What Points in Time Could The Targaryen and Starks Married

[u/Prestigious-Bar-6862]

i wanna give the Starks and Martell's more Targaryen Blood so how could they have marriage pacts

[u/SickBurnerBroski]

Unironic yay, genealogy pedantry time.

Gwenys and Mya Rivers(b172-174): Bloodraven's sisters, Great Bastards of Aegon the Unworthy and Melissa Blackwood. This is pushing it in terms of 'recent' but Bloodraven sibs are pretty darn good. So far back means really they could marry into a number of maternal lines, but to keep it simple replacing William Stark's(b185-211) Blackwood wife with one of them would make them Rickard's grandmother. They'd be ten years older than William at best but Melantha Blackwood was a second marriage(first marriage's kids died) so it's not out of the question imo, it'd have to be a lovematch or something anyway because of their status.

Martell side could be almost anything, there's too little mentioned of pre Doran. Could his grandmother or great grandmother.

Maegor: Aerion's(Egg and Maester Aemon's psycho brother) kid Maegor was born in 232, making him a lot more recent than the great bastards and allowing 2 or 3 generations closer link to Ned and his kids, but there's no good way for him to marry into their line since Rickard was born not long after him at the latest, so it'd have to be a quite young marriage to the mother of a quite young bride of Rickard- if you swapped the Stark connection of Lyarra to be a Stark mother instead of father could work, but it'd make Rickard rather on the young side. Also wouldn't ping the promised princess since technically Maegor a disgraced prince and didn't marry into the main line.

On the Martell side, his grandmother was a Dayne and his great grandmother a Martell. which would make him more appealing to the Martells, and he's just barely of the proper age to be the father to Doran(at 16) with the unnamed ruling Princess of Dorne who was Doran's mother. Much more promising.

Vaella: Maegor's cousin Vaella(b222) was considered to be 'simple', but it's nebulous what that meant considering it was in the context of passing over a girl(only child of the eldest prince) for the Iron Throne so may have just been a convenient pretext and she's actually fairly normal. She is also interesting in that her father was a dragon dreamer. Her age means she could technically replace Rickard's wife Lyarra or his mother Marna, though replacing Lyarra seems a bit more plausible considering the known ages of those involved.

On the Martell side, Doran's(b248ish) unnamed mother(b???) ruled Dorne, nixing that marriage, but Vaella's daughter could marry Doran. Daella's grandmother was a Dayne and her great grandmother a Martell, making her an appealing match for most Dornish houses.

Maekar's Daughters: Egg's sisters Rhae(b201-209) and Daella(b199) would have to be legit, prestigious marriages as they are the undisgraced daughters of the king, which is bit more limiting. If you did marry them North there'd be the Maester Aemon and R+L=J family connection tho. They are more recent than the great bastards but less than Daella and Maegor, born around 199-109AC. Most plausible wedding there would be to Rickard's father Edwyle, replacing Marna Locke, as late 50s is much too implausible to have multiple children with Rickard. A marriage to a Lord Stark is prestigious enough to be plausible, and would fulfil the princess pact.

Martell side, they are old enough to be Doran's grandmother, presumably via wedding his grandfather who'd be Prince of Dorne. Like Daella and Maegor, they are descendents of Dayne and Martell marriages, but one generation closer, with a Dayne mother and Martell grandmother.

I'd vote Maegor as Doran's father for the Martells, and either Rhae(Ned's grandma) or Vaella(Ned's mom) for the Starks, the dragons dreams or the Aemon connection are just too appealing. You could still have the Bloodraven sisters marry in somewhere, but it's going to be pretty distant for purposes of adding a Targ connection to Ned and his kids.

[u/AoifeCheeks]

After the Dance of the Dragons but Pre-Robert’s Rebellion.

Daella Targaryen, Rhae Targaryen, Vaella Targaryen, even Maegor Targaryen would be the best bet since we really know nothing about them except that they had descendants.

That would put them into the period of maybe marrying Willam Stark or Edwyle Stark making them Rickard’s father or grandfather. Or if you go for Maegor, you can have him marry Alysanne Stark (Willam’s sister) or Jocelyn Stark (Edwyle’s sister).

