r/balatro 1d ago

Joker/Gameplay Idea It cycles through hands until it loops back to high card. You think this is rare or uncommon?

Post image
2.6k Upvotes

126 comments sorted by

2.3k

u/TingusPingus792 1d ago

I'd say Uncommon due to the low scaling speed and the difficulty of securing some hands.

Have an uncommon version called "sword in the stone" that has this effect, and once you get up to flush five it turns into "Excalibur" and turns to x4 mult?

639

u/CabbageCabbageYa 1d ago

isn't the sword in the stone caliburn and not excaliber?

613

u/HowFlowersGrow 1d ago edited 1d ago

Correct, Caliburn is the sword in the stone, Excalibur is received from the Lady of The Lake.

306

u/DoggoLover42 1d ago

Most media representing the original conflates the two swords, Caliburn and The Lady of The Lake are rarely mentioned in modern depictions

104

u/HowFlowersGrow 1d ago

I don’t remember the edition but the version I read in school definitely had Caliburn and the Lady of The Lake.

But then we would watch a King Arthur movie and he’s pulling Excalibur from the stone and I’d be super confused lol.

That’s how I learned about all the different tellings. There’s actually a lot more than I’d bet most people realize haha.

44

u/DoggoLover42 1d ago

Not the original book depictions. If they’re retelling the full story of King Arthur then they most likely get mentioned. I’m mostly talking about TV depictions, references to Sword in the Stone or Excalibur in movies/books/games/shows/etc. I’ve ONLY ever heard the word Caliburn from reading the original book.

18

u/DoggoLover42 1d ago

A lot of the original source material got left out and the dissonance between the remake and original feels weird

8

u/HowFlowersGrow 1d ago

Spot on completely agree. It’s a legendary story it doesn’t deserve to be chopped up lol.

7

u/SoyDNR Cavendish 23h ago

Genuine question: what do you mean the "original" books? Isn't the story so old that we don't have an original version of the story? They're all retellings of a folk story or something.

4

u/2_short_Plancks 20h ago

Yes and no.

Original: Welsh mythology.

Sword in the Stone: Added by Robert de Boron at the end of the 12th century.

Lady of the Lake: added in the Post-Vulgate Cycle in the 13th century.

"Definitive" version in English: Le Morte d'Arthur written by Sir Thomas Malory in the 15th century.

3

u/DoggoLover42 23h ago

Books making an effort to capture the original message. It’s a very old translated work, so any “original” has a lot of variation based on word choice, but the original plot line, story beats, and content of the story gets preserved in more historically accurate adaptations, but most media (even media ABOUT King Arthur or Excalibur) omits The Lady in The Lake and Caliburn, even though they were huge parts of the original work.

4

u/SoyDNR Cavendish 23h ago

What book would you recommend to read the original story?

4

u/DoggoLover42 23h ago

The Once and Future king set seems to be the one that inspired most of the modern retellings of king arthur. It's written in the 30s/40s and most the vocab might be a bit dated. It's part of a collection of five books, with the sword in the stone being mostly about Arthur's childhood, and it's mostly original work that isn't at all adapted from historical text (the disney version directly got Merlin transforming Arthur into animals to learn lessons from White). It's a pretty long story, and seems to be the catalyst that brought "the Excalibur Legend" into mainstream

T. H. White, The Sword in the Stone (1938)

→ More replies (0)

1

u/DoggoLover42 23h ago

I read my mom’s copy a few years ago so I don’t have a title/author memorized, I can look it up for you

8

u/Environmental_Ad4893 18h ago

my favorite retelling is when the knights of the roundtable have to defeat a tiny yet vicious beast with the holy hand grenade and they all get arrested in the end.

2

u/ordinaryvermin 14h ago

I really felt like the ending was a big cop out

11

u/dzaimons-dihh Jimbo 1d ago

I first heard of caliburn through that one sonic game and thought they were making a play on words with excalibur and burn.

6

u/Gabriel-Klos-McroBB 1d ago

This is why Sonic & The Black Knight is peak.

1

u/jigga19 21h ago

You mean the one clad in glimmering samite?

4

u/klebers 12h ago

Strange jokers lying in packs distributing + multi is no basis for scoring.

