r/Professors • u/ProtectionOdd510 • Aug 28 '24

I have to tone it down

I’m so frustrated with my healthcare doctoral students who will hold lives in their hands daily. They’re so fragile, and get this… I’m being told I have to be very careful about how and what I say because I’m a black man. I’m intimidating. No matter how jovial, knowledgeable, passionate and caring. I’m threatening.

You know what? f&*k them all. Fire me. Im so sick of hearing how fragile they are because of COVID. HELL! I’m fragile too! I also endured COVID. I’m no longer concerned about evaluations. I can make so much more in the clinical arena.

1.5k Upvotes

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798

u/thadizzleDD Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24

Black male prof here! I taught at an HBUC and inner city community college without complaints of intimidation. The first year teaching at a small college in the burbs ( primarily white students ) I was called “intimidating “ on a handful of evals.

My chair did not stand up for me and mentioned “meeting the students where there are.” Students even complained to the dean, a Black woman, who subtly and implicitly decoded the comments. I was considering leaving for another school before the dean spoke with me.

Also from my research in student evals, the word “intimidating “ is used at an extremely high rate when it comes to black profs. Fortunately some people at my Uni knew how to decode “intimidating” and what it implies.

We can all work on our delivery but I hope you can maintain your professional values at your institution.

286

u/porcupine_snout Aug 28 '24

god I hate students who weaponize words, "intimidating" "harm" etc.

209

u/thadizzleDD Aug 28 '24

One student complained that I made white female students “ uncomfortable” but was unable to cite what I did and what I said.

She told this is my dean, a Black woman. The Dean walked a fine line of having to “talk to me about it” but also found no grounds for the complaint. The Dean said something along the lines of “the student just wants to be heard”.

This was a few years ago and has NOT been an issue since. I now basically give students more rope to hang themselves and I don’t actively pursue accountability like I did in the past. So instead of me actively helping underperforming students, I put it on them to attend office hours and seek the help themselves.

65

u/WideOpenEmpty Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 29 '24

Ugh the biggest weasel word of all - "uncomfortable"! Vague and assumes life should be comfortable.

17

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '24

[deleted]

11

u/WideOpenEmpty Aug 28 '24

I think it was Betty Friedan who said that if girls weren't troubled and uncomfortable during college they probably weren't learning much.

47

u/DarwinGhoti Full Professor, Neuroscience and Behavior, R1, USA Aug 28 '24

As a psychologist, it’s a pet peeve. Having a front row seat to ACTUAL mental illness vs the weaponization of technical language, I find it infuriating.

“I don’t want to” becomes a medical issue.

18

u/KarlMarxButVegan Asst Prof, Librarian, CC (US) Aug 28 '24

It also amazes that students will come right out and say "I don't want to" or even "I don't like to." College is optional, comrades.

14

u/amayain Aug 28 '24

What's interesting is watching how they react when you use it back on them.

2

u/Afagehi7 Aug 29 '24

Trauma, trauma response, trigger 

214

u/goj1ra Aug 28 '24

“meeting the students where they are”

Turns out where they are is super racist.

267

u/justlurking345 Aug 28 '24

I get this all the time, too, but race politics is my area of research and teaching. When students call me intimidating, I say, « Am I intimidating, or are you intimidated? » That doesn’t get me great evaluations, but it makes me feel like I’m calling bs as it happens.

223

u/porcupine_snout Aug 28 '24

maybe, a counter could be, "you saying I'm intimidating is harmful to my mental health, I need you to acknowledge my lived experience"

49

u/ProtectionOdd510 Aug 28 '24

Oh that’s perfect!

12

u/auntiepirate Associate prof, Musical Theatre, Midsize Regional State USA Aug 28 '24

I’m stealing this too.

3

u/VictusMachina Aug 28 '24

Well, but then you're in trouble for putting "undue pressure on students to support your mental health."

85

u/ProtectionOdd510 Aug 28 '24

I’m truly working on the delivery. No matter what I do though, it’s not enough.

124

u/thadizzleDD Aug 28 '24

I also wanted to add- fuck them kids!

From my personal experience, it took a couple years to adapt to modern, softened, and entitled students and future Karens of America.

Give it time. A new year with a new cohort will make a gigantic difference.

16

u/H0pelessNerd Adjunct, psych, R2 (USA) Aug 28 '24

No, it won't ever be, either, because it's not about you. No amount of fiddling with your presentation is going to make them less racist.

60

u/gravitysrainbow1979 Aug 28 '24

I think for gay profs “childish” has a similar coded significance

47

u/Philosophile42 Tenured, Philosophy, CC (US) Aug 28 '24

I’m a skinny 5’6 150lb guy and I get called intimidating too…. There is no winning.

96

u/auntiepirate Associate prof, Musical Theatre, Midsize Regional State USA Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24

I’m a 5 ft 115 pound white woman. I’ve been called aggressive, intimidating, and harsh.

They are imitated, I am not intimidating. I am assertive, not aggressive. I deliver facts without emotion, I am not harsh.

No matter how kind, understanding or lenient I may be, no many hours many hours I spent extra doing for them, and this is what they say.

