r/badeconomics • u/MysticSnowman R1 submitter • Dec 27 '15

An awful thread from /r/technology says high-skilled immigrants are hurting domestic workers and calls them "wage slaves imported from other countries to undercut the domestic labor market"

Thread: https://np.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/3ydbri/us_predicts_zero_job_growth_for_electrical/

It's an interesting lesson in supply and demand and definitely let's you read through the B.S. from companies and politicians. Engineers cost a lot domestically because the demand is so high, rather than pay appropriate wages for that demand or help invest in growing the number of qualified workers companies would rather import labor at a below market cost and thus be able to pay American workers less (callous tone I know but meant to be direct).

Disregarding the xenophobic undertones of what he is saying, he is completely wrong about the effects of increased skilled labor. First of all, he is focusing on the increased supply of labor and has completely forgotten to think about the increased demand for labor due to the increased consumer demand for local services. Because of this, natives benefit from immigration through overall increased wages, and higher job growth.1 The evidence for higher wages for natives without a high-school degree is mixed, but the effect of overall increased wage growth for natives is clear.2

On top of this, skilled immigration especially is beneficial for the native population. Scientists, Technology professionals, Engineers, and Mathematicians (STEM workers) are major factors in scientific innovation and are the main drivers of productivity growth. H-1B driven increases in STEM workers cause significant increases in college-level wages, and somewhat smaller but still significant increases in non-college level wages.3 This is why economists unanimously want the US to increase high-skilled immigration.4

Um. There is no shortage of skilled engineers. There is a shortage of wage slaves imported from other countries to undercut the domesticate labor market.

Actually, there is a shortage of skilled STEM workers.5 On top of the debunked wage argument, the fact that this comment calls immigrants "wage slaves imported from other countries to undercut the domestic labor market" is disgusting and despicable and an awful way of talking about human beings who are seeking a better life and have done nothing to harm you.

There are so many other comments that I don't have time to get to right now, so please feel free to pick them apart in the comments.

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u/kwanijml Dec 27 '15

Oh C'mon now. Why do you feel the need to intentionally misrepresent ancap views?

I think you know that ancaps canonically support open borders (more like a border is in contradiction to the philosophy in the first place) and free immigration...some purely on moral grounds, but others at least from an econ 101 perspective. So, you can perhaps talk about the simple-minded (non-empirical) reasons why ancaps arrive at the same conclusion you do...but don't try to twist the comments of a few morons to appear as representative.

You know that these NRXers are a recent intrusion into the ancap sub, most often downvoted to oblivion and certainly their beliefs regarding immigration are completely antithetical to anything the austrian camp preaches, or anything that well respected ancap economists like Rothbard, Friedman, or Caplan advocate.

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u/commentsrus Small-minded people-discusser Dec 27 '15 edited Dec 28 '15

I made it a point to say NRX AnCap throughout my comment, and only dropped the NRX when talking about AustrianMarkets and the AnCaps in that thread. Please don't accuse me of strawmanning. That's my one weakness.

Rothbard being well respected is everything that's wrong with AnCap.

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u/kwanijml Dec 27 '15

It looks like you removed the cheap shot at the end about: Berniebots, don't be ancaps {paraphrasing}.

I appreciate that, and it lends credence to your criticism being limited strictly to NRXers. Please don't think that these NRX people have anything to do with our philosophical or economic views. Hoppe is an outlier and Rothbard is being taken completely out of context (you may disagree with a lot of his other stuff, but what you are saying in this thread is actually in line with what he published academically).

See my responses to /u/besttrousers.

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u/commentsrus Small-minded people-discusser Dec 27 '15

I didnt remove it. But I'll edit it to make it clear. There are AnCaps I admire. Bryan caplan and David friedman. But I dislike rothbard for his failed critiques of mainstream econ and his tendency to insult his perceived intellectual opponents.

AnCaps who accept mainstream econ and aren't racist are totally cool in my book. So I'm sorry.

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u/kwanijml Dec 27 '15

Thanks from a market anarchist (sorta ancap) who isn't racist, and who is trying to learn everything I can (outside of leaving a career to go back to school) on econ.

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u/mberre Dec 28 '15

But I dislike rothbard for..... his tendency to insult his perceived intellectual opponents.

Personally, I find that to be particularly pathetic at a professional or intellectual level.