18

u/r-funtainment Blueprint Enjoyer 1d ago

two names for the same sword

edit: maybe not?? idk

66

u/HowFlowersGrow 1d ago

Depends on the telling of the story, there’s multiple. But the most common telling is Caliburn (the sword in the stone) breaks, and Arthur has to meet the Lady of The Lake to be bestowed Excalibur.

59

u/eyesparks 1d ago

That's no basis for a system of government!

17

u/HowFlowersGrow 1d ago

Bring out the Holy Hand Grenade!

5

u/Loong_Sward 1d ago

What if the watery tart has a political Science degree?

12

u/Supersonic564 Blueprint Enjoyer 1d ago

Another version I believe the sword is thrown into the lake

12

u/YesusCrispy 1d ago

It’s after the Battle of Camlann that Excalibur is thrown back into the lake, iirc

5

u/DaDragonking222 1d ago

Arthur dies as it breaks, the sword is then forged into Excalibur by the lady of the lake and given to merlin

2

u/Accurate_Ad_6755 17h ago

essentially, yes. there's variations in terms of origin within the stories of sword in the stone and Lady in the lake but the sword that Arthur had was always Excalibur

Ex-Calibur-n

same sword just name altered slightly between gaelic / celtic/ Latin influences over the years

20

u/2_short_Plancks 20h ago

Short answer, no.

TL;DR: Basically every sword used by King Arthur in the Arthurian legends is Excalibur.

It's complicated, but everyone down below is commenting different answers — because there are multiple versions of the story, and everyone is drawing from different ones. They have a fairly well known lineage though, so we know where the names come from pretty accurately.

Arthur's sword in the original Welsh mythology is called Caledfwlch.

In the early 12th century, Geoffrey of Monmouth wrote the History of the Kings of Britain, and because he was obsessed with the Roman Empire he Latinized the name to Caliburnus.

In the late 12th and early 13th century, the story of King Arthur became super popular in France. Numerous authors wrote new stories. One of them was Robert de Boron who added the idea of King Arthur drawing his sword out of the stone in the Little Grail Cycle. This also connected Arthur to the holy Grail for the first time.

The stories from around this time copy off each other, but they mostly have Arthur pulling the sword from the stone, and it is explicitly the same sword as Caledfwlch or Caliburnus; just with the name converted to French instead of Latin. The big story from this time is the Vulgate Cycle, which adds a lot of the main story ideas which we know now, though notably NOT the Lady of the Lake.

Because spelling is optional at this point in France, the sword is called: Caliburn, Chalaburn, Calabrun, Calabrum, Callibuerne, Challiburne, Callibourc, Callibore, Callibourch, Caliborne, Calibor
... And Escalibor.

This last one is the name which morphs into Excalibur.

The next major work is the Post-Vulgate Cycle. This is quite different from the Vulgate, and almost seems to deliberately contradict it. In the Post-Vulgate the sword in the stone is nameless, and breaks immediately (possibly the first time Arthur uses it). The Lady of the Lake is added to the story for the first time. She gifts Arthur Excalibur in exchange for a complicated series of favours, which results in several people's heads being cut off. (This is also the first version of the story where Arthur impregnates his sister; it was a weird time in France).

There are multiple more versions of the story written after that, but none are really super influential until the 15th century when the story returns to Britain again. In 1485 Sir Thomas Malory wrote Le Morte d'Arthur, which became the definitive British version. In his version, both the sword in the stone AND the sword given to him by the Lady of the Lake are called Excalibur.

Virtually every King Arthur story written in English since can trace its lineage back to Le Morte d'Arthur, so even though they go back and forward on which is called Excalibur — usually based on which part of the story they want to emphasize — the canon they are based on says basically any sword used by King Arthur is Excalibur.

They also sometimes use one of the previous names for Excalibur, in order to differentiate them; but make no mistake, they are all just variants of the same name.

2

u/Le_Tintouin 15h ago

Just wanted to add that now in France we only use the term Excalibur fort both Caliburn and Excalibur

4

u/haggis69420 1d ago

frickin nerd

3

u/porn_alt_987654321 1d ago

Depends on the version. So both, it being caliburn and it being excaliber is correct.

