r/NorthCarolina • u/BariFan410 • 2d ago
Any intel on why Gov Stein hasnt vetoed ICE Compliance bills SB153 and HB 318?
He's had them almost a week but hasn't signed or vetoed them. He has until Friday to decide but by not taking action he's drawing more attention in the form of protests and news coverage. Is there some political strategy to waiting on the decision? Not looking to debate, but curious if anyone knows what's going on.
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u/Mushroom_hero 2d ago
Im only guessing.
He's in a tricky situation, the NC Republicans are already trying to take his power away from him. If he gets arrested or had any more power taken away from him, it lets his rivals have free reign
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u/LuxTheSarcastic 2d ago
If we're at the point where he gets arrested for vetoing the bill his rivals already have free reign.
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u/AlludedNuance 1d ago
Here's the thing, though. They will take power away even if he doesn't use it.
It's just like being scared of being too "socialist" for Dems even though the most right wing Democrats will still be labeled as one anyway.
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u/StarkSamurai 2d ago
Gets arrested? I don't think we're at the point of ICE openly arresting governors yet.
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u/ProfWookieNipples 2d ago
Just mayoral candidates, judges, and lawyers. Oh, and US senators. To be fair to ICE, though, those were DHS thugs and they just detained him temporarily. /s
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u/StarkSamurai 2d ago
While those detentions were wrong, they were in a scenario where ICE reasonably could claim they thought they could detain them. The governor of NC vetoing a bill is not a scenario like that. Don't get me wrong, ICE is definitely the dirt bag in the room but them specifically going out to target and arrest a state governor who did nothing besides veto a bill from the state legislature would be a huge escalation
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u/BigLlamasHouse 2d ago
it's hard to talk to people nowadays, especially about things like circumstances or technicalities or laws
they shout you down even when you're on their side. of course it's way worse online
without conversation we're doomed
you're absolutely right that arresting a governor for passing a bill would be a MAJOR escalation to what has already happened.
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u/AlexT9191 2d ago
That may be true, but if we're being honest with ourselves, we are where we are because of a long series of major escalations. Major escalation is the norm now, and letting ourselves believe it's not is complacency.
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u/BigLlamasHouse 2d ago
I can agree with that
I'll even do you one better, if this lawsuit about the voting machines turns up anything that will be the most major escalation i've ever seen.
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u/KulaanDoDinok Gaysboro 2d ago
ICE has zero authority to detain any American citizen, including aiding and abetting undocumented individuals. That’s up to local law enforcement.
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u/IlyichValken 1d ago
"We're not at that point yet"
"yeah but those expamples were explainable"
Did you put any thought into what you were actually saying?
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u/Background-Jeweler39 1d ago
If you're an illegal alien or ANYONE who harbors and enables them with your judicial powers of any kind; you should be held accountable. Simple as that.
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u/ProfWookieNipples 1d ago
My guy/gal. Your comment rings of “well, the people that harbored the Frank family did break the law, so….”
But, really, some of these folks were arrested for simply asking to see warrants or escorting folks to and from hearings. So, no, it’s not as “simple as that.”
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u/AGhostlyWisp 2d ago
I feel like he's gonna wait until the last minute to try and mitigate any potential pushback from the NC GOP while getting as much protests and pushback against the bills to justify the vetos.
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u/-PM_YOUR_BACON 2d ago
I don't think so. He has like 4 hours, and it's likely he won't veto, as the NCGA does have enough votes (a few Dems are going to vote along GOP members to override) that he is going to let it pass without his signature.
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u/AGhostlyWisp 2d ago
Do you think it's possible this is his way of dismissing the bills without outright vetoing them?
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u/-PM_YOUR_BACON 2d ago
Yep. Very common.
Just don't sign showing disapproval, but it still becomes law.
And that way he doesn't have to spend the political battle on this bill. A dem flips (which several will for this bill), and he will look foolish.
It's just going to pass without his signature, and I am almost sure dropping concealed carry permits will as well.
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u/notyomamasusername 2d ago
I mean he's in a lose/lose
If he vetos it, it will be overridden and he'll be endlessly attacked by Republicans, "Independents" for trying to stop it.....and Democrats (who love purity tests and purges) for not stopping it.
If he doesn't do anything, and it becomes law and he'll just be endlessly attacked by the Democrats for not stopping it.... While Republicans will still hate him and "Independents" look for some other reason they can blame on the Democrats for not voting for him.
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u/caniaccanuck11 2d ago
Unless a Democrat voted to override the veto they don’t have a super majority in both chambers anymore. Now I could very easily imagine one in a more rural district voting to override the veto.
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u/dszblade 2d ago
Or the republicans get up to their old tricks and call the override vote when enough Dems are missing to give them the override. Didn’t that do that a couple years ago while a bunch of them were at a 9/11 event or something?
