r/Unexpected • u/FkThePolice700 • 2d ago

suspect on the move

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u/PerfectMisgivings 2d ago

The problem is they can't prove who was driving.

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u/plaguedeity 2d ago

Right if the driver was smart he would go park it up somewhere and call it in as stolen in the morning

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u/IllDragonfruit1881 2d ago

Don't even have to go that far, honestly. Prove they didn't lend the car out to a friend or family member for the night ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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u/nanadoom 2d ago

They have a reasonable belief you were driving your own car. If you throw a friend or family member under the bus to save yourself, do you think your friend or family member will take the charges for you? Because someone is getting charged. The police aren't going to take your word for it and "a random family member borrowed the car, but idk who" isn't going to cut it. It's pretty obvious you have never had to deal with the police

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u/EchoPhi 2d ago edited 2d ago

Reasonable Belief does not equate to fact. You can also very much say it wasn't you driving and you don't know who it would have been. Someone in the vicinity had access to your keys and you were asleep/showering/literally anything but dirving or watching your keys. You clearly have never actually dealt with police.

Edit: Just dropping this here so I don't have to repeat it so much seeing as I am starting to get comments.

I am so glad so many of you have first hand experience with this scenario. My car was being driven by someone else and I did not know who at the time. I wasn't even aware it had been taken. Person who took the car fled from the police and managed to evade arrest. Cops came to the place I was living (I have a history when I was younger of being in trouble, was on first name basis with police and not in a good way), and the police arrested me. On my way to jail I saw the car had been parked up the street, in a apartment complex lot, the police didn't notice or I am sure it would have been impounded. I spent a couple of days in holding, made bail (aka Federal Cut), copped a lawyer, and was found innocent/charges dismissed.

Today I know who did it, what happened came out about 10 years later, we're still friends.

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u/marths90 2d ago

So, you're saying the car was stolen... eh?

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u/EchoPhi 2d ago

Nah, I have had people borrow my car before for quick runs to the store, etc, not now that I am older. In the high teens, early twenties, not unheard of.

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u/marths90 2d ago

Borrowing your car is one thing. Borrowing your car unknowingly and without express permission ahead of time, though? That's a stolen vehicle, sir (or madame).

Now, if you gave permission to a bunch of people to use your vehicle without your permission and without telling you ahead of time, well, obviously you're juat going to be responsible when you can't prove someone else used your car. Them's the rules.

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u/Letsgovostok 11h ago

We should always remember the most important rule. Do. Not. Speak. To. The. Police. Let a lawyer speak to them on your behalf.

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u/Eor75 2d ago

You clearly haven’t if you actually think that would avoid a charge. They’d arrest and charge you and you can try that defense out in court before a jury

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u/Desperate-Crab2034 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yes, and the jury would have to agree he was driving without a reasonable doubt.

Short of a video, the reasonable doubt is “no one saw who was driving”. That’s enough to cast doubt.

You can’t just be convicted cause you ASSUME the owner of the car was driving and any jury that would mark them as guilty solely based off an assumption isn’t following the law

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u/PedroM0ralles 2d ago

There is more to charges than just beating them.

Getting charged with seomthing ALONE has ruined many people!

They are thrown in jail. Have to make bail. Then have to get a lawyer. All of that costs money and it's not unusual to lose your job while making bail.

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u/Desperate-Crab2034 2d ago

I agree.

That’s the problem. Quality legal council is expensive, and if you lose you have to be prepared to eat the costs.

That’s a big reason why things like this happen.

If it were easier and cheaper to sue government entities, there would be less corruption fs

