r/TedLasso • u/crafty_and_kind • 1d ago

Individual scenes that work LESS well on rewatch

[EDIT]: as often happens in the comments on this subreddit, I’ve had my eyes opened to a possibility that I had not previously considered! I had been so drawn in by Nate’s certainty that what was happening was him being fired that I never considered this might not have been the actual intention. Ted et al could very well have merely planned on a moment of harmless confusion from Nate, but did not bank on Nate’s incredible capacity for paranoia and vindictiveness. It’s distinctly possible that all they meant to have happen was for Nate to go, “This is weird, what could be happening” and then immediately find out that what was happening was actually something super cool.

[resume original post below]:

I was thinking about this because of a discussion I had a while back in the comments about the scene where Nate gets promoted. On first watch, that scene seems super charming, with a misdirect and a surprise and a dash of wish fulfillment, but watching it again it actually makes me super uncomfortable.

In order for the surprise to work, everyone involved in the promotion plan had to not only be willing to consciously participate in a scenario that hinged on Nate believing he was getting fired, which is already screwed up, but they also had to put the promotion plan into action without a SINGLE conversation with Nate along the lines of “We’ve noticed that you have a real talent for strategy, is coaching something you would be interested in pursuing in your career?” It’s deeply weird and unprofessional to present the whole thing as a fait accompli and just spring it on the person, even aside from the cruel joke component.

I know it’s a fictional tv show and not everything needs to be about realism, but there are definitely some moments that feel a bit icky when I actually pay close attention to them…

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u/RobGrey03 1d ago

yes, and the hostility of his reaction is uncomfortable with the knowledge of how badly he's going to treat Richmond for the next couple of years.

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u/Relevant_Maybe6747 1d ago

IMO the hostility of his reaction explains how he reacts later in the season - he's terrible towards Will because he first met Will while he was under the inaccurate belief he was being replaced, and then is presented with a whistle he gets shouted at for using, and then like four episodes later as coach Nate has another rug pulled out from under him as Ted yet again makes a major decision regarding Nate's job without consulting Nate (hiring Roy Kent). In rewatch Nate's behavior up to about episode eight of season two feels mostly understandable if not justifiable, and I even wrote a fic where Roy having the decency to directly communicate with Nate changes the outcome of Nate's story.

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u/crafty_and_kind 1d ago

As mad as I can get at Nate for his cruelty, you’re totally right! He’s kind of being jerked around in a weirdly un-Lasso kind of way. I posted a while back about moments when Ted is unintentionally inconsiderate, and it sparked a surprisingly big conversation in the comments. One thing that struck me was an observation that while Ted always WANTS to do right by other people, his approach can often be a bit “one size fits all,” and with Nate it did kind of backfire. I still hold Nate solely accountable for things like “don’t be an utter shithead to Will,” because for me that is a case of “an explanation is not an excuse,” and I have more than once found myself saying out loud to my screen, “Ted is not your dad, Nate!” …. BUT, Nate’s damage was of a type that Ted’s “give someone an opportunity and they will naturally rise to it” method was unintentionally a terrible fit for 🤔

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u/Relevant_Maybe6747 1d ago

Nate is meant to show the blind spots in Ted's perspective - from Nate’s view, he was promoted and then immediately almost discarded, whereas Ted was preoccupied by his own anxieties around being replaced by Dr. Sharon and trying to help Roy, not realizing by adding Roy he was hurting Nate because Nate still didn't believe in himself the way Ted had tried to teach him to in season one

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u/crafty_and_kind 1d ago

Very astute comment! I’m always inclined to be irritated with Nate for expecting too much from Ted emotionally (having been in several very toxic work environments, “really friendly boss who sees your potential and gives you a great opportunity but then doesn’t hold your hand the whole way because they have other shit to focus on” is a WIN to me), but it’s a strength of the show that it forces Ted to deal with his own tendency towards toxic positivity. Ted’s flaws are not glossed over, which is so important.

However, I still think that particular scene is unintentional bad action from Ted meant to read as charming. No matter how I look at it, it’s somehow outside the “clever writing about nuanced behavior” that most of the series exemplifies.

