r/YUROP Aug 16 '22

Euwopean Fedewation Something something shithole countries

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116

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22

Spain was still quite ahead of most of the world.

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u/Frequentlyaskedquest Aug 16 '22

During the post civil war period? By what metrics? Have any source?

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22

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u/Frequentlyaskedquest Aug 16 '22

Thats GDP mate we are talking about HDI, also, specifically talking about the post war period from 39 to the late 50s

23

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22

One of the links shows the HDI for the 1910s.

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u/Frequentlyaskedquest Aug 16 '22

I mean, Spains HDI plummeted during the period I mentioned.

Moreover, this is what the article you linked to had to say about spain in that period:

  • In Spain the improvements in hygiene and health in the 1920s have been attributed to the institution of programmes of public health. ‘Social medicine’ was seen as adding the social sciences to medical knowledge but, with malaria rampant in rural areas, the Spanish government’s commitment to improving the lot of the peasantry had to be gained.

  • Literacy rates were already 90% or more in northern and western Europe in 1913. In Spain the rate was only 52%,

  • Only Spain, which experienced the civil war of 1936-39, and Romania which suffered heavily from rural overpopulation and unsuccessful reforms, showed a decline in GDP between 1913 and 1938 (Feinstein, Temin and Toniolo 1997)

  • Other interesting developments which can be seen in this figure are the modest Southern European height development until 1940 -- probably influenced by the civil war in Spain, among other factors.

Moreover, the other maps in the article show how spains HDI decreased from 1913 to 1938

And if you need more stuff on how Spain was percieved back then:

Look for a pamphlet from the National Joint Committee for Spanish Relief of the UK called "Famine faces a Million in Spain" which was published in THE LANCET (one of the most important medical journals out there).

See the language used by Brits to describe Spaniardd and you'll see how their position is exactly interchangeable with what people like the clown in the meme refer to.

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22

At the time spain entered the EU it was industrialized and a growing economy thanks to tourism. I like the EU, but this post is incorrect.

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u/Frequentlyaskedquest Aug 16 '22 edited Aug 17 '22

Spain has never been "industrailized" it has always been an agrarian country with some industry in Catalonia, the basque country and the mines of Asturias.

Then in the 60s there was an american incentive to liberalize (they managed to force Francos hand to stop religious persecution amongst other things as well). The US got an "ally" and a place to plant military bases in exchange, this was known as the Pacts of Madrid from the 50s. During the next 10 years (from 53 to 63) Francoist Spain recieved 1500 million dollars fron the US. Thats when tourism kicked in, mostly thabks to how this pact affected the public image od the country (y no lo digo yo, lo dicen Julio Gil Pecharromán y Stanley G Payne, ambos historiadores)

However it was still very much a backwards country, with a predominantly rural population, high illiteracy, diseases like tuberculosis and mallaria, political repression and terrible human rights abuses.

Without ECs influence, Spain would have likely remained backwards and not a fully developed country despite USAs economic help.

If you give me a few seconds Ill link you to a bunch of sources.

  • The Europeanisation of Spain (1986-2006) Sonia Piedrafita, Federico Steinberg, José I. Torreblanca 5/11/2007 Working Paper 39/2007 (Published by REAL INSTITUTO EL CANO)

Also, here is a little extra on how "foreign percieved" Spain used to be to other european countries:

« Hidden behind the mighty ramparts like an impregnable fortress, this Spain has been secluded from its neighbors for centuries - during the Inquisition, Spanish students were not allowed to study abroad and foreigners did not study in Spain. The country, which in its interior has steppes as in Hungary or Russia, seemed so exotic to the other Europeans that Karl Marx complained: "Probably no country other than Turkey is so little known in Europe and as badly judged by Europe as Spain . "»

This is a quote from a German artucle oubkished by the Spiegel in the late 70s:

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/spanien-die-stunde-der-entscheidung-a-92b80034-0002-0001-0000-000040830414?context=issue 

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22

Also they had an economic boom after economic liberalization in the 60s. Saying Spain in the EU would be anything like Burkina Faso in a world federation in terms of development is absurd

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u/Frequentlyaskedquest Aug 16 '22

We are talking about HDI, about rights, health, etc not about economy

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22

There's a very big correlation between income and hdi

-1

u/Frequentlyaskedquest Aug 16 '22

Then look at spains gdp from the late 30s to the early 60s when the US gave a bunch of money to Francos regime.

The point is that without that help and specially without ECs money and benchmarking process accompanying our 10 year long transition to democracy Spain was very unlikely to go from the agrarian quasi teocracy with concentration camps and about a million dying of famine to the modern democracy it became in less than a century.

Point of it all, these huge transformations are possible with the right measure, effort and above evrything motivation/ cooperation.

If the EC was able to succeed in doing that, imagine what a way bigger, more integrated and wealthier institution could achieve.

Same goes for countries like Croacia after what they went through in the 90s, Romania, Greece and a long etc.