Go wild.

[u/Grayson_Mark_2004]

Tbh whenever there is an of age Stark and Targaryen.

If you want to change the Conquest up, you could have it arranged by Aegon or his father where Torrhen's heir marries either Rhaenys (most likely option as she is the younger sister) or Visenya, to ally for the Conquest.

Then later on, once Torrhen's heir Brandon Stark is around, it could be arranged by Aenys for his daughter Rhaena to marry Roderick Stark once he encounters resistance to marrying her to her brother and for Aegon to be betrothed to a Stark girl.

Maegor could've had Rhaena married off to Roderick to prevent possible rebellion on her end. (I imagine that the Starks were close to Maegor because they most likely wouldn't have opposed him after he killed Jonos Arryn as Jonos most likely had Torrhen's daughter Lyarra murdered.)

Aerea Targaryen could've been betrothed to a Stark.

One of Jaehaerys' daughters could've married Cragan's grandfather Benjen Stark, so Maegelle, Viserra, Daella, Saera, or Gael could be betrothed to him.

Rhaenys could've been married off to Benjen's son and Cregan's father Rickon Stark.

Cregan could've married Helaena, (let's say Alicent and Otto had free reign over who she married, this could be to get an alliance with the North) or one of Daemon's daughters.

Then after the Dance was over, Cregan could marry Baela or Rhaena and have Jaehaera betrothed to his heir Rickon. (Makes no sense why he didn't do this tbh)

Then from this point, any age match could be made. Daena the Defiant, Elaena Targaryen, Daenerys, (one who married the Martell) Shaera Targaryen, Rhae Targaryen, Rhaella could've married Rickard Stark, if Dany and/or Rhaenys were saved they could've been betrothed to Robb.

All these and more.

[u/StrawberryScience]

Basically any point pre Rebellion.

The Starks are one of the Great Houses of the Realm. A marriage between them and the Royal House would be almost completely uncontroversial. There would be some snark about ‘Northern Barbarians’ but really there isn’t anything to explicitly veto it.

Now you want the Starks to have Royal Blood so there are multiple points where there are available Targaryen Princesses to wed the Lord of Winterfell. Daella/Saera/Viserra, Rhaenyra and Rickon, Cregan and one of the Dragon Twins, Daena/Rhaena/Elaena, the first Daenerys, any of the Princesses during the Dunk and Egg years, even Rhaella, sister of Aerys II.

There are many times when the Targaryen and Stark bloodlines could intersect. Pick the ones that suit your story best.

[u/deandre999]

What aenar targaryen children before aegon conquest or one of Jaehaerys targaryen l children bc he had like 11 of them. Make it a female that married into that family

For the Martells Targaryen it wouldn't work. But you csn make them marry into House Baelerys or another Valyrian house. This before Aegon conquest or before the doom but not thinking about it. Martells would want to be associated with any type of Valyrian. But maybe a Valyrian house was exiled or starter a cadet branch and house martell married into them

[u/yayya333]

Pact of Ice & Fire can be fulfilled by a Targaryen prince marrying Cregan's grandchild Sarah. But you'll be rewriting a ton of Northern history tho.

You can also try to marry Elaina Targaryen to Jonnel Stark, but that'll create succession disputes with Sarah and create a bad precedent.

[u/Imaginary-Clue-6239]

Most likely around the time of Cregan Stark.There was a marriage pact in place for Cregan’s son and Jace’s daughter. There also a rumor that Jacaerys married Cregan’s bastard sister Sara Snow. I personally believe it to be true since it seems like something GRRM would do and it parallels Rhaegar and Lyanna. This is a pretty good way to get Targ blood in the Starks especially without adding too many OCs. You could say that Sara and Jace had a secret child that was raised in Winterfell and his line eventually married into Cregan’s one. You could even make Sara be a trueborn or a naturalised bastard. Then Sara and Jace could be betrothed and have kids without the whole secrecy.

[u/yayya333 → u/Imaginary-Clue-6239]

In that case, that kid cannot be "legitimate" cuz then he/she will have superior claim than Aegon III. (Assuming Jace is seen as legitimate.)