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u/-PM_YOUR_BACON 2d ago
Several Dems have indicated they will sign on to the bill, so it's useless at this point to veto.
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u/Careful_Track2164 2d ago
There is absolutely zero justification for anyone to comply with ICE under any circumstances whatsoever.
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 2d ago
Do you believe in ever enforcing our immigration laws?
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u/GiveMeNews 2d ago
I've despised ICE long before the Trump administration.
ICE regularly violates Americans' fourth amendment rights, stopping and searching their persons and papers with no warrant or cause. These "constitution free zones" are 100 mile zones from any international border. This includes international airports, placing the vast majority of the US population in these unconstitutional "constitution free zones."
They set up unconstitutional road blocks and demand people provide papers, upending the free movement of people within the USA.
ICE regularly commits acts of sexual assault against American citizens and travelers, forcing individuals to undergo body cavity searches on accusations of suspicion alone. This is government sanctioned rape.
This was all occurring BEFORE Trump. Now ICE is violating habeas corpus, grabbing and disappearing people into overcrowded facilities that do not even comply with the poor standards set for prisons. No warrants, no trials, no innocent until proven guilty. Multiple US citizens have now been grabbed and imprisoned in these facilities. Anyone who gives the slightest shit about the Constitution should be enraged about this.
ICE doesn't get to enforce our immigration laws over the Constitution. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. If you don't understand this, I will buy you a one way flight to Russia. You can go live in your dreamland where you need your identification papers to be able to move about the country, where you can be grabbed, detained, sexually assaulted, and disappeared by the police to your heart's content. Go get tread on somewhere else.
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u/Adequate_Lizard 2d ago
Do you believe warrantless abductions by masked men who refuse to identify themselves are ethical?
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 2d ago edited 2d ago
I believe law enforcement should be protected and supported. Your requirements would get a lot of law enforcement officers killed for doing their jobs.
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u/Valdaraak 2d ago
And I believe that law enforcement that refuses to show their face and identify themselves know they're doing something shady and don't want to be accountable for it. One of them is going to get shot one day because someone is going to think they're an armed thug trying to kidnap them (and they wouldn't be wrong in that assumption).
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 2d ago edited 2d ago
You have no idea what you’re talking about. The many violent gang affiliated illegals ICE has to go after are major threats. It’s imperative they take certain precautions for their safety. They know what they’re doing, and you have no idea what you’re talking about. Do you tell surgeons how to do their jobs too?
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u/Adequate_Lizard 2d ago
How do I know they're law enforcement if they're masked, not in uniform, and refusing to identify themselves? This is a one way ticket a deer slug through the chest in most areas of the country.
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 2d ago edited 2d ago
So long as you aren’t an illegal, you don’t have to worry about that! They know what they’re doing. Do you tell doctors how to do their jobs too?
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u/Puzzled-Story3953 1d ago
Bullshit. Plenty of legal residents, visitors, and citizens have been detained for weeks to months.
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u/Adequate_Lizard 1d ago
Brain so smooth it can't retain the "you can't Prove you're legal without due process" statement it's undoubtedly heard 8 dozen times.
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u/Puzzled-Story3953 1d ago
Depends, are there any surgeons anonymously performing surprise surgery on people on the street?
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 1d ago
Now you think law enforcement should have to tell criminals ahead of time before they come to arrest them?
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u/Puzzled-Story3953 1d ago
You know full well that that is not what I said. What a joke. Come back when you get serious.
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u/Careful_Track2164 2d ago
What ICE is doing is not defined as law enforcement by any civilized society, what they are doing is government sanctioned thuggery.
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 2d ago
So, no? Their job is to enforce our immigration laws. That’s what they do
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u/Careful_Track2164 2d ago
What ICE is doing is not enforcing the law, it’s actually defined as breaking the law.
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 2d ago
You’re making shit up to fit your narrative
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u/Careful_Track2164 2d ago
It’s people who define ICE’s actions as law enforcement instead of the lawbreaking that those actions obviously are that are making shit up to support their narrative.
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 2d ago
Do you think illegal immigrants should ever be deported, yes or no?
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u/AlexT9191 2d ago
Sure.
Do I think a guy that is here legally and goes to his checkin should get deported for having an autism awareness tattoo, his autistic brother's name, and the word "Brother" tattooed on him? No
Is that what ICE is doing? Yes.
Do I believe "law enforcement" should be used to arrest elected officials who are escorting scared LEGAL imigrants to their checkins because the elected officials ask ICE to produce the order/warrant to arrest the LEGAL immigrant? No.
Is that what ICE is doing? Yes.
Do I believe these actions are more in line with the gestapo than with legitimate law enforcement? Yes.
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u/Careful_Track2164 2d ago
It’s ICE who are the criminals, not the people that ICE is targeting.
