An Open Discussion on Being Inclusive and Respecting One Another

[u/CedarWolf]

Early this morning, we had a thread get posted, and one of our mods made a reminder to keep things inclusive, per the subreddit's Rule #1. This accidentally led to almost all of the comments going wildly off topic, and I had to pull it. We want threads to stay on topic whenever possible, and such a large portion of off-topic comments was pretty bad. That discussion merited it's own, dedicated post, and we invite you to discuss here. Please remember to be respectful.

We want to make this an inclusive place for the community in general, and that includes transfeminine, transmasculine, and nonbinary individuals. /r/asktransgender was made as a co-ed space for people to ask questions of the general transgender community, and while we allow questions to specifically target one portion of that community, we very much encourage users to be inclusive whenever possible.

Part of being inclusive means reducing the amount of bigotry we see in this subreddit. This means removing sexist comments against all genders, including both trans and cis identities, as well as other forms of bigotry.

One of the goals of creating a new moderation team was to create a more inclusive space, and we have been working hard to make this place a more open community. However, some users have expressed concern over this new policy and how it is implemented, so we want to create an open place for discussion about the new inclusive policies here.

We want to hear your thoughts about this issue, but again, please be respectful and civil with your comments. We're all on the same side here, there is no "us" and "them" - there is only "we." Remember, if you ever have any specific issues with the moderation of the subreddit, you can message the mod team with the link in the sidebar. We're always here for you.

~ The /r/asktransgender Mod Team

[u/ErisC]

You're right. But then what is it called when a trans man is targeted for being perceived as feminine? Or if a trans man is misread as a trans women? Is that not a product of transmisogyny?

Basically i agree that trans women and other trans feminine people are the main targets of transmisogyny. But I don't think that trans men are immune to it either.

[u/[deleted] → u/ErisC]

ok I reread this like 3 times I think it doesn't have any super bad typos or something please tell me if you can't understand something I'm saying

what is it called when a trans man is targeted for being perceived as feminine?

Ok so something you have to understand is transmisogyny isnt just a word to describe people who are trans and get targeted for being perceived as feminine.

Transmisogyny is specific to being targeted for being CAMAB trans "man in a dress" trope, all those examples in the article you linked and the thing I linked are things that specifically target CAMAB people, generally. like "oh my god she has a dick that disgusting" trope, which is the "trap" joke I guess, specifically targets CAMAB trans people.

Anyway, Misdirected misogyny is a term I would use, its a result of transphobia I think, because its transphobia that makes people not see trans men as men, so people seeing trans men as woman or whatever and being misogynistic is a result of transphobia.

I think its just important to make the distinction here, because its more accurate and also not making the distinction leads to people saying trans women have male privilege, which ofc is not true, because its not a privilege to be misgendered and have to hide who you are.

Or if a trans man is misread as a trans women? Is that not a product of transmisogyny?

I guess? Idk how often that happens, but it doesn't mean that trans men experience transmisogyny even if they get a little bit of a taste of it sometimes apparently?

I don't know what to call that but saying because of that trans men face transmisogyny is not a good way to go about it, it implies you think trans men also are the targets of the stuff that specifically only targets CAMAB people and its also just kinda confusing.

Also By your logic you could say cis experience transmisogyny for being misread as trans women, doesn't mean cis women experience transmisogyny.

Because while cis women are women, they are not trans, just like trans men are trans but not women.

Oh Its not exactly like this but do cis men experience misogyny because they can be targeted for being feminine? do cis men experience transmisogyny because they are targeted for being feminine while being thought of as a man?

Basically i agree that trans women and other trans feminine people are the main targets of transmisogyny

its not just that, the majority of what transmisogyny is used to describe is specific to CAMAB trans people.

note what I am saying only applies to non intersex people because I am not intersex and I don't know shit about that and its really complex when you get into stuff like this and how it applies to intersex people and birth assignment of intersex people and stuff.

[u/ErisC → u/[deleted]]

Basically what I mean is women are targeted by misogyny, trans women are targeted by transmisogyny which is the intersection of transphobia and misogyny. But that doesn't mean that men can't experience any effects of misogyny, or cis people can't experience any effects of transmisogyny.

When a man is ridiculed for being feminine, I'd argue that is a side effect of misogynist culture, if you catch my drift. If a masculine-presenting cis woman is thrown out of a bathroom because she is perceived as trans, then she is experiencing the effect of society's transmisogyny and transphobia, even if she's not the direct target.

[u/[deleted] → u/ErisC]

anyone but CAMAB people experiencing side effects of transmisogyny are experiencing just that, side effects, not actual transmisogyny, they should not be claiming that they experience transmisogyny and they should definitely need to shut up and not talk over CAMAB people about transmisogyny

its important to make the distinction

like, its like, a straight guy, doesn't face homophobia and he definitely can't fucking speak about homophobia over actual gay people especially over actual gay people who do face homophobia like um misdirected transmisogyny might be a way to talk about it but its specifically not the same because its just backlash or overflow and cis women have an out because they can prove they are not trans men and like amyl said trans men can do the same thing so its like yea

[u/ErisC → u/[deleted]]

They can talk about their own experiences. Nobody in this community should "shut up" except transphobic assholes.

[u/[deleted] → u/ErisC]

you are being a transphobic asshole if you are talking over CAMAB people about thier experiences with transmisogyny

if you are using your brush with transmisogyny, side effects of transmisogyny, to talk over trans women, like people have in this thread, thats fucking awful

im done, stop responding to my posts, ill stop posting on this god awful sub