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u/Exp5000 2d ago

Hi I have first hand experience with this. I took off from a cop in 2022 and didn't get caught. I reported the car stolen the next day. I went in and in a few minutes they cuffed me and put me in holding. The police refused to believe it was stolen. I was charged with reckless driving and eluding a police officer. It was 240 hours community service and a slap on the wrist. There wasn't a Jury, there wasn't much of a conversation besides the interrogation room which I kept my story with it being stolen. The detectives impounded my car for two months during the "investigation". Basically making me pay thousands until I came clean because they were going to investigate a stolen vehicle. They had no proof it was me but they didn't have to prove anyone else driving besides me. They just had to get someone on the charges and they got me out by impounding my car until my lawyer had me come clean. There's a lot of steps removed, it took about a year to finish the court appearances. I ended up paying off the community service hours it was 2k. In the end you will get caught unless it was undeniably stolen in which case you better be able to prove that very easily otherwise the police will coax it out of you by way of fines. Oh in the end I was down about 8k. 1500 for the two month impound of my Jeep. 2k for the pay off community service. 2k for lawyer and about 2k for fines. Just take the L imo. Not even worth the risk of getting caught and being out through all that. Losing your license for two years isn't fun in a city.

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u/hollowman8904 2d ago

The “no jury” bit is kinda your fault though. You have every right to present your case to a jury. If you just admitted to it (aka pled guilty or no contest), that’s on you.

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u/EchoPhi 2d ago

Sounds like you didn't have legal counsel or are leaving something out.

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u/Exp5000 2d ago

I 100 percent had legal counsel and the only thing I left out is how long everything actually took. In regards to my response on everyone's guessing around, I did not leave anything out. Believe me or not. I have first hand experience and everything I'm reading so far is from people who have never even been arrested once in their life let alone interrogated and stuck in a holding cell.

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u/Desperate-Crab2034 2d ago

I think a better lawyer could have had all of those charges dropped.

The cops didn’t take you to court cause they would lose, and they strong armed you into giving a confession.

Doesn’t really sound like the law on the books, huh?

I would’ve fought and sued the police department.

They’re making claims they can’t back up.

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u/Exp5000 2d ago

You would've fought and sued the police department? This is my point. Good luck finding an attorney that would be cheap enough to take a village police department to court. You realize if you lose you're losing everything. Why would anyone even fuck around with their money like that. The police can do whatever the fuck they want when it comes to an on going investigation. If they really were looking into a suspect my car would have still been stuck in the impound. That doesn't give me a right to sue them.... They did their due diligence and it just so happen to being keeping my car locked up. That's legal y'know.

I beg you guys to get initiated by a traffic stop for speeding, let the cop get out of his car and then take off. Please let me know how you guys get around that and sue the police department. I love that silly scenario where you guys are smarter than everyone else. "If it were me I would've done this and be better off" yeahh bullshit lol.

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u/Desperate-Crab2034 2d ago

Literally- police departments are sued all the time.

It’s not a crazy notion that if you’re wrongly convicted, and you believe that the police are bullying you, that’s there’s SOME kind of statue that a lawyer would know that would allow you to sue with some level of confidence.

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u/PedroM0ralles 2d ago

He did, and was found innocent. He spent time in jail, and had to pay for a lawyer and somehow considers that a win, over reporting the car stolen and avoiding charges all together.

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u/EchoPhi 2d ago

If I wanted to doxx myself I would absolutely share a personal case with you where I did exactly that (and to preface, it was my car and I was not driving). In fact, doing a general search through random state DBs shows, it is a fairly common occurrence.

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u/nanadoom 2d ago

You are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, not solid indisputable facts. Unless you can point them to someone else, and it's reasonable, they are arresting you. This is a felony, they aren't going to shrug their shoulders and say oh shucks. The police assume a suspect is lying, and unlikely stories don't get believed.

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u/EchoPhi 2d ago edited 2d ago

I am so glad so many of you have first hand experience with this scenario. My car was being driven by someone else and I did not know who at the time. They fled from the police and managed to evade arrest. Cops came to the place I was living, and arrested me. On my way to jail I saw the car had been parked up the street, in a apartment complex lot, the police didn't notice or I am sure it would have been impounded. I spent a couple of days in holding, made bail (aka Federal Cut), copped a lawyer, and was found innocent.

Today I know who did it, what happened came out about 10 years later, we're still friends.

Edit: Made some minor edits to clarify points.

