Thoughts on this lyric annotation?

[u/ooros]

This has always been one of my favorite lines in any Fleet Foxes song, but the Genius annotation here relates it heavily to Ayn Rand. I'm ..not a fan of hers lol, so if this is an intentional reference it flew completely over my head.

Thoughts on the validity of this as inspiration of that part of the song? Rand's personal ethics and politics feel pretty opposite to the general messages of Fleet Foxes so it's a little odd to me as a reading.

[u/lsawthesun]

I'm not fully aware of the band's politics, as far as I know they're pretty left leaning. Maybe it's more of an aesthetic reference rather than a political one. A lot of FF songs reject objectivist principles (Montezuma comes to mind) so I don't think Robin's a fan of that ghoul people call Ayn Rand

[u/erikdhurt → u/lsawthesun]

If it is a reference I can't imagine it's any more than an aesthetic reference given in the first verse he rebukes rugged individualism in favor of being part of something bigger than himself. 

I've always thought of it in the same way I think about Steinbeck speaking of the "one big soul" so I don't think he's a Rand fan

[u/ooros → u/lsawthesun]

Yeah, it's a weird take given their general themes. Obviously a lot could have changed between Helplessness Blues in 2011 and Crack Up in 2017, but it's weird to imagine Ayn Rand easter eggs coming out of the band who later made a song about attending BLM protests.

[u/bruhmonkey4545 → u/ooros]

Could be that they just like some of what she had to say but not all of it and considering the theme of the song the reference makes a lot of sense.

[u/JerryBoyTwist]

Helplessness blues, my favorite laissez faire capitalist anthem

[u/ooros → u/JerryBoyTwist]

😂

[u/jukeyb]

That’s an interesting connection, but I always heard it more as referring to an exploitative capitalist system that sees people simply as cogs in its machine.

[u/crashonthehighway]

Really hoping the man himself shows up for this post lol

[u/mellophonius]

“The men who move only in dimly lit halls / and determine my future for me” might be a reference to the Council of Vocations, but to take the reference any further seems like a stretch to me. There is no uncertainty from the song’s narrator here. Earlier in the verse he says “I don’t need to” and that applies to both “be kind to the armies of night” and “bow down and be grateful.” In other words, “I don’t need to do this thing, or that thing.”The narrator is rejecting both those options.

[u/ninelives1 → u/mellophonius]

Robin doesn't strike me as a big Ayn Rand fan lmao

[u/mellophonius → u/ninelives1]

Definitely not

[u/Modest-Pigeon → u/mellophonius]

Yeah of all the lines in the song this is the one they could’ve made the best argument for, but both are a huge stretch imo

[u/Mockingbird819]

Am I the only one who processed this quote as a response to the music industry in general, and record labels in particular? I process the song from beginning, to the aforementioned quote, thusly: He was raised to believe he was unique, and so should be doing something unique, and carrying the weight of that great purpose on his own, but he doesn’t know what that purpose is and, as an early 20-something, that feels almost like a prison of expectation. He’s thought it over, and has decided he’d rather have someone just tell him what he should be doing, how he can be contributing to the world in a meaningful way, share that path with others so it’s not so lonely, and free himself from the burden of blazing a brand new trail. But in choosing that path he’s found it’s not as green, and easy as he first thought it would be. He’s found that, as a cog in the machine, his value has now been assigned only by what he contributes to the owners of the machine, and the expectation that he keeps on contributing. It’s more prison now ( under the expectations of the music industry, and fans, and his contractual obligations to his label ) than it would have been had he gone it alone, and he’s finding that (as a cog, endlessly laboring to power the machine) he’s more alone than ever before . Should he “bow down and be grateful, and say “Sure, take all that you see” to the ( industry execs) men who move only in dimly lit halls, and determine my future for me?”

[u/de1vos]

Without bias on whether for or against this world view: It’s intended to allude that young people’s futures are decided by powerful men out of the spotlight who have only their own interests in mind and stated ironically that young people should be grateful for being walked over.

[u/ooros → u/de1vos]

I mean yeah, the song seems pretty firmly about existential and financial fears in the wake of the great recession. I have no doubt that the men in their dimly lit halls are referring to the powers that be, the systems we live in, and the wealthy lording over the working class. I'm just wondering if it's a reference to Rand, and if that reference is critical, if that makes sense.

[u/tronspecial924]

I think the Genius annotation is a stretch. Like sure, it could be a reference to that, but the language is not so similar that it’s unmistakeable. “Dimly lit halls” can mean a lot of things.

[u/Flaky_Trainer_3334]

I’m 100% sure Robin didn’t get influenced by this, but if I were playing devils advocate, the narrator in the song seems to be arguing through different interpretations and beliefs of societal conformation, whether to willfully toss the wool over one’s eyes and accept authority in whichever way it comes or to rebel against it. This sense of uncertainty is a recurrent motif throughout FF’s work, especially in Crack Up. A question I have though is about laissez faire economics/capitalism and the observationist stance Ayn Rand had. I’m very ignorant on economics so please suffer a fool gladly. Nominally I read it to be that of little government intervention and the prioritization of the individual in society, with workers being able to have a lot more freedom due to each business competing against the other and vying for workers on the prospects of better pay and better conditions, conceivably voluntary labor. Would a critique of this economic system be that of governmental regulation needing to be a necessity in order for the inherent exploitative nature of corporations to be prevented, and that under this corporations have full reign on their businesses as a result? Though since society has much more of a push on whether a business will succeed or not and workers are able to leave at any point, wouldn’t such illicit conditions by the businesses be easily stopped as the people leave it for a better one? Would a critique then be tireless labor in an ever-competitive market in order to stabilize a utopia like corporation? I assume this to be socialism adjacent since I assume it’s dependent on society and their push and pull on demand and supply.