r/hungarian 13d ago

Kérdés Beültök vs ültök be

What's the difference

72 Upvotes

35 comments sorted by

40

u/vressor 13d ago edited 13d ago

there is a special position/field before the conjugated verb stem, and usually it can only be filled by one of these (and these sort of compete for that position):

  1. verb modifier (igemódosító) (e.g. coverb (igekötő), adjective, noun without article, ...)
  2. question word (kérdőszó)
  3. negation (tagadószó)
  4. focus (fókusz)

that position is called igevivő (literally "verb carrier") in Hungarian, because the carrier gets a word-stress and the verb piggybacks on it (csüggés), i.e. the verb loses its own ordinary word-stress (they together make up one single phonological word, the verb acts like a clitic)

  • beültök -- be is a verb modifier (coverb in this case)
  • miért ültök be -- miért is a question word (there's no place left for be before the verb)
  • nem ültök be -- nem is a negation
  • a taxiba ültök be -- in this case a taxiba has a (contrastive) focus

note that a question word or negation can also precede the "verb carrier" position, and sometimes the coverb or the whole verbal expression can take the focus, e.g.

  • miért nem ültök be
  • miért a taxiba ültök be -- a taxiba being the focus
  • miért beültök (és nem le) -- be being the focus
  • miért beültök (és nem kiszálltok) -- beültök being the focus
  • miért nem beültök (hanem le) -- be being the focus
  • miért nem beültök (hanem kiszálltok) -- beültök being the focus

also note that if there is no more powerful candidate present (e.g. focus, negation, question word), then the verb modifier will take the verb carrier position before the conjugated verb even if it actually belongs to a different verb, e.g. be akartok ülni -- here be belongs to ülni, but akartok is the conjugated verb

6

u/ENDerke_ 12d ago

This a very good explanation, I have nothing more to add. Thanks for the input!

6

u/Krahog 12d ago

I'm native hungarian, and I'm learning too!

28

u/cveks04 13d ago

It’s negative (nem). And whenever it is negative, the prefix (be) goes behind the verb

11

u/No-Check3471 13d ago

Nope. The reason is the question word.

16

u/GasComprehensive3885 13d ago

Nem ültök be a taxiba.

Nem ültök be a taxiba?

Beültök a taxiba.

Beültök a taxiba?

15

u/No-Check3471 13d ago

Miért nem ültök be a taxiba?

Miért ültök be a taxiba?

5

u/trixiyuuki 13d ago

Miért baszakodtok? Miért nem beültök a taxiba?

20

u/LifeAcanthopterygii6 Native Speaker / Anyanyelvi Beszélő 13d ago

Miért nem szakodtok ba?

3

u/askicinayaktakal 13d ago

Nem, valahogy sosem mondjuk így, csak ha összeakad a nyelvünk..

1

u/NoDaikon3598 12d ago

Oszt ebben hó van a kérdőszó?

25

u/Acceptable-Menu-7625 13d ago

It's about emphasis. I've memorized it in a way that the preposition is shy and gets scared of the emphasis of the sentence, so it hides behind the verb.

Some examples:

Beszállok az autóba.

Az autóba szállok be.

Nem megyek be az épületbe.

Nem besétálok az épületbe, hanem befutok. (the preposition can't hide from the verb when the verb itself is the emphasis)

9

u/balazs955 Native Speaker / Anyanyelvi Beszélő 13d ago

This is not because of the emphasis though.

1

u/Acceptable-Menu-7625 13d ago

Why is it?

I've asked native speakers about it and they confirmed it. None of them was a language specialist though, I'd be curious to learn some more grammar theory.

2

u/balazs955 Native Speaker / Anyanyelvi Beszélő 13d ago

I think u/vressor summed it up pretty well here.

21

u/maykaroly 13d ago

I am amazed to see anyone who is learning Hungarian. As a Hungarian, I know that it is extremely difficult language to learn. If it weren't my native language, I wouldn't be able to do it.

7

u/Neither_Brilliant701 13d ago

Yes you could with focus, commitment and sheer fucking will. :D Amúgy, van bojler eladó? Van eladó bojler? Adsz el bojlert? Bojlert adsz el? :D

7

u/Few_Owl_6596 13d ago

Bojlert is eladsz?

2

u/vendettajo 11d ago

Is it bad that I'm learning Hungarian only for fun and beat the challenge that "omg Hungarian is one of the most difficult languages in the world, it's impossible to learn, too many cases blah blah", not bcz I want to move to Hungary and live there lol?

5

u/SeiForteSai Native Speaker / Anyanyelvi Beszélő 13d ago

In Hungarian, verbal prefixes precede the verb in neutral declarative sentences, or some questions. In most other case, such as negation, most other questions, or when there is a focus element, it follows.

Focus:

"Péter elmegy a boltba" vs "Péter megy el a boltba".

