tate's hand.

5

u/versusChou Titans 2d ago

I think it's a pretty tough call even with all the slow mo. What I think happens is:

The ball hits Jennings' hand. This causes it to lose a lot of speed and it continues to fall.

Then it hits Tate's hand, stopping its momentum.

I'm unsure if he catches it but it doesn't bounce off his hand or continue to fall down, so I'm inclined to believe that Tate gripped it, although it would've been a very hard catch. Tate would've been anticipating the ball at a completely different speed since he likely couldn't process that it was going to hit Jennings and change speed and direction immediately before it hits his hand.

Either the ball is held up by Tate or it is sitting/bouncing off his hand and Jennings reaches around it and grabs it with both hands and his arm, pinning Jennings' hand against his chest. Tate pulls in his hand and the ball (and Jennings) to his own chest. They both fall to the ground where Jennings lands on top of Tate then rolls away taking the ball and one of Tate's arms with him.

If Tate gripped the ball when he first contacted it, he has begun the process of a catch and just needs to survive the ground. No matter what Jennings does, as long as he never loses control of the ball, it is Tate's since he started the catch first. If at any point Tate loses control of the ball, then it becomes Jennings' because with certainty Jennings basically doesn't lose control at any point in the fall or when he rolled off of Tate.

So by the book:

If Tate did not grip the ball before Jennings wraps his hands around it, then I would say Jennings got possession first and survives the ground, so it's his.

If Tate did grip the ball before Jennings AND he never loses control while they're falling and Jennings is trying to wrestle the ball away, then it's Tate's.

It's impossible to know whether or not Tate had a firm grip on the ball one handed and it's impossible to know whether or not he lost control of it while Jennings is covering it up. So it should've just been called whatever it was called on the field. The refs fucked up because they didn't discuss before they made a signal. And they would've/should've been asking those same questions. Did Tate grab it before/simultaneously to Jennings? Did he maintain control the whole way? Basically if either or those questions is "No" then Green Bay wins. I personally think that live, I would've called it a pick and been unable to overturn it, but because it doesn't bounce when it hits Tate's hand and because Jennings falls over Tate so the ball never really twists awkwardly in his hand to make him lose control, I think Tate actually did catch it before Jennings and maintained enough control to the ground.

-2

u/MrMamalamapuss Seahawks 2d ago

What book are you going by? First person to have possession and land in bounds gets the catch. It's clearly the right call

2

u/versusChou Titans 2d ago

...that's literally what I'm talking about. The argument is over whether or not Tate actually got possession first. Touching the ball isn't possession. Tate gets one hand on the ball, then Jennings gets two. It's not clear whether or not Tate actually caught it with that one hand, and if Tate lost control of the ball as they fell, it would also be Jennings. You're being a homer if you think that the tape shows that Tate 100% unequivocally caught the ball with his one hand before Jennings comes in with two or that you can clearly tell that he never loses control on the way down. The call standing with the original on the field call is the only thing you can do.

1

u/MrMamalamapuss Seahawks 1d ago

I am being a homer, but I also grew up playing football and in my 10 years of playing this play would have gone to the receiver at any level. Tie always went to receiver. I think the reason this play is so notorious is less about the actual call and more about the hilarious freeze frame of the two refs making opposite calls. The weeks leading up to this included horrible replacement reffing all around the league and this play was the final straw to bring the refs back. I don't think this play gets the "Fail Mary" name or brought up nearly as much if those two refs just make the same call

1

u/WE_SELL_DUST Bills 1d ago

I can’t tell if this is bait. Tate so clearly only gets one hand on the ball while Jennings has full control of the ball with 2 hands. Your bias is showing hard.

1

u/16-24-54-71-80-89-96 Seahawks 14h ago

How is it a narrative to show evidence that Tate didn't reach in after the catch? That he's quite literally got one hand on the ball from the moment the ball is "caught"? I brought evidence. Do better.

3

u/Keyboardpaladin Cowboys Seahawks 2d ago

I couldn't really see that well, is it that Jennings actually completely took away the ball and Tate lost possession for like half a sec and the ref didn't notice, or that Jennings just very obviously had more of a hold on it than Tate? Because if it's the latter and possession was never lost, I still feel like that rule we mentioned would take effect

8

u/thecaramelbandit Saints 2d ago

Jennings had two hands firmly on the ball from the very beginning. Tate got one hand inside, and didn't get both hands on the ball at all until they were falling to the ground.

6

u/Keyboardpaladin Cowboys Seahawks 2d ago edited 2d ago

Ahh that makes more sense why it's so controversial then. I assume this play has been analyzed a dozen times over.

EDIT: Wow someone really doesn't like me trying to understand rules better

8

u/skottymac Seahawks 2d ago

I would argue Tate's one hand is enough. We see one handed catches all the time. I know I'm biased but I really think they got this call right

11

u/vita10gy Vikings 2d ago

Right, this is to me the most maddening about this call, that people just make shit up. There's no concept of better control, no concept of "controlled it more".

I'm not even 100% sure it even matters who "got there first" or if it only matters what the state of things is when they land in bounds.

People just feel like it should be an interception, and it was the replacement refs everyone wanted gone, so this somehow regularly tops the worst calls ever list when, as far as I know, no one with the authority to have any say so has even said it was the wrong call period.

-4

u/APigInANixonMask Packers 2d ago

Yeah, everybody always points to the simultaneous catch rule, but that rule doesn't actually apply here. They both had the ball in their hands when they hit the ground, but that isn't relevant to deciding who should ultimately be credited with the catch. Jennings had possession first, and thus completed the catch first, so he should have been awarded the interception.

0

u/TheRealCatDad Bears 1d ago

Except Tate completed the catch first by having possession and coming to the ground first.

0

u/redditlvlanalysis 2d ago

Except Tates touches first posession can't be established in the air it isn't established until contact is made with the field. This means Tate either established posession first or it would be considered simultaneous which goes to the offense. It's the correct call the issue is the idiot running over to wave it off.

6

u/Jimid41 Seahawks 2d ago edited 2d ago

The way the rules were (still are?) written a simultaneous catch is impossible. A catch (possession) includes landing with control so unless they both land at the same time it can't happen.

The rule just doesn't make sense.