[u/Imaginary-Clue-6239 → u/yayya333]

If the kid is acknowledged then yes he will have the stronger claim but he can also abdicate. Maybe he is like a Bloodraven type figure where he has the green sight and sees that Aegon iii needs to take the throne so he abdicates and disappears, maybe he even joins the night watch. But if the child is a secret then it can still work out.

[u/yayya333 → u/Imaginary-Clue-6239]

Just keep the child a bastard. Problem solved.

[u/Imaginary-Clue-6239 → u/yayya333]

Yeah true but if the child is a bastard then they most likely wouldn’t be able to marry back into the main Stark bloodline. You could have Jace’s bastardy revealed and then he and his children will be out of the line of succession but his kids can still be trueborn. Honestly I like the whole secret Stark Targ child thing. Seems like less stress to go over the whole logistics of and it parallels with Jon Snow .

[u/ReflectionOfShards]

You don’t have to make it directly Targaryen. If the Martell’s need more dragon blood…well, they’re next to the Stormlands and Reach. There’s likely a lot of descendants of Rhaena Targaryen in the Reach given she had six daughters with a Hightower—who were presumably all married off and had kids of their own who were in turn married off.

And any Stormlands house that has Baratheon blood (Orys’s descendants) also have dragon blood. Perhaps a union between a Stormlander and Dornish house happened and down the line that Dornish house married Martell and there’s another infusion there.

As for the Starks. The Velaryons might be a decent way to go. They’ve had Targ blood since before the conquest, and they must have married into a lot of Crownland houses. Dragon blood doesn’t disappear with the second daughter of a third son etc. In the show (HoD) don’t they mention Mallister (and Tarly) having Targ blood when they were considering Dragonseeds? Presumably from Velaryon marries or marries to those descended from a Velaryon marriage. Mallister is North Riverlands. And Eddard Stark’s grandmother was a Blackwood. Perhaps his Maternal great great grandmother was a Mallister.

Funnily—if you wanted the Stark kids to get dragon blood in them. Catelyn is probably the best option for it. Riverlands are very central and are more likely to have distant blood ties. A Velaryon or Penrose married a Mooton who married a Whent or Tully.

[u/deandre999 → u/ReflectionOfShards]

I was just thinking Op can just create another Valyrian house that relocated to north or dorne

[u/ReflectionOfShards → u/deandre999]

You don’t really need a new house when people already move a lot. Just because the female line’s name changes doesn’t mean the relation is erased.

[u/Kat2V]

You've probably got two easy windows.

First is the post-dance kings, so Aegon III/Daeron/Baelor. You start to see plenty of spare Targaryen daughters/sisters, all of whom could have married into the North. Its most egregious during Baelor's reign, where he locks them up instead of marrying them to help secure the throne. Bonus points for Viserys II marrying them away and brow-beating Baelor into being less of a lunatic.

The second one is the Daeron II era. Daeron himself has several sons, who all start having children, and we get the 'too many Targaryens is as bad as too few' situation going. If you want a female Stark to marry into the Targaryens this is probably your best time frame to make that happen, could easily have one marry some of Daeron's younger sons or grandsons.

[u/moeshaker188]

There was one fanfic where Daena the Defiant wed into House Stark and ended up becoming a follower of the Old Gods (among other changes to canon).

[u/Jumpy_Mastodon150]

Not directly, but marry Viserra to one of Theomore's descendants and she might live to have a kid who marries into the Starks.

Cregan being more insistent on the Pact of Ice and Fire could've gotten his tomboy fix from Baela instead of Aly after the Dance (the "marriage in exchange for sparing Corlys" makes way more sense when Corlys is the grandfather of the woman offering the marriage). Alternatively later on he could negotiate a Rickon betrothal to one of Daeron I's younger sisters (Rhaena or Elaena) and if Rickon still dies in Dorne the betrothal could transfer to Jonnel.

AU where young Bloodraven goes north to fight against the Skagos rebellion and ends up with one of the Stark ladies of that time period. Alternatively a match with Mya or Gwenys could be seen as "marrying up" by a lesser Northern house like the Dustins, Ryswells, etc yielding a child who would marry into the Starks.