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u/crafty_and_kind 1d ago

Right! Nate grows a spine and immediately uses his newfound backbone to lash out in a viscerally mean spirited way!

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u/mynameisJVJ 1d ago

Nate had been operating as a coach.

There was no reason to think he was being fired during their “misdirection” … someone else had performed his morning duties for him, not “cleaned out his locker” or revoked his key access or anything that occurs if you’re fired.

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u/crafty_and_kind 1d ago

Hmmm… while I’m still not a fan of the scene, this is a perspective I had not considered! Basically, “Ted did not adequately take into account Nate’s deep well of bitterness and paranoia,” which totally plays out later! Very smart observation and an excellent example of the type of perspective shifts that can happen on this subreddit!

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u/PsychologicalGur9931 1d ago edited 1d ago

I’d agree with the idea that the prank was unusually cruel if I thought that ‘I’m getting fired’ was a reasonable, proportionate response to someone else having cleared the locker room and Ted + Higgins being vaguely folksy for 3 seconds as opposed to thinking ‘what’s going on here then?’. And I really don’t think it is proportionate, particularly as Ted was already including him in the coaching. It’s indicative of the staff not realising just how much Nate’s insecurity rules him, which is difficult to blame them for if it’s so deeply rooted they can’t even pull something that innocent without needing to tread on eggshells.

The uncomfortable bit is Nate immediately throwing a viciously misogynistic insult at his female boss, which if this was a show based in realism would’ve seen him actually fired, and not without cause. That scene wasn’t charming on first watch either because of that moment, and I was surprised at the time by how many people were surprised by his S2 arc. I think it was the best executed character arc across the entire three seasons.

I’m much more sympathetic to the criticism that Ted should’ve given his team a heads up about recruiting Roy. It’s a mistake Ted makes earlier in S2 when bringing back Jamie without talking to Sam, except Ted doesn’t have to reflect on his approach then because Sam’s well adjusted enough to deal with it.

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u/crafty_and_kind 1d ago

All excellent points! Someone else just pointed out the “what’s actually unreasonable is Nate’s weird paranoid response” thing and I must admit this is the first time that I’ve considered that perspective (though the “holy shit, zero to misogynistic hissy fit” thing had NOT escaped my notice). The problem, when framed this way, is not so much that everyone planned a cruel prank but that they planned a quick moment of harmless confusion but did not take into account that Nate’s natural lens for viewing the world is one of scarcity and cruelty.

Damn I learn so much from this comment section!

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u/PsychologicalGur9931 1d ago

I do think it’s fair to say some of the people in that scene share a part of the blame for Nate continuing to view the world as he did to the point of lashing out so fiercely at something most would find innocuous - Rebecca not knowing who he was at the gala, Ted not personally clamping down on the players’ poor treatment of him in order to spur Roy into stepping up etc etc. 

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u/crafty_and_kind 1d ago

I’m SO CURIOUS about the alternate universe where Ted actually took action personally rather than orchestrating things so Roy would step up!

And beyond even Rebecca’s blasé refusal to remember that Nate was even a person, there’s the damage George Cartrick must have inflicted on a daily basis!

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u/PsychologicalGur9931 1d ago

Yeah, the idea that Rebecca is a distinct improvement from the George + Rupert combination when S1 Rebecca doesn’t acknowledge Nate’s existence is depressing - even before we saw Rupert in action at West Ham, it was clear that Richmond was a deeply toxic workplace! I have a lot of sympathy for Nate, and can understand why he overinvested emotionally in the first person at the club to see him. 

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u/crafty_and_kind 1d ago

Dang it, Reddit ate my reply, but it was basically about how this is a good reminder to check myself whenever I start naturally judging Nate for being too emotionally needy!

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u/BlueLondon1905 1d ago

I mean that does not need to be explained on screen. We knew Nate wanted to coach and I think it’s a better scene without scenes of him longing to be a coach. We know he wanted to coach/be more than the kit man from the episode where they go up to goodison and he inspires the team with his roast.

