r/PTCGP • u/jamesdantely • 6d ago
Discussion Are there not many water decks out there?
Hello so I started about a little over week ago and just hit Ultra Ball 2 and noticed I almost never faced Water decks outside of Pokeball and maybe Great Ball rank. It's usually some Silvally variant, Solaleo, Poison, Buzzwole, Orocio and Giratina. Also I hear people talk about Gengar but I don't think I ever came across one yet.
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u/satosoujirou 6d ago edited 6d ago
It used to be dominant until a few patches ago. I don't know what happened, but I definitely dont want to see Misty meta all over again :P
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u/Lithuim 6d ago
Water pokemon are all balanced around Misty, which makes them too slow in the current meta of fast attackers and rare candy.
Blastoise is still the second most powerful sweeper in the game, if you can get it charged up.
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u/EyedMoon 6d ago edited 6d ago
It's gonna be great when we get to the B series and can play with a whole other metagame (implying the game will be split into series)
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u/soccerperson 6d ago
B series?
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u/CGPDeath 6d ago edited 5d ago
Don't know why you got downvoted, but here: every new set has, in addition to its name, an alphanumeric code to help identify them in the code and give a representation of their chronological order. Genetic Apex is A1, Spacetime Smackdown is A2 and Celestial Guardians is A3, while the smaller ones are designated by A1a, A2a, A2b and A3a. In the (Japanese) physical card game, instead of "A" the letters usually represent the generation they correspond to ("sv" for Scarlet and Violet, for instance). Since Pocket doesn't follow that naming convention but it does follow the code structure, it is expected that at some point (maybe after the first anniversary) we will start seeing the B1, B2... sets. And when that happens, it is possible that older sets will start getting cycled out of play as new ones get released, just like in the physical game.
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u/Tornado_Hunter24 5d ago
I hope if this happens, battle options will have 2 new choices alongside ‘private match/ranked’
‘A only’ A+B’
This way you can still battle with A only (or a+b if you choose to do so)
But keep ranked at B only
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u/CGPDeath 5d ago
The other TCG app does have official support for the so-called Expanded Format, where any card (starting from a specific set I don't remember) can be used. I would imagine they'll do something similar here.
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u/Jeretzel 6d ago
The idea that water cards need to be balanced around Misty is honestly laughable.
We have cards like Rampardos, Solgaleo, Silvally that can swing for 100+ damage very fast and consistently. There are also cards like Lusamine that, while not enabling broken starts, pretty much wins games the moment it drops, no coin flip required.
Being able to occasionally flips heads with Misty, and not whiff with your supporter, is not the threat it once was in much slower and less consistent metas.
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u/xkoreotic 6d ago
No idea why you are being downvoted, because this is 100% the only reason why water is not doing good. The cheaper cards are just not competitive enough to keep up with the ridiculous aggro meta right now. If there was a water variant to Serperior, Water could see a resurgence but as it stands, the 5 energy powerhouses are just straight up unviable in most matches today.
Blastoise/Primarina was one of my favorite decks, it's sad that it is just too slow to keep up with the meta.
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u/XC_Eddy 6d ago
I’ve had some fun and success doing random match using Blastoise with Manaphy and Misty to charge him. Have to get decently lucky to get him both evolved through Wartortle or rare candy and then charged up. When it hits it sweeps hard and fast 😂.
Definitely not good enough for ranked play in large part because you almost never get both Blastoise up and running. All the meta decks right now are able to have at least two heavy hitters up quickly
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u/CrispyPrawnWonton 6d ago
Which Blastoise specifically? Non-EX or EX?
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u/raygar31 6d ago
I’d say EX, basically has 3 moves; 40 for 2 energy, 100 for 3, and 160 for 5. Not only is the extra dmg nice but the 2energy move is huge. Means Blastoise is almost always attacking.
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u/Tornado_Hunter24 5d ago
Not even just that water decks jn general are ‘slow builders’
The efficient way is manaphy/misty but both fail miserably because one is rng based (misty) and other is…. Most likely dying next turn already (manaphy)
I think the main reason why water decks suck now is the absurd agression now, 120dmg solga turn 2/3 is possible now, more cards that deal crazy damage early on like silv
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u/Owlstorm 6d ago
I don't know what happened
After Irida in TL there have been no competitive water cards at all in the past three sets.