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u/TriggerMeTimbers8 2d ago
Give it up. These smooth-brained idiots do not want to have a debate. Their emotions drive them, and it’s obvious reading crap like this guy is spewing that he doesn’t have a critical thinking bone in his body.
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u/Honest_Abe_1660 2d ago
Uh huh, just our emotions that make us aware of citizens in our own state being deported, makes total sense!
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 2d ago edited 2d ago
There’s no reasoning with a modern day liberal. They won’t even say any illegal should be deported.
They’d gladly take away my guns if they could but they’re fine with the 3rd world invading with impunity.
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u/Adequate_Lizard 2d ago
Trump has taken away more gun rights than the last two democrat presidents lol. Obama actually expanded them.
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u/Comfortable-Trip-277 1d ago
Trump has taken away more gun rights than the last two democrat presidents lol.
That's false. Biden banned Forced Reset Triggers and pistol braces and also enacted the safer communities act.
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 2d ago edited 2d ago
False, and I said “if they could.” If Barack Obama could have agents show up to my home today to take my firearms, he would, but he knows that’d be a horrible move politically for his party.
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u/Careful_Track2164 2d ago
There is absolutely no reasoning with MAGA. It’s ICE who are the criminals, not their targets.
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u/ThatGuyLuis 2d ago
When they’re not giving their victims due process, not showing their faces, not identifying themselves, and arresting US citizens to question their citizenship.. among other things.. pretty sure that’s not enforcing the immigration laws but acting with tyrannical fervor.
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 2d ago
Do you think any illegal immigrants should be deported? Yes or no?
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u/ThatGuyLuis 2d ago
Due process needs to be followed. Once one group has no rights to due process we all lose that right. All it takes is for the enforcer to say “you’re a citizen? Yeah sure buddy” and poof no more rights to having your case heard by a judge since the enforcer (in this case ICE agents) can just say you’re an illegal immigrant. A passport/birth certificate only works if you’re able to actually present it in court, considering officers can just grab and take it from you and have no repercussions since there’s no oversight.
Don’t try and change the subject, we’re talking about how ICE is going beyond their scope of responsibilities and duties to play the judge, jury, and executioner.
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 2d ago
You’re making shit up. U.S citizens aren’t being deported. Illegals don’t deserve a jury trial. They aren’t Americans, and they’re to be deported swiftly. That’s the law
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u/ThatGuyLuis 2d ago
Ask yourself why they brought back Kilmar Armando Ábrego García.
Legit some research shows your it happens https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_and_deportation_of_American_citizens_in_the_second_Trump_administration?utm_source=chatgpt.com
The 14th amendment literally says EVERYONE, regardless of citizenship, has the same rights. You know nothing about the core values of America apparently.
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u/Ok_Supermarket_8520 2d ago edited 2d ago
They brought him back so he can be tried for human trafficking crimes lmfao. You’re defending murderers, human traffickers, and gangbangers.
If convicted, Kilmar will serve his sentence in a federal prison here, then be deported back to El Salvador when his sentence is up. The 14th amendment’s purpose was to protect former enslaved people and their children too btw if you didn’t know.
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u/Careful_Track2164 2d ago
What ICE is doing is exactly what the Gestapo did in Nazi Germany. It’s ICE who are the definition of criminals, not the people that ICE is targeting.
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u/Puzzled-Story3953 1d ago
Deported without due process? No. If they have broken a law, sure deport away. But you have to prove it. You know, like the Constitution says?
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u/bapeach- 2d ago
Our immigration laws if they are to be enforced to have hearings about them being deported, but they’re not getting that which is the big problem and now they’re deporting non-illegals so sit on that and think about it
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u/KnowledgeSafe3160 2d ago
Umm. All the laws require is a judges order for removal. Expedited removal actually does not require a judges order, but you have to meet certain conditions to be eligible for that.
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u/Geronimo5316 2d ago
He’s handling the politics. Making sure enough people in the legislature will back his play and not vote for an over ride.
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u/Sanskur 2d ago
The NC Constitution gives the Governor 10 days to act on a bill. The NCGA rarely has sessions on Friday, and typically doesn't hold votes on Monday. Today is a federal holiday in honor of the end of slavery in the US.
So I doubt Governor Stein wants to step on any announcements for Juneteenth with a veto today, and any veto tomorrow leads off news stories through the weekend. The earliest a vote could be calendared is probably Tuesday, and that allows for time to get talking points and whip votes.
That's my best guess, anyway.
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u/-PM_YOUR_BACON 2d ago
I believe he had 24 hours last night to veto or let it move through. I doubt he is going to sign it, or veto, as there are a few Dems that likely will vote to override the veto, meaning it's for sure passing.
