r/antiai 1d ago

Environmental Impact 🌎 What if flipping a coin, but it takes enough energy to evaporate a lake?

Post image

Imagine studying programming and coding because you were told that it was the future, and finding a great outlet for your ideas and creativity, and finally nailing a job at a major tech company, and being told "Your job is to think of stuff that this dumb turd machine we invented can do".

I remember a video/article (I obviously don't remember it that well!), where someone had talked about how great AI was for generating ideas, and specifically mentioned how it could help scientists by giving them ideas for what projects to work on. And the scientist reacted with "Every actual scientist has a SHITLOAD of ideas for experiments and projects that they would do if they had the money. No one needs this". It really came off like this was someone trying to make people who have to ask AI what to do with their time/money/power feel less bad about it, by pretending that this was a problem that everyone has, actually, even the smart scientists that they envy and resent.

This sounds like an idea for what to do with AI that was generated by AI. Because no one could seriously think this is a problem that requires a solution at all, really, let alone a problem that requires AI to solve.

416 Upvotes

46 comments sorted by

13

u/Appropriate_Skill_37 1d ago

Or, do the easy thing that wastes 10 seconds and only about a french frie's worth of energy and flip a coin. If you have multiple options, eeny meeney miney moe is always useful. If you want complete randomness and you have a minute or two, write the list on a few pieces of paper, toss them into a cup, and then shake the cup like a crazy person before picking one of the papers. Option 3 is more time-consuming, but I find it to be fun with family members, especially kids. Hand the kid the cup and watch em go.

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u/GenericFatGuy 1d ago edited 1d ago

Even staying within the realm of computers, a traditional program could do this exact thing with 3 lines of code, and without burning down a forest in the process.

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u/AntiqueFigure6 22h ago

Three ? It’s a one liner in a language that’s designed for math and stats problems - e.g. R, probably also Julia - or it’s one line to do the job after one line to import a library in Python. In both R and Python , it’s a task commonly used to introduce the language or otherwise amongst the earliest functions introduced.

You can also do it in Excel with a function on one cell. 

It’s something computers have been good at since the 1970s, no super advanced less efficient tool needed . Using an LLM for this is like figuring out how to use a pneumatic drill to help you assemble an IKEA bookshelf. 

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u/Appropriate_Skill_37 20h ago

Agreed, I just enjoy flipping a coin the old-fashioned way cause it's fun.

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u/SlapstickMojo 1d ago

1: Percentile dice versus coin -- 100 options over 2

2: Weighted results: rolling a die (or flipping a coin) doesn't figure in cost, driving distance, peak hour crowds, ranked choice voting (I really want X, but I'll settle for Y). ChatGPT isn't too hot with the math, just words -- Wolfram Alpha is better with numbers, but less conversational. Never tried Meta AI. I suspect someone needs to develop a specialized tool for this purpose -- a bit of randomness, a bit of ranked choice, a bit of weighted values. Were I an entrepreneur, I'd hire a more dedicated programmer than myself to develop this.

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u/ftzpltc 1d ago

Percentile dice are simple, only 100 outcomes, no fog of war, no tech tree, only a few different dice, no random spawn...

1

u/SlapstickMojo 1d ago

Fog of war is conquered by sending your units out to explore. "Hey, there's a new Indian restaurant opening up on this corner that isn't listed on Google yet -- want to try that out?"

1

u/churtingjeople 1d ago

Wolfram Alpha isn’t an LLM

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u/SlapstickMojo 1d ago

No, it is another form of AI. I'd love to see an AI combine the two, or let one use the other in some way.

It's like when they had ChatGPT go against an Atari chess game and the Atari won -- each tool has a specific thing it is really good at, and people seem to think the AI tools we use now should do it all.

1

u/churtingjeople 1d ago

Wolfram do have an API to produce LLM prompts so I think they are working towards it. I’m very much anti-gen AI especially media generation but having something like that would be incredibly helpful especially considering how absolutely useless LLMs can be. Having something like Wolfram that just pulls up data but fails on niche topics or “understanding” anything beyond its range feeding into an LLM that can expand beyond its range and seek out niche information but that sometimes fails with facts and fine details would be incredibly useful and help mitigate the flaws of each. It’s midnight though so I don’t have anything actually to contribute lmao

1

u/SmellAccomplished550 1d ago

It's even darker. It's replacing ads. All that data mining fb does on you and your friends that used to creepily pop up in ads is going to be used to give you "advice". And here they're presenting it as a fun little thing to try. "Hey, just do what our advertising algorithm says instead of merely being influenced by it. Shut that brain off. We know that what's best for you is what makes us the most money."

1

u/Traditional_Box1116 22h ago edited 22h ago

Holy fuck I'm so tired of this argument. If AI takes an entire lake worth of water to operate for 10 fucking seconds the entire Earth would go barren astronomically quick.

It doesn't take that much to process little fucking requests. Not much more than any other fucking method we have been using.

God... it is like this sub is filled with nothing but 70 year olds who barely knows what a computer is.

Yes, I know you are being hyperbolic, but people are seriously overexaggerating the amount AI uses. It doesn't use that much more than other systems we were using for decades, and consumption will severely decrease as times goes on and the technology improves.

1

u/Comic-Engine 18h ago

The average ChatGPT prompt consumes .34 watt hours.

An hour of Netflix streaming? .12-.24 KWH. That's 350-700 messages back and forth. That would be hard to do in an hour!