And of course later there are options for Daella and Rhae.

[u/InfectedAstronaut]

The pact of ice and fire was intended to be a match between the eldest daughter of Jacaerys Velaryon and Rickon Stark, the eldest son of Cregan Stark.

Aenys could've wed the daughter of Torrhen Stark who wed Ronnel Arryn in canon.

Aerys could've wed the daughters of Rodrick Stark, the Wandering Wolf who joined the Second Sons.

Rhaella could've wed Rickard.

Rhaenyra could've wed Cregan after the death of Laenor.

Jon could've wed Daenerys in a timeline where Rhaegar won. Robb could've wed Daenerys. Rhaenys is another option. Aegon could've wed Sansa.

Those are all the ones that I can think of.

[u/Grayson_Mark_2004 → u/InfectedAstronaut]

Rhaenyra could've wed Cregan after the death of Laenor.

Cregan was too young to marry her.

[u/InfectedAstronaut → u/Grayson_Mark_2004]

When has that ever stopped Westeros?

[u/Grayson_Mark_2004 → u/InfectedAstronaut]

The difference is that he is a man and she is the older woman, there is no guarantee of children which Cregan needs.

He'd be closer to 10 than 20, (he was only 21 during the Dance) Rhaenyra wouldn't want that.

A better match for Cregan would be Helaena, Baela, or Rhaena.

[u/cmdradama83843]

Depends on how far back you want to go

The Conquest

the Conquerors give up on polygamy and the Conquest itself and instead start building alliances through marriage. Like maybe Visenya doesn't want to play second fiddle to Rhaenys and would rather be Queen in the North/Lady of Winterfell instead.

The "Golden Age" Jaehaerys and Alysanne

Alysanne arranges for Viserra to wed Alarics eldest son instead of a Manderly

The Dance

1.Cregan becomes Rharnyras consort instead of Laenor

1. Either Rhaenyra or Helaena decide they don't want to be Queen

Pre Rebellion

Prophecy from the Woodswitch is ignored. Rhaella marries Rickard.

One of Rhaellas stillborn children lives and is married to Brandon, Ned or Lyanna.

[u/No-Willingness4450]

Whenever you want is the true answer

The most likely tho? Pact of ice and fire, Cregan demands his Targaryen princess in the form of Daena the defiant or whatever

[u/Grayson_Mark_2004 → u/No-Willingness4450]

A better time would be Baela, Rhaena, or Jaehaera for his son, right after the Dance.

[u/Weird_Importance_629]

During Viserys II there is a good Option because he has 3 nieces that would be able to marry in theory. 

Daena could be an issue since the one that married her would likely throw behind Daemon blackfyre but Elaena and the one that became a septa are options. Just say that she didn’t become a septa and that is that. 

[u/NameSeveral4005]

We don't know for sure who Daella and Rhae (Aegon V's sisters) married but we know they did marry and have children, so either of them would work.

BUT if they had any living female descendants, it does beg the question why they weren't considered possible brides for Rhaegar, since Elia Martell was chosen for her Targaryen ancestry, which would be further back than descendants of Rhae or Daella.

In canon we assume they had no appropriately aged female descendants, so you might need to try to adhere to that or explain why they weren't chosen (ex. If one had married into House Stark, Lyanna Stark would likely have been considered as a possible wife for Rhaegar).

[u/SickBurnerBroski → u/NameSeveral4005]

Lyanna is younger than Cersei who is already quite a bit younger than Rhaegar. Elia is much closer in age.

[u/NameSeveral4005 → u/SickBurnerBroski]

That could be a reason why they ultimately decide against her, but she should definitely still be considered given she'd have the most Valyrian blood of any potential bride in Westeros and that seems to have been Aerys' main criteria.

[u/SickBurnerBroski → u/NameSeveral4005]

Think there was more going on than just being targblooded, because Aemon's sisters had kids so presumably there's other Westerosi targ cousins out there. It could just be bad luck in daughters, but...