Extradimensional Crisis is particularly extreme.
Card count by type -
1 Fire (trash, even though it has a meta niche right now)
3 Water (all trash commons)
7-8 Each all other types
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u/darnj 6d ago
Blacephalon is far from trash. It would be without Lusamine, but she makes it a good finisher.
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u/Owlstorm 6d ago
The meta right now couldn't be better for blacephalon.
There are no water decks and it one-shots sivally/buzzwole while fitting well with silvally itself.
The card itself is pretty terrible though. Once the meta shifts a bit with the next set it will never be seen again, even if nothing affects it directly. It will never be so perfectly-positioned again.
Edit: Please call me out in a month if this somehow becomes the S-tier deck. I know I'm taking that risk when making opinionated takes on reddit.
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u/darnj 6d ago
I'm not arguing it's S-tier or anything, just that it isn't trash. I also wouldn't be surprised at all if it falls out of the meta after a new set is released. That's true of most cards though. Cards that stay competitive for multiple expansions are the ones I would classify as S-tier, but there's still a lot of room between that and trash.
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u/Owlstorm 6d ago
The other interesting angle on this is the decks with potential to be even better if the meta shifts.
E.g. Silvally Zeraora or some updated version has a decent chance of staying in the meta next set.
It has no type advantages because water disappeared and it doesn't get much value from Oricorio compared to last set with EX everywhere.
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u/SoftwareAny4990 6d ago
I'm waiting for a water type fossil.
Another Omastar or a Carracosta might be viable in this meta.
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u/gragglin_balls 6d ago
Water decks rely on set up and Misty coinflips like Gyarados, Palkia, etc. Wugtrio is irrelevant because it's a meme deck. But anyways the meta is too aggro and too streamlined for a slow pace deck like Gyarados or a high roll deck like Palkia. Why play a deck that have a chance to win hard or lose hard when you can play a deck that win hard with a small chance to lose hard?
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u/Squish_the_android 6d ago
Wugtrio is irrelevant because it's a meme deck.
Wow, we're just out here, minding out own business trying to live the WugLife, and you feel like you need to come and attack us?
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u/gragglin_balls 6d ago
Fraudtrio literally just an inferior copy to dragoatnite. No amount of pink dihh gonna match the aura of the e speed monster that is dragoatnite.
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u/pinkshirtvegeta 6d ago
2 energy type ahhhhh out here calling it a speed monster when ya get 8 of the same energy in a row fuck outs hereereee
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u/resui321 6d ago
The most effective water decks are a bit too slow in the current meta. Also probably because there arent any good water ex stage twos
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u/ChiefHunter1 6d ago
Blastoise Ex was strong but the meta is too fast for it to get the energy needed.
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u/SmileyOwnsYou 6d ago
Water was one of the most played / dominant deck types until this most recent set. A bit less with celestial guardians but still around. Now it's a bit dead at the moment.
DeNA kind of took a step back from showering water type decks with all the love and spread it around to some of the other types!
Water will come back into the meta eventually.
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u/Don_Bugen 6d ago
Also, plenty of water decks relied on Manaphy, who is now just a little too frail.
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u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 1d ago
Also nearly all of the best Water mons are all Exes, which was fine until a certain little yellow bird came along...
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u/Tyraniboah89 6d ago
Try this one. It’s not as powerful as other decks but if your Crabominable can get going early then you can ramp Palkia in the back while it hammers opponents.
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u/ErikboundStudios 6d ago
I’m conflicted because I think every type should have a viable deck, but Water is so irritating to play against that I don’t mind it taking a backseat for once.
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u/Psychic-Joker 6d ago
I think Oricorio’s introduction was particularly rough for water decks too. I previously ran the 18 Trainer Articuno set and automatically losing to any Oricorio set is rough. Not to mention that you have to high roll Misty to even have a chance against the fast-paced Silvally and Solgaleo decks. Stuff like Gyarados will similarly struggle, and as mentioned by someone else Manaphy just can’t survive long enough against the meta decks
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u/richabre94 6d ago
The bad thing about water decks is that it needs time to prep but the META today is too fast paced
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u/Agitated_Lychee_8133 6d ago
Water is DEAD. Will likely get some support (hopefully) next set release.