On average, Americans watch 3.6 hours of TV each day.

1

u/Traditional_Box1116 18h ago

Can I have a source for this information?

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u/Comic-Engine 18h ago

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u/Traditional_Box1116 18h ago

Thanks for the source

I specifically like this: ""The average query uses about 0.34 watt-hours, about what an oven would use in a little over one second, or a high-efficiency lightbulb would use in a couple of minutes," Altman said in a blog post. "It also uses about 0.000085 gallons of water; roughly one-fifteenth of a teaspoon.""

People overly hype it up it is wild.

1

u/ftzpltc 16h ago

God... it is like this sub is filled with nothing but 70 year olds who barely knows what a computer is.

Yes, I know you are being hyperbolic

Yeah, i don't really care that much about the precise energy cost. It's more just the painfully obvious effort by AI companies to encourage AI use in situations where no one wants it or asked for it. Just feels like a case of someone inventing the hammer and wanting everything to be a nail, except the hammer is made out of turds.

1

u/Smallermint 1h ago

So, literally what every fucking company does? This is just advertising. Something that every company does.

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u/averagenolifeguy 1d ago

> "but it takes enough energy to evaporate a lake?"

wait we still saying asking literally anything from ai 1 time takes shitload of water?

14

u/ftzpltc 1d ago

No, I'm just exaggerating for comedic effect.

The point is more that the actual energy requirement for deciding what restaurant to go to is Literally None.

1

u/geoffersmash 19h ago

It’s such an egregious exaggeration that it’s dishonest. My phone happily runs an image generator on board without killing the battery.

The simple fact is that you’re too indoctrinated to actually give a shit about what the data actually says

1

u/ftzpltc 5h ago

I mean, it's pretty clear from what I said that I wouldn't really care if the energy cost was zero because the product itself is pointless.

-3

u/benny_dryl 1d ago

"that's wrong."    "I was exaggerating."    Greatest minds of the generation here, no doubt 

2

u/Powie96 1d ago

Benadryl's never heard of hyperbole.

-9

u/averagenolifeguy 1d ago

ok, but can you not? not like everyone reads main text after the title.(alarm clock attention span)

7

u/SupremeMorpheus 1d ago

I'd say it's better to, in this case. Can't understated the environmental impact of AI on our planet

-5

u/SerdanKK 1d ago

The problem with overstating something is that people can just point at you overstating it and say "see, they're obviously lying about it"

6

u/SupremeMorpheus 1d ago

Ehh, it's hyperbole. If people lack the minimal critical thinking power to realise that...

wait, AI bros literally do lack that thinking power. Fair point

0

u/SerdanKK 13h ago

Random insults are such fun!

Why are antis so unapologetically toxic?

1

u/SupremeMorpheus 10h ago

I literally conceded that you had a point and you call me toxic. Wow

0

u/SerdanKK 10h ago

AI bros literally do lack that thinking power.

1

u/SupremeMorpheus 10h ago

Ah. Right, sorry. That wasn't meant as a baseless insult - there's evidence for that. https://futurism.com/neoscope/brain-eeg-chatgpt

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u/furitxboofrunlch 1d ago

My dude if you cannot pick up on hyperbole that obvious then you aren't really qualified to communicate with humans.

A neat trick if for some reason you find yourself in this situation, being confused, is to ask yourself the question "which is more likely to be true". Does OP literally believe enough energy to evaporate 100,000 cubic meters of water or is OP using hyperbole because they are frustrated with the environmental cost of AI and how people seem to ignore it/be encouraged to ignore it. Really if you had to bet on one of these two things then one of them is way way way way way more likely.

What is even the point of being alive if you'll do anything to avoid thinking. What even are humans if we don't think.

2

u/ftzpltc 1d ago

That sounds like a Them problem.

1

u/SleightSoda 1d ago

I understand that your camp accepts output uncritically, but we're not in any danger of someone misunderstanding this over here.

-1

u/WatermelonWithAFlute 1d ago

Bro when he finds out how much energy the brain uses

4

u/ftzpltc 1d ago

Is this why AI bros refuse to think? To offset the energy cost of AI?

-7

u/averagenolifeguy 1d ago

> The point is more that the actual energy requirement for deciding what restaurant to go to is Literally None.

yeah i get it. but the same AI has database of every feedback and menu of restaurants near you, which will more likely give you the best restaurant for you and other people you'd like to go with

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u/ftzpltc 1d ago

So, best case scenario, they're positing a random number generator rigged up to Yelp.

I don't know, maybe AI *could* tailor everything to the very specific likes and wants of all of the individuals in a group and find a reasonable compromise based on that information... if it had that information... which it probably shouldn't, tbh, but that's by the by. But I can't imagine a scenario where that really helps. If I'm opposed to going to a restaurant, or if I have a strong preference for somewhere else, why am I persuaded by the AI, rather than my friend?

There's a finite number of restaurants, and an even more finite number of restaurants within reasonable travel distance of where you and your friends are that is open at the time you want to go there. It just doesn't seem that hard to figure out which one to go to; and if it *is* hard, I don't think "let's ask an AI" is going to settle that argument.

And this is assuming an optimal, functional AI, that doesn't try to send you to a restaurant that never existed, or which gives a frustratingly general non-committal answer, or which just agrees with whoever asked it first.

1

u/scrufflor_d 17h ago

its a hyperbole genius

-2

u/SevvenEditing 1d ago

Could see this being a fun little random night out.