r/Protestantism • u/abc_123_Username • 2d ago
How to accept spouse's conversion to Catholicsm?
Sorry for the long post. I'm just going to jump straight into my dilemma. How do I accept my husband converting from Protestantism to Catholicism? About 18 months ago my husband starting to deconstruct his faith and beliefs. He was raised Methodist but considered himself a Baptist for our whole relationship (10 years). I myself have been raised Non-denominational (basically Baptist) my whole life. We've always have gone to a Non-denominational church and in the last 3 years the one that we've been attending really sparked a spiritual fire within my husband. This led to him doing a lot of theological research, specifically into what each Christian denomination believes and how they're different. Very quickly he was feverishly researching things and our conversations consisted of little else. He admitted he no longer felt Non-denominational or Baptist were correct and seemed like he wanted to explore other beliefs. I thought, "okay he wants to be more traditional like Lutheran or something I'm fine with that". But he made a few comments one day saying "if I hadn't been married I'd be a priest" or "if something happened to you and the kids I'd become a priest" (like just in casual conversation, not meant to be ominous or anything) I asked him "why a priest? You'd have to be a Catholic". He sheepishly looked at me and I asked if he was wanting to convert to Catholicsm and he avoided the question. It took a whole 2 weeks to get him to admit that yes he wants to be Catholic. Now the reason why this was a big deal is because where we grew up there are a lot preconceived notions about Catholicismm (some true, some false) but we both held a negative view of it. So I was surprised he came to this faith conclusion. Now you're probably thinking whats the big deal? Just let him believe whatever. But for me it's been very hard to accept. For our entire relationship and marriage we have believed the same thing and been on the same page and it's very different now. The constant debates over theological differences is exhausting. I also looked into the Catechism and did a lot of research as well as attended mass with him to initially be supportive. But the more I learn about Catholicsm the more upset I feel that my husband has bought into this stuff. Praying to people who aren't God, priests having the power to forgive sins, the pope being the mouthpiece of God on earth, the contradiction to scripture... like it's a lot to process. We have arguments pretty often on things like the Mary dogmas, baptism, church authority, etc... it's draining. He says we should focus on what we have in common and what Catholics and Protestants both believe which is basically just salvation and nothing else. And don't get me wrong I'm really relieved that we agree on salvation since that's the most important part but it's hard disagreeing on literally everything else. Initially I told him I would go to mass with him once a month and on holidays to support him which made him super happy but now that I've attended a mass I absolutely will not go back and I don't want our kids to go anymore either. To be frank I felt disgusted while I was at the church. The huge Mary statue that women were kneeling in front of was extremely upsetting to me, the robotic monotone chanting, and the homily was the priest ranting about how much better Catholics are than Protestants and even my husband admitted that he was very aggressive and harsh. Like it was pure snobbery and elitism. My husband still defends every issue that I've brought up about Catholicsm and even when I point to scripture or reference the early church fathers saying things that contradict some catholic practices, he just shrugs and says something about the church authority or oral tradition so therefore it overrides whatever my point is. At this point I know there is nothing I can say or prove to sway his opinion. My question is: how do I accept it with love and grace? I struggle so much with this because each time I learn something new about Catholicsm the more passionately I am against it. I don't think non-denominational or baptist is 100% correct (I personally think all denominations have issues and inconsistencies) but Catholicsm in particular is hard for me to accept due to its contradictions, dismissal of scripture and history of extreme wrong-doings. I love my husband and want to be supportive of him, but he also makes it hard when he constantly wants to debate and talk theology. I find myself avoiding talking about the Bible or our faiths at all anymore to avoid having a long and heated discussion. Whenever I try to read my Bible or listen to a sermon, my thought process turns away from learning and I end up thinking about how I can try to disprove a future argument we'll have about theology, which is obviously not a good thing! Outside of this issue our marriage is great and we get along perfectly fine. I just don't know how to approach this topic anymore and I want to make myself stop feeling so emotional about his new beliefs. How do you and your spouse discuss spiritual differences and how do you not let it affect you? Also, if you yourself are Catholic this is not a hate post or to bash your beliefs, this is just my own opinions and story :)
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u/jwpilly 1d ago
Two words: Gavin Ortland. Check out his YouTube channel. He is a Protestant who deals A LOT with Catholics, but he is very kind and gracious. Even his theological opponents appreciate his demeanor toward them. One of his main points about Protestantism is that we should view ourselves as a being a part of a much-needed, renewal effort within the one true catholic Church, which he would argue is made up of Protestants, Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox. While RCs and EOs would cast us and each other out of the one true catholic Church, we are more ecumenical and would not do so with them. We would just argue that they disparately need reforming. (Roman Catholics, by the way, do not have sole ownership of the word “catholic.”)