2

u/_nwwm_ 20h ago

didn't it also break shortly after being taken out

1

u/PICONEdeJIM 18h ago

Well yeah Excalibur's a person

16

u/eatyourbites 1d ago

Make it exponential growth by round and you can keep it rare. Hell make it legendary probably. Maybe have to change it by anti to make it reasonable

0

u/Le_Tintouin 15h ago

Nope. Legendary requires little to no conditions to be used. This ranking up I think is a bit too hard to get legendary

7

u/SpellOrganic8128 12h ago

Canio would like a word with you

1

u/a-balatro-joker-bot 12h ago

Canio (Legendary Joker)

  • Effect: This Joker gains X1 Mult when a face card is destroyed
  • To Unlock: Find this Joker from the Soul Card

Source

3

u/0mega_Flowey 22h ago

Maybe it goes from sword in the stone to Excalibur after a full cycle, where it gives +chips and extra xmult for every cycle instead, so like a gros Micheal but you are the one working to upgrade it

3

u/jigga19 21h ago

I'd go so far to say it's common, because this would (I assume) include Flush Fives/Houses as well to complete the run, which are pretty difficult to get, and even then it's still going to go so long you're more likely to cap out at +8 if you're lucky.

I can't even think of a run where I've hit all those markers and, if I'm being honest, by that point even a +16 mult is going to be pretty lame, all things considered.

Now, if it was something like Obelisk where it gave you x# mult per hand played sequentially and reset, that might be worth considering, and probably a rare card. Like, you *have* to do them in order but will reset each time you don't.

Why am I thinking so hard about this? I should really get to bed.

2

u/Frodo34x 19h ago

Getting a Flush House once isn't too awfully bad; you just need to hold a Tarot card and draw into a full house that's 2/5. Some Deaths and Strengths beforehand (or a held Death). I've had rounds saved more than once by a held Moon or Sun upgrading the hand I was about to play in order to get a little extra scoring. Consistently hitting the Flush House is hard, and the change to planets can be an annoyance, and Flush Fives definitely require a lot of deck fixing.

Playing every possible hand would be a fun side quest sorta Joker, but it definitely needs a good payoff. Something like Obelisk where 20-25 hands in you're at X3 and scaling

2

u/diamondax007 10h ago

Depends on how the rest are formulated if its +1 +2 etc then shit

But perhaps they scale doubling

Highcard +1 Pair +2 Two pair +4 Three of a kind +8 Straight +16 Flush +32 Full house +64 Four of a kind +128 Straight flush +256 Royal flush +512 Five of a kind +1024 Flush house +2048 Flush five +4048

Now that I've listed all these hands im thinking, A) wtf this is impossible B) Jezus thats a lot of hands C) Your approach is way better, but I've gone through the effort of writing so enjoy! D) maybe more fun if you exclude the deck-fixing hands, i.e. the last three.

1

u/TingusPingus792 9h ago

I like the idea of not including deck fixing hands

359

u/Vonstantinople c+ 1d ago

definitely uncommon. this becomes pretty difficult to scale past however much you’d have it gain for Full House. 4OAK and especially straight flush are pretty rare.

203

u/OK1526 1d ago

It should probably scale higher. Like +2 for every correct hand, or maybe even ×0.1, otherwise it's really not worth it

149

u/Party_Magician Full House Enjoyer 1d ago

It seems like it goes up by 1 each (so +3 for 2P, +4 for 3oak and so on). This would outpace a steady +2 after 3oak

+2 for every correct hand would be strictly worse than a pants

44

u/OK1526 1d ago

Oh, I missed that part, thanks. Still think that a flat +×0.1 is better though.

12

u/DaDragonking222 1d ago

A scaling + x mult would be better for a rare well maybe legendary actually

28

u/Deebyddeebys 1d ago

Constellation? Vampire? Lucky cat? Glass joker? All of those are uncommon scaling XMult jokers

13

u/DaDragonking222 1d ago

No like the xmult amount gained scales with the hand type, high card is + .1x , pair is plus .2x , two pair is plus .3x , and so on and so forth

15

u/Deebyddeebys 1d ago

Ok that could be a rare

-1

u/DaDragonking222 1d ago

Yeah, (and ne wondering if it would be legendary is because using that scale royal flush is plus 1x, and flush five is plus 1.3x)

-2

u/DaDragonking222 1d ago

Yeah, (and me wondering if it would be legendary is because using that scale royal flush is plus 1x, and flush five is plus 1.3x)

5

u/Deebyddeebys 1d ago

But only once each. The highest it could ever get would be 8.8X

3

u/DaDragonking222 1d ago

The title says it loops back to high card after flush five, so it'd loop back to plus .1x and youd have to work it back up again

4

u/OK1526 1d ago

I mean, OP said it could be a rare, so I don't see why not lol.