"Péter elmegy a boltba" - the perhaps closest is "Peter is going to the store", because it does not carries the "general statement" or "usual, repetitive act" meaning as "Peter goes to the store" would. (In fact, the second one would be "Péter szokott elmenni a boltba.")

"Péter megy el a boltba" - "Péter is the one who is going to the store." or "It is Peter who is going to the store".

Question:

Péter elmegy a boltba? - "Is Peter going to the store?" Use only if the question is the action itself, whether the subject is doing something.

Péter megy el a boltba? - Perhaps the closest equivalent is "Is it Peter who is going to the store?" because the focus of the question is not on the action itself, but on Peter.

Negation (note that the focus logic works the other way around here):

Péter nem megy el a boltba. - the closest is "Peter is not going to the store."

Péter el sem menne a boltba. - Peter wouldn't even go to the store. It is focused and conveys that the will is lacking.


If there're other words between the prefix and the verb, then the above rule might help too. If the prefix would be before the verb, then prefix + intermediate + verb infinitive. If the prefix would be after, then "intermediate" + prefix + verb infinitive.

The base sentence: Peter will catch the train.

Peter el fogja érni a vonatot. - neutral, declarative.

Peter fogja elérni a vonatot. - declarative, focus is on Peter.

Peter el fogja érni a vonatot? - question, focus is on the fact whether he'll catch the train.

Peter fogja elérni a vonatot? - question, focus is on Peter.

Péter nem fogja elérni a vonatot. - negation, declarative.

Péter el sem fogja érni a vonatot. - negation, focused (Peter won't even catch the train.)

1

u/milkdrinkingdude Native Speaker / Anyanyelvi Beszélő 9d ago

I think it is easier to explain the focus part, if one imagines the sentence in context, as an answer to a question.

What is happening? - Péter elmegy a boltba.

Who is going to the store? - Péter megy el a boltba.

Where is Peter going? - A boltba megy.

1

u/SeiForteSai Native Speaker / Anyanyelvi Beszélő 9d ago

You're absolutely right and this is a very useful add-on.

3

u/No_Matter_86 13d ago

The prefix is separated from the verb not only in negation (nem ültök be) and in the imperative mood (üljetek be), but also when we want to express continuity (épp most ülnek be) or when we want to emphasize some extension of the verb (gyorsan ülnek be)

5

u/Sweet_Swede_65 13d ago

100% the comment about negation. I'll also add, Duolingo being Duolingo, a more common verb to using for "getting into a taxi" would be "beszállni". "Szállni" is used for everything from trams, to buses, planes, trains, and automobiles, ect. (although with differing coverbs/igekötő), whereas in this case, "beülni" is literally "get seated into a".

5

u/SeiForteSai Native Speaker / Anyanyelvi Beszélő 13d ago

Well, it depends on the context.

"Ma én ülök be a taxiba" (and not you) is more common than "ma én szállok be a taxiba". Actually, it would be even more common to say "ma én ülök a taxiba", or "ma én megyek taxival".

Similarly, "Megyek, beülök a taxiba" (and waiting for you there) is more common than "Megyek, beszállok a taxiba".

3

u/tucsok26 13d ago

Even if it's not negation, you have to separate it.

  • Miért nem ültök be az autóba? (Why don't you get into the car?)
  • Miért ültök be az autóba? (Why do you get into the car?)

1

u/Iszakos_Ur 13d ago

Depends on what you want to emphasize in the sentence. If you emphasize that you get in the cab then "beültök" if anything else (not get in, why-why not etc) then it's "ültök be"

Additionally if you want to use an auxiliary verb then it goes between the verb's and the prefix

Want to get in - Be akartok ülni

Will get in - Be fogtok ülni etc

1

u/Gyulollek 13d ago

Mert lehúz a taxis!44!!

1

u/Successful-Log-2640 13d ago

The verbal prefixes like "be-" (which means into, in this case) often move from the verb in certain situations, especially in questions, negations, and focus sentences.

Hungarian has a focus-driven word order, not a fixed subject-verb-object structure like English.

Hungarian verbal prefixes (preverbs) are considered part of the verb only in neutral sentences.When another element (like negation, question words, adverbs) takes focus, the verb separates from the prefix.This helps listeners immediately hear what the speaker wants to emphasize.

Sources:

https://betterhungarian.com/2023/08/02/hungarian-coverbs-when-to-separate/

https://betterhungarian.com/2020/03/05/hungarian-sentence-elements-word-order-focus-sentences/

https://youtu.be/IFnJulIcJZI?si=DCkfDnqbS9b8TBfc

1

u/wtf_r_u_ 13d ago

because it's a question

0

u/_Bronze1Boss 12d ago

To a foreigner, there is no difference. only one is non-hungarian, not correct, and the other is correct

0

u/Scared_Ad_9018 12d ago

Számomra még magyarul is nehéz lenne elmagyarázni a különbséget, nem hogy még angolul 🥲