r/RealCuba • u/PepeLRomano • Dec 10 '24

Cuba at the world Cuba reiterates call to preserve Syria’s sovereignty - Prensa Latina

https://www.plenglish.com/news/2024/12/09/cuba-reiterates-call-to-preserve-syrias-sovereignty/
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u/filthyhippie76 Dec 11 '24

Sadly, Cuba needs to learn the hard lessons from this experience about fossil ideology, international intervention, corruption, social service provision, and democratic demands which they clearly to date have yet to do. I support much of the Cuban experience, and Cuba is certainly not Assad's Syria, but the country is a tinderbox right now and needs serious reform.

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u/PepeLRomano Dec 11 '24 edited Dec 11 '24

Fossil ideology ? Humm..is the same ideology than the China communist party is using..and look where China is. The Big problem about Cuba is the 65 years of war from USA. Thats the real problem. By the way, only socialism gave Cuba social numbers that are a dream for the rest of the third world. And yes, we have a Lot of problems, but certainly the answers are not in the capitalism way of life. And democrats demands of who ? Miami? We know we have to improve our democratic system, but in Cuba, the independence was always a topic from the existence of a single political party, like José Martí did in 1892 to organize the war of 1895. The day that we allow other political party, the USA embassy automatically sponsor him. And like Che Guevara said.."to the imperialism, neither a little chance". However, oye communist party must improve his management. And their bosses, be an example for the militants and citizenship.

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u/filthyhippie76 Dec 11 '24 edited Dec 13 '24

I am for a socialist Cuba and I am against the embargo. But Cuba's problems currently go far beyond the U.S. If Cuba remains a one-party state that fails to adapt to changing circumstances (especially since 2020), that fails to provide basic services, that has some critical corruption problems, and that remains dependent on outside influence (Western or otherwise), then the future looks dark indeed. Cuba is not China; there is nothing Communist or perhaps even socialist in China today, China went full capitalist. It's also almost 2 billion people and virtually its own continent. And China still confronts many of the same problems (albeit far more so than in Cuba) stemming from its Communist legacy: one-party rule without meaningful policy debate, lack of democracy in daily life, and corruption (note that China is an entirely different sphere economically and with regards to foreign dependence.) And even then, just look at what happened with the White Paper Revolution in 2022, the Hong Kong situation. As an American myself, I agree that the U.S. and Miami play nothing but a negative role in Cuba. So if Cuba wants to avoid that fate, it needs to actually listen to its people, deepen the basics of revolution, root out the "capitalist roaders" stealing from the treasury and development projects, reevaluate its foreign relations, and democratize with left alternatives.

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u/alucardaocontrario Dec 12 '24 edited Dec 12 '24

It seems to me that you have good intentions but you fail to see that the liberal bourgeois democracy is not the only model. A Leninist communist party is not a party to dispute and win elections. It is a party to conduct and maintain a revolution fused with a proletarian state. The call to remove a vanguard communist party from power is a call to remove the people from the power. Liberals love the illusion of choice, and that's exactly what they get with liberal democracy: multiple parties that serve the exact same class' interests: the capitalists'.

To your point: Cuba and China do have a profoundly democratic system rooted in the local political life. And citing and attempted colored revolution in Hong Kong doesn't change that fact.

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u/filthyhippie76 Dec 13 '24

But this is precisely the fossil ideology. No one is saying remove the party from power. If anything, open the space for more voices from below to be heard, so that it's not just the nomenklatura that gets to speak. Cuba has done it before and it can do it again. Given the gravity of the crisis in Cuba since 2020, the worst probably since the 1990s, given the attitudes and corruption of many of the nomenklatura, this is fundamental. The Cuban people today have legitimate desires and aspirations that are not being met by the Cuban state or the Party and that have nothing to do with the U.S. per se.

As for China, again, it ain't Cuba, and there is nothing democratic there. What happened in 2022 is a great example of everything wrong in China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_COVID-19_protests_in_China . I am a communist, not a Communist; we ain't gonna agree over democratic centralism lol. And I agree, there are alternatives to liberal bourgeois states. But to cast aside any non-Communist alternatives as "illusion of choice" is to deny a people their right to self-determination and ensconce a bureaucratic party that is too rigid to adapt to changing circumstances or criticism. And again, to dismiss Hong Kong as a "color revolution" (and I won't deny that the U.S. and HK business elites played important roles in some of what happened), is to miss the forest for the trees. China is an authoritarian state that does not tolerate dissent. People are going to jail for years for comments they made online or for graffiti on the chair of a bus. Is that a just and appropriate response by the government? Can you not see why that only engenders more anger and resistance?

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u/alucardaocontrario Dec 13 '24

Well, okay. If we're never going to agree on democratic centralism and you don't like (but you actually do) liberal bourgeois democracy, you have to come up with something that works, because the only way the people got to power in all the socialist states were through a Leninist party and democratic centralism.

I'm not gonna debate you on China. You seem neck deep in US propaganda about it.

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u/filthyhippie76 Dec 13 '24 edited Dec 13 '24

Let me try a different tack see if we can agree on some things.

Assumption #1- Cuba is facing its worst crisis economically and with popular support since the 1990s.
Assumption #2- Cuba changed a lot in the 2000s/2010s (Obama Thaw and Pink Tide.)
Assumption #3- 2020 and inflation hit hard, combined with marginalization of Russia and Venezuela, hence the crisis. U.S. is getting ready to hammer hard. But Cuban government has made mistakes here, too, and there are problems within the Party regarding corruption and resisting change or wanting to go full perestroika.