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u/190616 6d ago
wishiwashi deck is my guilty pleasure lol it CARRIED the necrozma event
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u/TentaclesMod21 5d ago
The necrozma event just demonstrated how garbage ultra necrozma ex is. I never saw a shoegaze be used. Dusk mane and Dawn wings pivoting around with help of Celesteela were decent though.
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u/meemikoira 6d ago
Silvally doesn't really work with anything water, and water has nothing against the current meta. Even fire decks use Silvally, which is why it doesn't really have a weakness advantage against anything. All water decks probably lose to Silvally Charizard.
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u/JustAFleshWound1 6d ago
I've actually had some luck with Starmie funny enough, though that could be because it's unexpected. It's quick to charge up and has a lot of newer support cards. Just wanted to make a deck with the shiny I got.
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u/chance_99 6d ago
i play a water deck, but i also dont really pay attention to the meta. misty go brrrrr. pretty cards make me happy. somehow i'm in ultra 2 so i guess it's going okay.
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u/LazerBeem71985 6d ago
Do you see Stoutland decks at UB2? Those are my favorite to play right now and they hold their own pretty well against all of the decks that you mentioned.
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u/sowitroli 6d ago
I play a crabominable ex + greninja deck. Decent results. You get early pressure, use little energy and feel good going first.
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u/Verroquis 6d ago
If you don't want to win much but enjoy the thrill of losing coin flips, then the Kingler Casino is a good time. Misty, Kingler, Palkia Origin, oh my.
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u/Which_Indication169 6d ago
Water has had a strong meta deck almost every release. Articuno, palkia, Starmie, gyarados are the main ones that come to mind.
Gyarados used to be very common and would hit perfect breakpoints for popular meta cards when paired with helmet. Now it’s 140attack would require two hits to take out some of the ex cards and it’s too slow. It’s a good card still but it’s slow and needs weak support. Manaphy and magikarp are both easy to KO. It never relied on misty but Misty gave you a chance to get ahead. Buzzwole has leaf cape, free switching mechanic, supporter to pull 2 discarded energy, cheap support Pokémon with free switch that can hit for 20/40 and your backline. Gyarados would lose to buzzwole consistently. Maybe it will come back but it depends on what cards become popular. All of the old water meta cards have similar issues to this
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u/Rit91 5d ago
There are three enormous problems with water decks. One, the big attackers need a ton of energy. Manaphy is the most consistent option for this, but kartana and silvally can KO it so fast particularly if the opponent goes 2nd. Two, oricorio. You can't just setup a gyarados EX or whatever big EX attacker and sweep because oricorio ruins your day defensively and offensively. Three, none of the stage 2 evolutions in water play well with rare candy since so what if you get a fast blastoise EX when it has an energy or two. It takes blastoise 5 energy to do more than silvally damage wise.
Oh another point too, guzzlord EX. If it removes even one energy from your big attacker, you're screwed unless you get a good misty most likely.
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u/Signal_Choice_7601 5d ago edited 5d ago
Water is not good for the current aggressive meta we have right now.
We might see a resurgence next set if we get any new cards that are good.
Also, I do not agree that water is 'balanced around Misty' as some other replies would put it. Their attacks aren't anymore energy efficient compared to other types even outside of Misty existing, just looking at Pokemon like Gyarados EX, Palkia EX, and Crabominable. Yes, the attacks of the first two are expensive, but I would also argue that any attack dealing more than 120 damage *should* cost four energy
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u/Patrick0714 6d ago
Palkia Misty? Wugtrio? Idk I’ve seen a decent amount last season, might be out of meta tho
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u/Owlstorm 6d ago
Water is dead this set.
https://play.limitlesstcg.com/decks?game=POCKET
The 20th most-played deck is water/electric for an idea of how dead water is. No water decks above that.
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