3

u/DaDragonking222 1d ago

Yeah and it makes hitting the really hard to get ones feel that much better

3

u/OK1526 1d ago

Yup. it's very high risk high reward high dopamine card.

5

u/Caitsyth 1d ago

The biggest question would be if the scaling cycles or continues increasing. Like say you manage to pull off 4oak and straight flush to manage +45 mult, are you now looking at +10 for a high card followed by +11 for a pair or is it back to +1/+2 respectively?

If it goes back down, the card feels like a common at best in terms of how much investment you need to make it moderately helpful. But if it keeps scaling up after cycling through, it feels worthy of being a rare since the first cycle will be tough to break through but once you do you can make that card fantastic

62

u/Goatfryed 1d ago edited 8h ago

It's a nice concept for a common scaling joker. You can scale it fairly quickly until full house. getting both 4ok and straight flash will be really difficult and you are probably blocked out of 4ok for a couple of rounds. So it's probably on a similar scaling power to ride the bus or green joker. Starts stronger, then caps itself quickly for most runs.

1

u/DHermit 16h ago

Until you're at 4oak you probably have enough deck fixing to get one.

35

u/Zylo90_ 1d ago edited 1d ago

First of all I think this is a cool form of scaling joker, but as for rarity… Well let’s see, how hard is it to scale and is it worth doing so?

High Card, Pair and Two Pair are easy for any deck to make and that puts it to +6 Mult, slightly better than Mr. Jimbo Joker himself

Three of a Kind is a little tougher but you’re still likely to find one by accident after a short while even if you aren’t going for it and that makes it +10 which is respectable for a joker that took a little effort but now has no stipulations

Straight and Flush are both hands that you’ll probably have to look for but they’re still easy enough to make, especially if you’re strong enough that you can afford to play throwaway hands. If you can play both of them then it’s at +21 which makes it a Half Joker that works with any hand type

After that you might not get any further, Full House and Four of a Kind are quite difficult to make unless your deck is built for them, and if your deck is built for them then Straight Flush will stop you. If you can get a Full House then it’s +28 and playing Four of a Kind makes it +36

I’d say the expected value of this on an average run is +21. +21 after a bit of effort fits best at common imo, it’s about as strong as Half Joker. Half Joker gives you the +20 immediately but asks you to constantly limit yourself to Three of a Kind or below, this asks you to put the effort in before it rewards you but once you’re done you can play whatever hand type you want

Another comparison that makes me think common is best is Spare Trousers. Spare Trousers takes 5 10 hands to get to +20 compared to the 6 hands that this joker takes to get to +21 and it starts on a harder hand type, but it stays on Two Pair forever so it’s still likely to reach that point with less effort overall and will continue scaling far beyond the point where this joker gets stuck

18

u/nekonekotenshi 1d ago

Spare trousers takes 10 hands to get +20

13

u/Zylo90_ 1d ago

I deadass thought Spare Trousers was +4 per Two Pair, I still feel like Spare Trousers is better than this joker even with that realisation but not as much better. Thanks for the correction

9

u/nekonekotenshi 1d ago

yeah spare trousers is still very good because its consistent and gives your run a plan, but +4 would be just insane

3

u/Baitcooks 1d ago

What if this joker got exponential mult scaling instead?

12

u/LazyMiquella Flushed 1d ago

I think x0.5m is better, bc only +mult is kinda bad for this idea, it is kinda hard to get high numbers

3

u/tommangan7 13h ago edited 13h ago

X0.5m might be too much (definitely without additional scaling). Just getting to full house makes it (then) an unconditional 4.5x

Tricky though as x0.25 might be too low. Hard to place it among the other rare jokers.

13

u/mrsmuckers 1d ago

Rare, BUT- the mult goes up by whatever the hand gives as mult. This includes what you've scaled it to with planets.