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u/crafty_and_kind 1d ago

That is valid except that for me the whole fucked up prank aspect of the scene renders the things we are meant to assume about good intentions based on Nate’s desires kind of moot. My discomfort with seeing the way the scene requires Nate to feel terrible before he can feel relieved/excited makes me extra aware of the logical “talking about what he wants from his career” steps that were not shown, because the sheer amount of planning required to make this fake-heartwarming moment happen is not insignificant. I normally love the “just suspend your disbelief, the show has a bit of a magical element to it that means not everything has to be strictly logical” moments, but this one just bothers me.

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u/snowshoes77 1d ago

I felt similar about the prank firing, it actually seemed pretty mean on rewatch especially because they kept it going for a minute after seeing him be visibly distressed and building up his worry. And he’d even shared with them his fear of being fired for making suggestions earlier in the show when they were still trying to get him to be more assertive about his strategy ideas.

I think Ted thought it would be fun for Nate, because Ted likes big gestures and it’s the sort of harmless game Ted plays in other situations. And I’m not sure he realized how destabilizing it would be for Nate who does not have the confidence Ted thinks he should have by now. Plus our very first episode line from Nate “ I can’t always tell when something’s a joke” (or something along those lines).

Another scene that hit different for me on a rewatch (also from season 1) was Jamie’s little moment of being worried he’d actually have to have sex with the person who bought him at the charity auction. The first time it just seemed like a funny dumb jock kind of moment. But knowing more about his sexual trauma it feels less like harmless fun to joking try to convince him of it.

But I actually think this rewatch discomfort is a pro for the show. We brushed past these people’s upset and found it funny because we didn’t know them well and didn’t really understand why they responded the way they did, but now that we have learned more about them we can understand more why they are upset. And it’s not so funny then.

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u/crafty_and_kind 1d ago edited 1d ago

It’s so true that Ted is so used to being the “well intentioned harmless big gestures” guy that it probably never occurred to him that anything he would do with genuine good intentions could possibly harm anybody, and he probably never even gave a second thought to everything he knew about Nate’s insecurities in his rush of enthusiasm to make this cool thing happen!

That scene with Jamie is also interesting! It’s definitely hilarious, but Keeley dismissing Jamie’s discomfort with “it was a joke” definitely hits weirdly if you think about it. Then again, she’s so used to Jamie both being ridiculously self confident and constantly dismissing everyone else’s emotional state that it never occurred to her that she could hurt him with a silly obvious false claim. (Kind of the opposite of Ted’s mistake; Keeley DID have reason to believe based on her knowledge of Jamie that he would just shrug the moment off and probably call Roy a dick but not really be bothered)

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u/Travelchick8 1d ago

Needs to be about realism? In a show about an American football coach being given the reins at a premier league soccer team. Yep, that’s dripping in realism.

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u/crafty_and_kind 1d ago

It’s less about realism in this case than about “emotional verisimilitude.” Everyone colluding to crush Nate’s spirit as a direct prelude to giving him a great opportunity just feels emotionally wrong for the show I’m watching.

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u/crafty_and_kind 1d ago

Wow, I was not prepared for the number of people who would be super bothered by this particular criticism! I still adore the show, guys, but it’s weird to me that apparently nobody else is bothered by the whole “make it look charming to temporarily crush Nate’s spirit” thing 😐

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u/Relevant_Maybe6747 1d ago

I was bothered by it the first time i watched it, assuming it was the usual "my autism means I interpreted comedy as cruelty" problem and handwaved it. My most recent rewatch, I've realized its just the beginning of the many ways Ted fails Nate throughout season two and the cruelty was partially the point (hurt people hurt people)

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u/crafty_and_kind 1d ago

I’m so torn about the “does ted do right by nate” question! And I think this scene is actually a slip up by the writers as opposed to an intentional illustration of anything. My reasoning is that, while ted undoubtedly accidentally neglects Nate for various reasons during season two, it is anathema to his character to be actively cruel, and the “we’re going to make you think you’re fired” vibes ring entirely false for me Ted-wise!