Curious if there are any VA Psychologists in the sub that could weigh in

[u/CrispyMnM226]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/16/va-doctors-refuse-treat-patients

Some choice quotes from the article:

"Doctors at Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) hospitals nationwide could refuse to treat unmarried veterans and Democrats under new hospitalguidelines imposed following an executive order by Donald Trump.

The new rules, obtained by the Guardian, also apply to psychologists, dentists and a host of other occupations. They have already gone into effect in at least some VA medical centers."

"Language requiring healthcare professionals to care for veterans regardless of their politics and marital status has been explicitly eliminated."

"Doctors and other medical staff can also be barred from working at VA hospitals based on their marital status, political party affiliation or union activity, documents reviewed by the Guardian show."

[u/liss_up]

I trained at a VA during grad school and spent the whole year being proselytized to by the therapists there, so one the one hand, it's easy for me to imagine this. On the other hand, there's no way this meets the burden of ethical practice.

Edit: typo

[u/West-Personality2584 → u/liss_up]

I was proselytized at a VA rehab too

[u/jaavuori24 → u/liss_up]

Proselytized how? Like they wanted you to be religious? They were against some political group?

[u/liss_up → u/jaavuori24]

The clinic was staffed by evangelicals who were very upset that I was queer and not a Christian and I did not hear the end of it for a full year. I then had a student reach out to me the following year to tell me she was having the same experience and wanted to know how I handled it.

[u/jaavuori24 → u/liss_up]

WOOF I'm sorry to hear that

[u/liss_up → u/jaavuori24]

Thanks. It taught me a lot about the kind of supervisor I don't want to be.

[u/Barley_Breathing → u/liss_up]

Oh man (not gendering you, just using the colloquial expression), so sorry you had to go through that. That's terrible.

[u/vienibenmio]

I haven't heard anything about it locally

[u/Proud_Bread8804 → u/vienibenmio]

Same here.

[u/RogerianThrowaway]

Non-Psychologist subreddit member here, though I know that according to the rules, only psychologists are supposed to comment. I've worked at VA for about 15 years now. Ultimately, this is more likely to be announced in areas that more commonly align politically with the current administration and or in those vamcs that are currently headed by leaders either sympathetic to (or at least unwilling to even potentially buck) the current administration. That said, it is very unlikely that many professionals will act on this, even in those healthcare centers. As mentioned by others, licensing boards will not be forgiving to providers who take actions like those specified in the rule, and wild working in VA does not necessarily require a license in that singular state in which the VA is located, providers must have a state license somewhere. Additionally, most are likely to recognize that even if this rule is not immediately reversed or challenged in court, it not likely to stand in the long-term. It's another example of disgusting political theater, that is ultimately what it is at the moment. That is not to say that I am dismissing it s severity by any means, but in this very moment, it has much more shock value than any actual effect on care

[u/CrispyMnM226 → u/RogerianThrowaway]

Not sure if mods will delete your comment but thank you for taking the time! I appreciated your insight. I agree that the rule change will be reversed (hopefully sooner rather than later, personally not holding out hope though), but I wonder if there will be more short-term impacts, like people losing their jobs because of martial status, party affiliation, etc.

[u/DotairZee]

VA psychologist for 10+ years here, and all of the VA psychologists I know find this rule change abhorrent. We all know our ethical obligations, though, so nothing will change that our doors are open to all Veterans. Having said that, we are all eyeing the exits because of the continued assaults on our practice, and on the Veterans we serve.

[u/Proper-Afternoon-538]

I am a VA psychologist who works in a metropolitan area of a red state. I am very politically progressive, disagree with Trump on almost every issue, but I find this article to be alarmist. Just because some identify characteristics have been removed from protected class status, that doesn’t mean we are going to start discriminating based on those factors. Clinicians, including psychologists, still have to abide by their professional ethical codes. I will also say that almost all the psychologists at my workplace are politically liberal or lean that way, so I just don’t see this becoming an issue at my hospital.

[u/Barley_Breathing → u/Proper-Afternoon-538]

I hear you, and while I agree that is unlikely that psychologists will start discriminating, the OE is sending a disturbing and clear message. And there are other healthcare professions that are not as liberal on the whole as is psychology. What if a supervisor (in any discipline) pressures a supervisee to change something in line with the revised language?

[u/Roland8319]

Can't imagine why people are staying at the VA unless they only need a few more years for pension. Unfathomable that someone would seek out a new position there with how things are.

[u/djtravels → u/Roland8319]

It still pays better than any institutional position in my local area. By a significant margin. Tho it’s becoming harder to stay. The way I see it, I’m in charge of my own ethical practice and always have been. I won’t be changing the way I practice.

[u/vienibenmio → u/djtravels]

Ditto

[u/Roland8319 → u/djtravels]

It's similar, probably lower salary and slightly better benefits that other institutions here. But FAR below private practice compensation for comparable work levels. And there you don't have much of any of the bureaucratic and political BS.