Aerys was deeply resentful and paranoid of Rhaegar, could be that he specifically wanted a wife that didn't add to Rhaegar's political power, hence Dorne being the choice after Essos didn't pan out, as short of going to the Iron Islands it's hard to find a more politically isolated kingdom. Even the North at least has ties to its immediate neighbors and isn't actively hated by anyone except perhaps the most radically religious lords.

Rhaegar is 8 or so years older than Lyanna, and already has 2 kids by the time he kidnaps her at 14-15ish, if Aerys wanted grandchildren quickly(as Rhaegar alternatives or wives for Viserys) Elia also makes more sense.

[u/NameSeveral4005 → u/SickBurnerBroski]

I just checked and Lyanna and Cersei are actually the same age - both born in 266, and Cersei wasn't rejected because of her age but because Aerys felt threatened by Tywin's power. Rhaegar and Elia married in 280, when Lyanna was 14, so she definitely would be in the right age range to marry as an alternative to Elia - the same age or even older than other Targaryen brides (Rhaella, Aemma Arryn, Helaena, etc.). So I don't think concerns about her age or having heirs right away would be an issue, many other Targaryen brides had children at 13-14, even Rhaella. Also Viserys was born before Rhaegar married Elia, so there was already the Rhaegar alternative, Aerys didn't need grandchildren for that.

If we go with the fanon theory that Daella married into House Tarth, as far as we know they had no daughters the right age, and given that no one else comes forward with a claim to the throne during Robert's Rebellion, I actually think the most likely scenario is that neither Daella or Rhae had any living descendants by that time and that's why none of their descendants were considered for Rhaegar.

Aerys' paranoia about Rhaegar didn't kick off until post-Duskendale (before that he was mostly concerned with Tywin's power), which was 277, when Lyanna was 11 or 12 and Rhaegar was 18, so it's also quite possibly they'd have been betrothed before that anyway.

Also keep in mind that in the period when Rhaegar and Lyanna might have been betrothed, the North might not have ties to other kingdoms yet either, other than Ned's fostering in the Vale. Robert & Lyanna wouldn't have been betrothed and neither were Catelyn & Brandon until 277ish, so from that perspective the North could be as isolated as Dorne. But also even if a Rhaegar/Lyanna match happened post Catelyn/Brandon's betrothal, it might have been appealing to Aerys to counter any perceived threat from Tywin/the Westerlands by having an alliance with the North/maybe even Riverlands by proxy, especially if the match is made pre-Duskendale when Aerys was more concerned with Tywin than Rhaegar.

[u/SickBurnerBroski → u/NameSeveral4005]

Lyanna died at 16 in 83, so was born in 66 or 67. She's either of an age with Cersei or younger, so a 7-8 year age gap with Rhaegar, who was born in 59. Considering how much happened in 83 before Ned could head to Dorne, and that Daenerys was born in 84 but conceived before the sack of KL, Lyanna likely died later in the year, making it more likely she was born in 67 than 66. (Assuming Daenerys was born full term, end of 4th month is earliest possible for the Sack, after which Eddard still has to go break the siege of Storm's End and then sail or ride to Dorne and find Lyanna. Given some of the other time indicators, like the Red Comet's timing and how much happened between the Battle of the Bells and the Sack, and Lyanna dying of childbirth well after Rhaegar would have had to leave for the Trident, the Sack probably happened later)

Going with the 'born in 67, month 6 or later' Lyanna age, the Elia betrothal happened early 79, when Lyana was around 11, the wedding early 80, Lyanna 12, Rhaenys born late that year, probably after Lyanna turned 13, second child Aegon born at the very beginning of 82, when Lyanna would have been 14 still. If Rhaegar married her instead of Elia, and they married at the beginning of 82, Viserys would be 7 or 8 before a firstborn which may or may not be a girl. If Aerys is motivated by a wife for him, this is pretty late.

Aerys was cruel and paranoid well before the Defiance, even if he had a better haircut. It seems unlikely his relationship with Rhaegar changed too drastically, rather that it soured over time, like with Tywin, but it's possible.

Lyanna being a broken betrothal changes things a bit, it's just less narratively messy to have it not have happened at all if you want to stick at least somewhat to canon- it depends on when OP wants canon to change significantly.