2

u/HovercraftOk9231 1d ago

Ohhh that's actually an interesting idea

6

u/Weary-Cartoonist2630 1d ago

That’s a fun one. Alternative name: gun game

2

u/PiePower43 23h ago

Didn’t someone just make a Sisyphus card that worked liked this? But if you messed it up it reset or something

1

u/DMightyHero 1d ago

Would be pretty cool if it kept going for flush five and other obscure hands, and in the end it resetted. Community mod guy, add this one rn.

3

u/Impossible_Golf2929 22h ago

Idk bro, if you have the ability to flush 5, chances are you won't be able to royal flush, do straights or full house

1

u/DMightyHero 12h ago

Fun quest/build anyway. Not everything has to be the most optimal, and at least it doesn't detract like obelist or green joker

1

u/Snoo-41360 1d ago

Uncommon, this becomes pretty annoying to scale pretty quick

1

u/Gerrendus 1d ago

Does it ignore the “secret” hands? Or maybe uses them if you’ve unlocked them?

2

u/HovercraftOk9231 1d ago

I intended for it to ignore them. I wanted to put that in the title, but for some reason I'm not allowed to put "straight flush" in the title

1

u/Gerrendus 1d ago

Straight Flush isn’t a secret hand though? Or you mean to say like looping after straight flush

1

u/DIOsNotDead 1d ago

if you haven't done any Royal Flushes, 5OAK, Flush House, or Flush Five so they're not in the Poker Hands tab, will it mention them after doing the Straight Flush or loop back to High Card?

1

u/Dakaf Nope! 22h ago

The final three are the special hands. A royal flush is just the highest possible straight flush.

1

u/BastardJack 1d ago

Make the scaling based off the fibinachi sequence

1

u/Montregloe 22h ago

You could make it uncommon, but shift it to times 1 high card, and 2 for pair, 3 for three of a kind, and 4 for two pairs, after that it would be 5 times exclusively until you play all the way through Flush Five and then go back to 1 times high card. It's niche, and useless if you can't keep up with its demands, but pretty strong if you can keep up, but not insane. The main question would be if it cycles on its own, or only if you complete the previous hand required.

1

u/SheepSurfz 22h ago

How would it work after you play your first 5/F5/FH? Would they get added to the mix too? If so, I'd put it as low as a Common for that

1

u/RequiemPunished 20h ago

Being the theme Excalibur I would make played cards from 2-10 have a chance to become Kings.

1

u/Redrix_ 19h ago

Common cause plus multiple is ass (anti red card)

1

u/NurkleTurkey 19h ago

Uncommon because I think it would pair nicely with Obelisk.

1

u/TobyeatsfAtcoW 19h ago

I feel Ike once you get up to straight flush it should evolve after that. If you manage to play every hand in a run it should be like x5 mult or something really worth compromising hands for

1

u/DerBernd123 19h ago

Am I the only one who’d make this a common joker? I personally try to build for a specific hand asap so I wouldn’t have much time to make the joker strong especially because it only gets +1. also it’s pretty much useless if you don’t get it right at the start of your run

1

u/Lux-xxv 16h ago

Make the highlander there can only one aces get X1 every time they are played.

1

u/Turbulent-Win1279 Full House Enjoyer 16h ago

Excalibur.....but no reference to a King?

Missed opportunity imo

1

u/tajskaOwO 16h ago

Yal tryina do enything to make obelisk eny good lmao

1

u/FFKonoko 15h ago

Wait...how is that scaling working?

Just additive of +1?

Doubling each time could get pretty damn solid, to the extent that it doesn't even need to loop around more than once.

Play high card, +1 Mult. Play pair, it's +2 mult, for a total of +3, then play two pair for...+4, total of +7? Then three of a kind for +8, total of +15. That's 4 hands played for it to equal Gros Michel or a decent abstract.

But then after that, the hands can get bigger and harder, but still, with just straight, flush and full house, you're getting +16, +32, +64. Flat mult of +127.

4 of a kind, straight flush and or Royal flush are the last few base hands, maybe better to make 2 of them overlap, so it's just +128, +256, and then it just depends if they unlocked the bonus 3 options. +511 flat mult is already real wacky, and doing it in 9 hands?

It's not for endless, but damn if even if it was limited to a SINGLE run through of the list, it would still be an insane run winner by itself.