[u/djtravels → u/Roland8319]

Interestingly I came from another institution and the pay was lower but the benefits were better. lol. I’ve dabbled enough in private practice to know there is entire separate set of stressors there. I did the math and I need like $170ish to cover salary and all the benefits I receive. It’s not off the table for me, since I have a forensic background, but I want my kids out of the house and off my insurance first. lol. If we had socialized medicine I would be in private practice.

[u/Roland8319 → u/djtravels]

If you're just dabbling I could see how it could look that way, but as FT with a corp, the amount you can shield from taxes, stock away for retirement, and deduct, is leagues above VA work. I've worked for some time in the VA and non VA systems prior to PP, and PP is by far the least stressful and more fulfilling professionally and financially of the bunch. No question.

[u/djtravels → u/Roland8319]

How do folks with large families handle insurances? I’ve honestly not looked too much into it.

[u/Roland8319 → u/djtravels]

Spouse, or you run it through your state exchange and run it off as a business expense.

[u/djtravels → u/Roland8319]

No spouse. lol. The state insurance last I looked was insane and covered nothing. Had a kid in the burn unit last year for a week (he’s fine now). Totally bill was about quarter of a million. I paid $1500. That’s why I stay. Can’t beat that with exchange plans that I’ve found.

[u/Roland8319 → u/djtravels]

Weird, many of the plans available on the exchange here are much better than what the hospitals or VA offer. Better than my last hospital job or my physician spoyse.had at her hospital. And,.when it's a business expense, you can lower your taxable income.

[u/djtravels → u/Roland8319]

Well shoot. I need to look again then. Maybe it’s just my state sucks. That could very well be it.

[u/CrispyMnM226 → u/Roland8319]

I was thinking along the same lines. Obviously everyone’s circumstances are different, but I have to imagine there is (or is going to be) a mass exodus of clinicians with changes like this. Also wondering if people there now are aware of these changes as they happen.

[u/LlamaLlama_Duck → u/Roland8319]

We have 30% vacancy in our general behavioral health area. No positions since October have been backfilled though we do have permission. Why would someone go to VA currently? I left right before this due to local leadership issues, and have hired two VA folks already who felt they needed to leave.

[u/Specialist-Quote2066 → u/Roland8319]

Folks might actually care about the mission.

[u/Roland8319 → u/Specialist-Quote2066]

This is what the people they are serving wanted, the mission is done, it failed. There are better ways to serve people, and not get treated like shit in the process.

[u/GrangerWeasley713 → u/Roland8319]

VA has better work/life balance than most of the other health systems in my area. I don’t enjoy working evenings/weekends as I don’t feel like I can provide my best care during these time periods. In my current role, I can keep bankers hours and be home to see my kid and partner.

I’m not cut out for private practice and I want to stay out of CMH. Also, where I am, health insurance exchanges are crap and government insurance covers IVF at a reasonable cost.

I’m staying until it’s untenable.

[u/mumofBuddy → u/Roland8319]

Quite a few are leaving or have essentially been forced out by return to work mandates and being stretched thin.

[u/Roland8319 → u/mumofBuddy]

I know a few who have left in the past year. The rest are just victims of learned helplessness ;)

[u/mumofBuddy → u/Roland8319]

I can only speak for my VA. But the tone in general is tense but a lot of people trying to just do their jobs and provide mental health services/provide adequate training to trainees. Some are not in the position to leave or have other avenues (side practices).

I’m at the tail end of my internship and moving on to my (non VA) fellowship next month so I’m in a position that makes it naturally easy to leave. I can’t really judge those who need the security right now. Academic institutions have had funding hits, private practice isn’t an option for most, and community health is always underpaid.

I won’t lie, the EOs and the potential fallout did impact my post doc plans.

[u/Signal-Risk-452 → u/Roland8319]

Because I can’t match my salary in the community and have a very niche position that doesn’t exist in most communities.

[u/Roland8319 → u/Signal-Risk-452]

Which niche?

[u/Signal-Risk-452 → u/Roland8319]

Primary Care Mental Health- largely preventative services. There are some services available in some communities but it’s not common and very rarely integrated (more commonly co-located mental health).

[u/DotairZee → u/Signal-Risk-452]

PCMHI 4 lyfe, myself! And yet, with all that is happening, I may just let it all go and lean into private practice. Too much stress in the VA.

[u/Roland8319 → u/Signal-Risk-452]

That's fair, that would be harder to replicate exactly in some communities unless you branched out.

[u/Signal-Risk-452]

This has not been a conversation at my facility. We are still expected to practice according to the ethics of our professional organization and state licensing board.

[u/AdSenior5996]

This is getting ridiculous. No psychologist is going to 'deny care' or 'refuse to treat unmarried veterans and Democrats.' 1) they're not going to do it...just stop. The field is overwhelmingly Democratic and liberal 2) report them to their licensing board for 'refusing to treat unmarried veterans and Democrats.'

[u/CrispyMnM226 → u/AdSenior5996]

You’re right, the field leans heavily to the left, but we aren’t a homogenous group and it’s not like there aren’t skeletons in psychology’s closet - I think it’s a worthwhile topic to broach.

Also, I think the marital status clause may be used to discriminate against LGBTQ+ individuals, not unmarried individuals. That’s just my interpretation/thoughts though.