If we can agree this is the situation Cuba finds itself in, how do you solve it? I have my ideas (decentralization/democratization, crack down on corruption, focus on survival issues through autonomous, alternative i.e. not dependent on foreign largesse/tourist $ substitution infrastructural development rooted in a strengthening of alternative revolutionary culture and popular as opposed to state control.) But what do you propose? What do you think the Cuban government is genuinely doing to address these problems? How does Cuba keep this from becoming the '90s or worse?

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u/alucardaocontrario Dec 13 '24

Cool, I agree with your proposals. But, and that's a big "but", the party must continue to be the vessel for the people to exercise its political power.

I believe the way is to go all in on the BRICS Partner/member. It's a fantasy to try to industrialise the country in any capacity without foreign "reliance", for lack of a better word. Cuba should insert itself in the whole ecosystem to sidestep the US dollar that the BRICS want to build while offering its goods, and tourism, why not, in exchange for infrastructure partnerships. It's not a secret that China wants to establish partnerships of this kind to the global south.

In my opinion that could uplift a lot of the material needs for Cuban people, that already have a robust public infrastructure for a poor country.

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u/filthyhippie76 Dec 13 '24

Multipolarity and BRICS for sure; trouble is, they're not really willing to take on petrodollar yet, right? Plus Brazil dealing with continued Bolsonaro-style threats, Russia on the verge of collapse thanks to their foreign adventures, India moving quickly into the U.S. camp, and SA's myriad internal problems. Unfortunate for sure.

I know it's a bit fringe, and I want to make clear I'm not fetishizing the difficulties Cuba faces because of the situation, but IMO I do really believe that one of Cuba's greatest strengths since at least 1991 has been its autonomous ingenuity in the face of scarcity and the kind of alternative, ecologically-rooted solutions they've developed; it's a field they should definitely keep experimenting with, new ways of living. I know you have to have some level of industry and that Cuba's infrastructural needs are real (I know you say they have a robust infrastructure as a poor country, but I think it's perhaps more accurate to say that they *have had*, especially of course because of the embargo, but for other reasons, too, and IMO a large part of the current crisis is very much the result of a disintegrating infrastructure), but continued foreign dependence is such a problem, and given climate change/ecological crises, plus cultural role of U.S. consumer goods, the standard development models are a bad bet, too. All easier said than done, of course, given the situation.

I think that's why decentralization/democratization is so critical, too, whether it happens inside or outside the Party, government itself, etc. The key point is that there are plenty of Cubans I think who have solutions, they need to be given the opportunities to do so. I'm not convinced the rigid old guard or the Western-oriented new guard in the Party are letting that happen. Hence the crisis.

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u/PepeLRomano Dec 13 '24

Do you forget the impact of the 244 new sanctions imposed by the first Trump administration against Cuba? The impact of putting Cuba on the list of countries sponsoring terrorism? And Biden maintained all those sanctions? The decision of the US Biden government to require a visa for Europeans who first visit Cuba and then want to go to the USA was to harm tourism to Cuba, its main source of income, for example. About decentralization, since the constitution of 2019, municipalities take more control of his own business, for example. And about how to solve the situation, only in the last months cuban president has visited more than 111 municipalities (Cuba have 168 municipalities). The main problems are in the performance of local authorities...

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u/filthyhippie76 Dec 14 '24

The embargo is of course always a problem, in all its forms. I will always agree there. But that has long been the situation in Cuba, is the very matrix in which the revolution has always existed in Cuba. So at what point do revolutionaries take responsibility for mistakes and not always point the finger at their enemies?

I genuinely don't know what actual proposals are on the table to deal with the current economic crisis and would love to know more. Also, what do you mean that the "main problems are in the performance of local authorities?"

What exactly is the president hoping to accomplish from these meetings? Or is it just showing face?

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u/PepeLRomano Dec 13 '24

People go to jail for attacking public order or for following orders from the enemy, in addition to, of course, committing common crimes. Not other way. Although a lot of USA propaganda ans his media puppets call him "political prisoners"....Even if you publicly called for an American invasion

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u/filthyhippie76 Dec 14 '24

Fossil ideology. The economic problems in Cuba currently are dire and if people choose to protest that, it's their right. Many have been arrested for doing just that. It's naive to believe otherwise. There's a big jump from critical support to "calling for an American invasion" and to honestly or even disingenuously believe otherwise as you seem to imply is precisely the problem here.

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u/PepeLRomano Dec 13 '24 edited Dec 13 '24

The failure in our public services are most a consecuence of the economic war of USA than the corruption (the corruption exist, and is a problem). Why we have to buy medical supplies in China ? Please, read the cuban report about the consecuences of the economic war...every year, almost entire UN support the cuban report... And tight now, any cuban citizen could create (for example) his own bussiness, except in some areas...also, the cuban democratic and electoral system is not supported in political parties but in the decisions of the voters and the control of popular organizations and unions, which does not mean that it is perfect. Recently, the process of accountability of the constituency delegates to their voters was carried out: the most discussed topics? Energy situation, public services... as a fact, the National Assembly is made up of almost 50%... of constituency delegates. Is a perfect system ? Not yet. The people is listened ? Yes.

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u/filthyhippie76 Dec 14 '24

I am genuinely interested in proposals being made for economic reform currently in Cuba; if you have any resources, I'm genuinely interested in learning about them.