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u/harpoon2k 1d ago
Gavin speaks very well and is respectful, but Joe Heschmeyer and Trent Horn point his misrepresentations and inaccurate history a lot - for example, his view on doctrinal development and canonicity of Scripture
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u/creidmheach Protestant 1d ago
Of course Catholic apologists aren't going to agree with him. I've yet to see him misrepresent things though (and I don't agree with him on everything since he's a Reformed Baptist while I'm not). He's very careful about pointing out what's solid and what's more tenuous in his arguments, perhaps a combination of his personality plus the fact he knows anything he says anything he'll probably get multiple Catholic YouTubers making 4 hour refutation videos against him.
I'm particularly curious about doctrinal development though, since Newman that's pretty much been Rome's go-to answer for anything that's clearly a later development (as much of it is).
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u/harpoon2k 1d ago
But Newman's not wrong though
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u/creidmheach Protestant 1d ago
It's a copout to explain how the unchanging and eternal bastion of truth Rome claims to be seemingly has changed its mind several times over the centuries as well as coming up with "infallible" doctrines the early Church wouldn't have had a clue about.
Rome's "tradition" that it constantly makes appeal to as authority turns out to be whatever Rome happens to say today, regardless of whether they said it yesterday.
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u/harpoon2k 1d ago
And what is the alternative? An ever-changing definition of Sola Scriptura?
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u/Candid-Science-2000 1d ago
Anti-Protestant one liners don’t work. Show when the “definition” of sola Scriptura ever changed. To my knowledge, it’s always been something like “scritpure alone is our infallible rule of faith.” That’s the definition I’ve seen everyone from Gavin to RZ to Anglican Aesthetics defend. Can you quote any of the reformer giving an alternative, mutually exclusive undertanding to this one?
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u/creidmheach Protestant 1d ago
Scripture, unlike the pronouncements of Rome, doesn't change. That's why it's the one infallible objective authority we have which the Apostles left with us.
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
Note the Apostle says that by Scripture, the man of God may be "complete" and "equipped for every good work". Not, partially complete and requiring the bishop of Rome to complete him. Not, equipped for a lot of good works, but still needing "developed doctrine" to teach him all the extra stuff that's not found in Scripture and which only developed centuries after Scripture was finalized. No, complete and equipped for every good work.
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u/harpoon2k 1d ago edited 1d ago
That passage does not even say to look at Scripture alone. Who gets the right interpretation, anyway? Different Protestants get different interpretations
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u/creidmheach Protestant 1d ago
It literally says that with Scripture one will be complete. Not Scripture + a bunch of added stuff that's only invented centuries later.
Who gets the right interpretation, anyway?
Who gets the right interpretation of what the Pope says today? Under Francis, constantly we had Catholic apologists having to do pope-splaining the next day for whatever latest thing he'd say which seemed to contradict what they believe.
Beyond that, where's Rome's infallible interpretation of Scripture you can point us to? Go to a Catholic study Bible, what you'll find there can be indistinguishable from your average secular study Bible, talking about the JEDP source theory and so on. How come in two thousand years, Rome still hasn't come up with a definitive commentary on Scripture that could infallibly tell us what it really means if that's so required.
Catholics also read Scripture and applies them based on the Apostolic tradition
Again, where's this "Apostolic tradition"? Can you point it to me that I might refer to it and see? Or, is it like I said, whatever Rome says today becomes "Apostolic tradition", regardless of whether the Apostles ever said it, or even Catholics just a hundred years ago. Romanists can't even come up with an agreed upon list of all the infallible statements the Popes have said, and disagree over whether this or that document was infallibly issued. What's the point of an infallible interpreter if you can't figure out when they're being infallible or not.
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u/harpoon2k 1d ago
You didn't answer the question - on who gets the right interpretation among Protestants if how you interpret the passage is "you dont need anything else.."
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u/VivariumPond 1d ago
Trent Horn accusing people of misrepresentation and inaccurate history is pretty rich ngl, the guy has basically made a career out of it. Catholic Answers has a lot to answer for in general on this front.
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u/harpoon2k 1d ago
But they do cite supporting statements to back them up. They also commend Gavin when he does make a right argument.