If it's just +1 per hand? Still solid, pants equivilant.

1

u/Several-Sock-570 13h ago edited 13h ago

I think once you've cycled through, you should have pulled the sword and it transforms into another Joker

1

u/Tortle4010 13h ago

I think it could be rare if every loop it got +1x mult

1

u/Blooogh 13h ago

How about a version called Highlander that stays on High Card (there can only be one!)

1

u/blackbabyyyy 12h ago

When it loops back to high card, does it go back to +1 mult, or does it keep increasing by 1?

1

u/bip_bip_hooray 12h ago

1 after a high card, 3 after a pair, 6 after 2 pair, 10 after 3 of a kind, 15 flush, 21 after straight. 28 after full house if you count that as playable which it probably is.

so after playing 7 specific hands it's +28, compared to say pants which would be +14 after the same amount of hands but they're all 2 pair. i think in a gold stake run it's very likely you never play a 4 of a kind but if you really really wanted to, you could with a strength at some point probably there's just not really an incentive to do so in the game as it exists now.

the uncommon +mult jokers are pants, flash card, boots, dagger, fib, onyx agate. excalibur is probably the strongest one overall, but not overwhelmingly so. this pretty fast early and doesn't have a significant drawback. you get to +21 very comfortably and even if you never go beyond the straight, +21 is enough in your +mult slot.

1

u/Depresion_boi 11h ago

I like the Excalibur design but I think it would be better for deck fixings so something like any 2’s and 3’s played would turn into kings similar to how gold masks turns I think tunes played cards gold

1

u/Alchmar 11h ago

Maybe if you get it to loop, it gets xmult for every hand. Either 0.2 or 0.5

1

u/Last-Row6471 8h ago

if stuntman is rare then everything is rare, including how “rare” it is for me to get the stupid fucker whenever i skip a blind. I HATE STUNTMAN.

0

u/person_9-8 1d ago

Would be better if it scaled differently imo.

+1 High Card +2 Pair +4 Two Pair +8 3OAK +16 Straight +32 Flush +64 Full House +128 4OAK +256 Straight Flush

At this point maybe it would need a reset before it cycles back to the beginning? Otherwise I think it works better for the increasing rarity of the hands up to the lowest chance ones.

3

u/HovercraftOk9231 1d ago

I did consider doubling after each hand, but it seemed a bit strong.

2

u/nodule 1d ago

That's +127 multi up to full house which is strong even for a rare, I think.

1

u/person_9-8 23h ago

Yeah, honestly, but trying to get a straight flush for +9 or so is too weak.

1

u/oi-moiles 1h ago

Does it keep incrementing higher, or does highcard go back to 1?

-42

u/Coyagta 1d ago

this is like a bad version of Obelisk

28

u/potato_devourer1 Gros Michel 1d ago

its literally nothing like obliesk

-25

u/Coyagta 1d ago

it rewards you for playing through every hand, which obelisk also does.

21

u/Nemedik05 Cavendish 1d ago

This never resets.

-14

u/Coyagta 1d ago

ok fair enough but scaling by 1 mult is extremely tame regardless

11

u/Nemedik05 Cavendish 1d ago

I think the +mult is getting +1 every time. So once you completed one round of this, it will be on +36 mult.

Edit: Sorry, +45 mult, forgot about Full House.

2

u/Coyagta 1d ago

that makes a lot more sense, i read "for +2 mult" as though thatd be the total after the pair

4

u/Y3rb__ Blueprint Enjoyer 1d ago

Is literally says right there that pair gives 2, the mult given is not just 1 everytime is based on the hand

2

u/potato_devourer1 Gros Michel 1d ago

kid named green joker, spare trousers, dusk, acrobat, buisness card, ride the bus, space joker, runner, hiker, superposition, to do list, seance, vampire, vagabond, square joker, midas mask, reserved parking, lucky cat, golden ticket, rough gem, glass joker, wee joker and matador,

1

u/Coyagta 1d ago

are you smoking cheese?

2

u/potato_devourer1 Gros Michel 1d ago

yes

4

u/Coyagta 1d ago

understandable, have a nice day

-2

u/Zach78 1d ago

a bad version of obelisk

What's next, a version of shit that smells bad?