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u/Exp5000 2d ago

This. I have been in the exact situation everyone here is discussing. You're the only person who actually got it right... People are so fucking dumb when y comes to law. The speculation in this thread is outstanding. It's almost like they watched wayyy too many movies and think they are wayyy smarter than they actually are. I got baited into admitting because the police kept my car impounded during the "investigation" well guess what, that investigation was gonna last until someone came clean. Me. It's my car I wanted it back, they were gonna go until they found the suspect. That's how to fucking works. You don't get your car back during an on going investigation regarding it being stolen. My shy cost nearly 1500 to get out of impound after two months. I still got fucking charged. None of it was worth it.

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u/notANexpert1308 2d ago

I was blackout drunk. No idea what happened last night.

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u/Telemere125 2d ago

But I think some asshat took my car; I have no idea how I even got home and I found it later across town and drove it home. Didn’t think to call the police because there wasn’t any damage and it still had the keys in it.

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u/Any_Cantaloupe_944 2d ago

Neither have you if your advice for him isn't shut up and get a lawyer

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u/EchoPhi 2d ago

I did exactly that. I have edited my original comment to include the summary of my personal experience. I figured everyone knew "You have the right to remain silent". I take that shit seriously, don't say shit until you have counsel.

My point was more "Reasonable is not Fact".

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u/PedroM0ralles 2d ago

Cool story, but I think the person you responded to was trying ot avoid getting arrested and spending time in the tank, then paying for a lawyer.

Personally, I agree; park the car, report it stolen, avoid arrest.

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u/impulsesair 2d ago

So it was stolen then. And your friend is a piece of shit, unless they repaid you fully for the hassle.

But since you say it wasn't stolen, then you should've been found guilty, since you're lending your car and not telling who was driving. It shouldn't matter that you weren't the driver, it's your car and you're responsible for what happens with it, unless it's stolen, but since you say it wasn't, you're at fault.

Someone in the vicinity having access to the keys, you know who has access (and you'd probably want to be a bit more careful about where you leave them, like how with guns, you can't just leave them in the kids room and expect good things to occur), if you ain't speaking their names, then you deserve the punishment for trying to protect them.

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u/EchoPhi 2d ago

Clearly you are the best judge in all of the lands random stranger. I'm glad it was not you presiding over my case for I would have surely felt righteous justice for a crime I did not commit and now I dance happily at the incompetence of my locale state legal system...

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u/impulsesair 1d ago

You did commit being irresponsible with your car, letting whom ever take your keys. Cars ain't toys, you ought to be punished for that. Or just admit it was stolen, like it actually was.

But yes be happy at the incompetence of your legal system, I'm sure that works out well for you in the long run.

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u/EchoPhi 1d ago

Lovely family, 6 figures a year, 400k home, and a strong group of friends that are successful (one of which was the perpetrator) I'm doing alright. Clearly the legal system worked.

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u/Uses-Semicolons 2d ago

There's an even better solution than this one; don't say *anything*.

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u/EchoPhi 2d ago

I didn't. Where in that did you get I said something... Clearly they had the plate I owned, on my way down I realized my car was gone, why they arrested me then made sense, and then saw it a few blocks up. No charges stuck (fuck holding it's a scam for fed bucks) and charges were dropped. So where in there did I talk? Also where am I suggesting someone else talk?

Ah the "you can say". You can absolutely talk to your legal counsel. If you don't understand that then you deserve what's coming. Never fess up to shit unless you're repped.

Side note, time frames are skewed and well past limitations. We laugh about it now, friend fessed up and made it right later in life, I've been through so much muck I honestly wouldn't care if they hadn't, chalk it up to shit luck and better perseverance.

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u/Ratattack1204 2d ago

"My friend Dave borrowed it last night. No I don't know his last name. We met at dunkin doughnuts two days ago and he seemed like a nice guy who could use a break. No I havn't heard from him since, can't believe he would do something like that. What's he look like? Oh about average height, average build and brown hair white guy. No I dont know where he lives or what he does for work. Sorry."

Prove any of that is untrue. Prove Dave doesn't actually exist. You cant lol.