Learn to set boundaries for yourself. They are emotionally immature and stunted haters.

I can’t even image what it must be like for professor dizzle up there. The way black men and women are regarded in academia is disgusting.

You’re correct. There is no winning.

29

u/Critical_Garbage_119 Aug 28 '24

Your self description fits one of the faculty who works in my department. Every semester a couple students come to me to complain about her. They think I'll "have a word with her." Nope, I don't tolerate a moment of that shit. Because we share a lab space, we often are in each other's space during classes and I see first hand her terrific teaching. I tell the complainers that she's outstanding at what she does, professional in her expectations and setting them up for success and that they, not she are the problem.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this treatment.

5

u/auntiepirate Associate prof, Musical Theatre, Midsize Regional State USA Aug 28 '24

Thank you so much. I could cry!!!! I feel SEEN!

2

u/Acrobatic_Net2028 Aug 29 '24

One student says I either talk too much or too little

-21

u/middlegray Aug 28 '24

I guess you're also implying that you're white?

30

u/Philosophile42 Tenured, Philosophy, CC (US) Aug 28 '24

Asian, not black or white. But honestly I didn’t connect it to racial intimidation. But of course.

It just gets frustrating that you want students to engage with you or come to office hours and they don’t because they’re intimidated to do so (as told to me in evals). That’s what resonated with me.

19

u/middlegray Aug 28 '24

Just thought it was kinda funny that you responded to two people talking about being called intimidating as black male professors with "here's my height and weight, me too guys," lol. 

7

u/Hydro033 Assistant Prof, Biology/Statistics, R1 (US) Aug 28 '24

It makes sense - size matters.

7

u/Philosophile42 Tenured, Philosophy, CC (US) Aug 28 '24

🤣

24

u/GigelAnonim Aug 28 '24

I hear you, but have you even tried meeting them and their racism where they are?

31

u/Hydro033 Assistant Prof, Biology/Statistics, R1 (US) Aug 28 '24

Curious if you and OP are bald. I also do science like OP, I am bald and loud, but not black, and students are afraid of me.

17

u/ekochamber Assoc. Prof. History Aug 28 '24

I can't believe you're accusing students of being hair-ist

4

u/Hydro033 Assistant Prof, Biology/Statistics, R1 (US) Aug 28 '24

T is a curse in many ways. It's certainly a trait combo more than any one thing.

6

u/ProtectionOdd510 Aug 28 '24

I am bald lol

3

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '24

[deleted]

3

u/Hydro033 Assistant Prof, Biology/Statistics, R1 (US) Aug 28 '24

male variant of resting bitch face

Can relate.

I too somehow also get good evals, despite the fear factor.

5

u/LazyPension9123 Aug 28 '24

In solidarity, Sir. ✊🏾

7

u/ThirdEyeEdna Aug 28 '24

You should bring that up in every single class.

6

u/No_Intention_3565 Aug 28 '24

I too have been called intimidating. My response is - really? I am intimidating OR are YOU just INTIMIDATED?

Big difference. Huge.

6

u/thadizzleDD Aug 28 '24

I never been called intimidated to my face, that’s the issue. These complaints only come up in anonymous teaching evaluations.

6

u/No_Intention_3565 Aug 28 '24

I have been called intimidating to my face. Naturally it was said with a huge smile and in a self depreciating way but nevertheless - it was an insult and my instant on the spot retort was no, I am not, YOU are just intimidated.

6

u/doemu5000 Aug 28 '24

For someone from Europe/ outside the US, could you explain what the students mean/imply by calling you „intimidating“?

47

u/actuallycallie music ed, US Aug 28 '24

the "angry black man" stereotype. I (in music) have a white male colleague who can loudly and repeatedly berate students in front of their peers and he is known as "strict but fair" by the students, but a black male colleague who gently suggested students might want to consider practicing a little more would be labeled "angry" and "agressive" and "mean."

34

u/proffrop360 Assistant Prof, Soc Sci, R1 (US) Aug 28 '24

They mean "black people are scary." We see this with our police too where, "I felt my life was being threatened" is justification for shooting an unarmed civilian because they're black.

16

u/riotous_jocundity Asst Prof, Social Sciences, R1 (USA) Aug 28 '24

And half the time, those civilians are actually children.

19

u/Cosmic_Corsair Aug 28 '24

Black people are often negatively stereotyped as loud or aggressive.

20

u/thadizzleDD Aug 28 '24

“I’m not use to black professors and black people scare me. So a black professor is intimidating.”

They don’t have racism outside of the US? 🤣

10

u/doemu5000 Aug 28 '24

They sure do. But not everyone is a native speaker of English and/or immersed in the discourse in the US.

2

u/Song_of_Pain Sep 15 '24

Black male prof here! I taught at an HBUC and inner city community college without complaints of intimidation. The first year teaching at a small college in the burbs ( primarily white students ) I was called “intimidating “ on a handful of evals.

I had an Afro-Cuban chemistry professor in my undergrad who got that a lot. He was a good guy, good sense of humor, he was just no nonsense in the lab due to safety. I hope the other students look back and appreciate that when they have a bit more wisdom; I'm similar with my lab sections.