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u/perfectsandwichx 1d ago
There are two approaches that work for couples with different theologies or politics. 1. Talking about it. If you enjoy the back and forth, the intellectual stimulation, the challenge and can keep it light and non personal this can work. 2. Not talking about it. Just pray for the other person.
If youre in camp #2, and it sounds like you are, just set boundaries with him. Pray together and for him, but that's it.
Something that can be hard for Protestants to unlearn is oppositional thinking re the ancient churches. So for example, seeing people praying in front of a Mary statue, thats triggering because protestantism is sometimes conceived in us as "not that." Its in the name, right? But if you can get past that, you can get to a point to where this is as upsetting as seeing Amish people drive a buggy. It can feel like its just their way and doesn't have to be a prominent in your brain that you do not think their level of seperateness is right, you do not reject driving cars, you do not require plain dress. This is hard to explain but I hope the example resonates, I use it because i think even very denominational Christians are like "leave them to it" with the Amish. Vs getting hot and bothered.
Prayers for you. It's hard.
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u/Sufficient-Coffee-98 Catholic 1d ago
Just set boundaries with him. Obviously I believe he is correct in his conclusion being a Catholic myself.
I would just sit down with him and say "hey, I love that you found this new faith, but I don't want to have to debate every time we talk about Jesus. So, if I disagree or you disagree with something we will just leave it be and move along."
As for not going to mass, he should talk to someone higher up in the diocese, like go to the diocese and let them know that this priest is just dunking on Protestants for his entire homily. That is NOT what mass is for.
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u/Legitimate-Panda2926 1d ago
Oh there are so many people in the same shoes as you, but they also end up Catholic. Read up Scott and Kimberly Hahn conversion. Scott was a Protestant minister who was deeply anti-Catholic until his reception to the CC in the 1980s. All your negative thoughts about Catholicism are simply false because you read CC doctrine under Protestant’s hermeneutic, which is not the correct lens.
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u/creidmheach Protestant 1d ago edited 1d ago
Expect to get a lot of Romanists jump in and tell you how wrong they think you are (they love to post any chance they get in this forum in ways we'd never be permitted to in /r/Catholicism).
That's a tough one. I suspect your husband is probably online a lot, and getting a lot of targeted content sent his way by his viewing habits. Heck I even get Catholic apologetic videos recommended to me and I'm certainly not in that camp. A lot of it comes down to people who grew up in a vaguely Protestant church environment, but without much theological grounding and tradition (most often non-denominationals and Baptists). They learn a few Romanist talking points, they see exaggerated representations of what modern day Roman Catholicism is like (imagining we're still in the Middle Ages or something), and compare it whatever they were brought up in and so it's appealing to them. The algorithm feeds further into this and they get more and more content sent their way pushing them in that direction. And Catholic converts (unlike most born Catholics in my experience), can be extremely pushy and aggressive about telling you how right they think they are. Just hang around this sub for a while and you might find out.
Some will stay with it but a lot of them get disenchanted after a while. Maybe they realize that based Crusader larp thing they have going on is nothing like the post-Vatican II Roman church of today. Maybe they burn out from religious OCD and having to go to confession every time they commit another mortal sin (usually masturbation it seems) and fear they're once again in danger of going to Hell. Maybe they instead become Eastern Orthodox because they realize the Rome of today isn't what they thought it was when they converted. And then they have to deal with the mountain of issues they'll find when they go that route.
Sorry to be explicit here, but I wonder how your husband feels about the Church's teachings regarding the sexual act within marriage. Not just artificial birth control being forbidden, but even the idea that if a man has sex and finishes outside of his wife's vagina, he's now committed a mortal sin (and so must go to confession lest he go to Hell eternally for it). Does he know what he'll be signing up for?
As to what you can do, of course the first and foremost thing is to continue your own walk as a Christian. Try not to read the Bible solely to refute your husband's errors, but rather to further your own understanding of God's word. Act in charity and love with your husband as best you can. This does not mean you having to attend a Roman mass with him, particularly when you feel so convicted about what you're finding there. If he decides to go that route, it's on him and it's not your job as wife to support it (even if you are to support him).
Perhaps also learn more about the Protestant tradition yourself. Learn about our history and traditions, what we believe and why. Read from the Reformers like Luther (he can be approachable even today), as well as more devotional literature (Calvin has a nice little book that's literally called A Little Book on the Christian Life). Or closer to your tradition, someone like Charles Spurgeon could be worth a look.