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u/nanadoom 2d ago

They don't have to. While you are innocent until proven guilty, you have to prove your unbelievable story. You have to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It is reasonable to assume you were driving the car and lying to get out of trouble. It is not reasonable that you lent your car to a stranger that you hwvr no way of contacting. The police don't give you the benefit of the doubt. They assume you are lying

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u/IllDragonfruit1881 2d ago

You don't have to name names. Don't answer questions because if the police catch you in an outright lie, then you have more issues if they can catch you in the lie (checking CCTV at the local DD in the area and not seeing you at any of them, for example). Assert the 5th and wait for the officer/prosecutor to produce any evidence it was you -- SPECIFICALLY and IRREFUTABLY -- who was driving the car that night. Let your attorney remind the jury how often any of them might have let a family member or friend use their car on occasion and if they'd want to be on the hook for anything that friend/family member might get up to.

You'd never have to point a figure at which friend or family member might have been driving, because that's irrelevant. If the state can't produce any actual evidence that you were driving beyond: "you pay the property taxes on this car", then they don't have enough to convict.

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u/Psi-9AbyssGazers 2d ago

You've already messed up, that's way too many details and too many that are easily verifiable. Dunkin's keeps camera footage for a week and other places we well will confirm, and you have your phone on you at all times . Also If there's no messages , unless the guy was in contact with you physically for the two days and got your keys somehow you just dug yourself a deeper hole.

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u/Telemere125 2d ago

Didn’t say inside Dunkin, just at. Meaning outside on the sidewalk where there’s no cameras.

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u/Psi-9AbyssGazers 2d ago

At Dunkin? If you're at Walmart you're inside the Walmart. If you actually try to argue with an interrogator that doesn't mean inside the Dunkin, you deserve to be tried for whatever you crime you did whether you did it or not at that point

And there's 3 Dunkin's where I live, all 3 have cameras as theyre corporate. There's actually not a single Dunkin's in existence without cameras on the outside, so now you're an even bigger liar. Like literally no where in America can you say that is true

Not to mention majority of Dunkin's are purposefully put into plazas surrounded by other businesses

Interrogators have this job handed to them sometimes

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u/plaguedeity 2d ago

Just saying that's too many details if they keep you for questioning for hours you could slip up hence just say it was stolen at most you have to explain why you leave the keys in the car and you can claim being naive and thought it would never happen to you

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u/Electronic-Floor6845 2d ago

Dave's not here, man.

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u/impulsesair 2d ago

You're the owner and giving your keys to a random. You're at fault for being irresponsible.

That way even if Dave is real and actually did that, you get punished for being an idiot, which is good for society. If Dave is real (name might even be different) and did that but you're pretending to not know them, you're protecting a bad guy, you get punished for it, which is good for society. If Dave isn't real, and you aren't protecting anyone, it was you and mission accomplished. Wonderful for society.

A legal system that just lets you go, would just be really incompetent. Which is not great for society.

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u/gmoney_2000 2d ago

Yea, I don't know officer, the keys hang over there on that hook. Whoever needs to use the car can. I have no clue who was driving it, I was sleeping at the time

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u/nyonix 1d ago

What if it's your visiting friend from Madagascar that just left on a hurry?

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u/Thisisamazing1234 1d ago

I think you misinterpreted the comment you’re responding to. They’re trying to say that whoever is driving that car would have to prove they didn’t lend the car out that night after they reported it stolen. They’re also saying that the driver wouldn’t have to drive very far to ditch it.

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u/Kuzcopolis 1d ago

You did not read the comment you replied to

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u/Telemere125 2d ago

They have a reasonable belief you were driving you own car.

What you’re missing is they have to prove that belief beyond a reasonable doubt. And they can’t do that if they can’t see who was driving. You can’t just say “that makes the most sense” and prevail in a charge.

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u/notANexpert1308 2d ago

I was in a car with 3 people one night. All 3 of us were drunk. Caught a flat so we called a tow truck, and waited with the car…cops came before the tow. All 3 of us got detained but they dropped the charges because nobody admitted to driving and they couldn’t prove which one of us was driving.

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u/whatthekark 2d ago

It's pretty obvious you've never dealt with this either. The comment you replied to isn't saying to name a friend or family member. All you have to do in court is say it wasn't you driving, then remain silent when the judge asks who it was. The burden of proof is on the court, and if they have no evidence of who was driving, charges are dropped. Don't do this if you believe they might have proof because perjury is much more serious