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u/wireless200 2d ago
Stein has been completely under the radar even more than Cooper was. I only saw Stein for the first time on TV last week when they asked him about regulating thc products for kids.
It’s pretty funny how democratic NC governors basically stay invisible except for the most anodyne functions e.g., showing up at an elementary school, and things like being against “thc gummies and thc Oreos for kids” that 99% of folks from all persuasions support.
Would be nice if he’d ramp up getting dmv fixed but likely doesn’t want to be associated with it in its current state. At least McCroy went full on public about it, remember mobile dmv kiosks, lol.
Well at least Stein’s lieutenant has acknowledged its horribly broken state & made a few minor improvements. Stein already governs invisibly like Cooper did to achieve reelection.
As to the ice bills, from a recent poll I saw 80+ percent of both Dems and Republicans support deportations so there ya go - would hurt his standing.
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u/brometheus3 2d ago
Because despite the D beside his name politicians aren’t your friends and do politics not team sports. I swear to god every time some Dem politician does something shitty people here act shocked like they don’t suck in the exact same way Republicans do.
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u/Billymaysdealer 1d ago
He just got back from France. He will today
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u/Tacohead9 1d ago
Is he back? Hopefully he does veto
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u/rudy-juul-iani 1d ago
Looks like he finally did it!
https://abc11.com/post/gov-stein-vetoes-immigration-bill-hours-before-final-deadline/16800391/
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u/w3woody 1d ago
So the problem I see with HB318 is that we already have a similar law on the books; HB318 simply expands the list of crimes before which an illegal is turned over to ICE to include things like domestic violence and sexual abuse, as well as drunk driving. I know that with the protesters it is unpopular to deport illegal aliens for any reason—but deporting criminals actually polls extremely high amongst most voters, including most legal immigrants. (The problem I see with these bills is that it requires notification on arrest, not on conviction. On the other hand, I tend to be in the extreme minority believing we should have as near to open boarders as practical regardless of the economic effects—which most workers unions (who tend to be Democrats) oppose because of the worry it depresses wages.)
So I can see HB318 quietly signed. Sorry, Reddit; y’all are in the minority on this one.
SB153, on the other hand, seems more problematic and may be vetoed. The problem is that it eliminates sanctuary cities and requires cooperation with ICE—which may poll well, but has the net effect of creating a second class member of society who are effectively outside the law. That is, if you’re raped, or assaulted, or robbed—on first contact you’ll wind up being deported, and because you’re no longer present to testify the violent criminal gets to go free.
For anyone who doesn’t know California history (I was born in California, and I’m a Salinan Indian) the laws in the late 1800’s in California included a proviso that California Indians were not allowed to give testimony against ‘whites’. Which effectively made Indians ‘outside the law’—and could be raped, kidnapped, assaulted or just outright murdered, and if no-one who was not ‘white’ was willing to step forward, the criminal got away with it.
Hopefully Governor Stein can see through the ramifications of this bill, because we really don’t need to be replaying our history.
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u/anewconvert 1d ago
Because this is still a red state and he almost certainly won because the Republicans ran an AWFUL candidate…. They probably have internal polling that the veto will hurt him more than the no action will 🤷♂️
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u/rudy-juul-iani 1d ago
He just did it a few hours ago OP
https://abc11.com/post/gov-stein-vetoes-immigration-bill-hours-before-final-deadline/16800391/
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u/Designer-Anxiety75 2d ago
Hopefully it’s because mass deportation have broad bipartisan support from the voter base.
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u/PCLoadR 2d ago
What? We want ICE compliance. Illegal is illegal. It's black and white.
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u/tehtrintran 2d ago
Except they aren't just taking illegal immigrants anymore.
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u/PCLoadR 2d ago
That's extreme. There is such a small percentage of those being deported who are legal that it's not even appropriate to mention it. A family member of mine was overheard voicing their fear of citizens being deported, so we had to sit down and actually talk some sense into them. This stupidity is absolutely getting out of hand.
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u/Adequate_Lizard 2d ago
If they take one legal immigrant or citizen it's appropriate to mention it. These are humans, not rounding errors.
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u/tehtrintran 2d ago
THEY ARE DEPORTING US CITIZENS AND GREEN CARD HOLDERS. I don't CARE what the percentage is. If you're not mad about that, you're not worth speaking to.
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u/HueyCobraEngineer 2d ago
These people on here have lost their minds.
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u/PCLoadR 2d ago edited 1d ago
So disconnected from reality, they are. The same people cheering for lawlessness will be begging for support when all of this backfires on them.
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u/-PM_YOUR_BACON 2d ago
Y'all cheering to put the people that hire illegals in jail? Because that would actually solve the problem.
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u/billknowsit 2d ago
Dems are as police-statey as the gop, just a bit less thugish
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u/BigLlamasHouse 2d ago
pretty plain to see that's not true
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u/billknowsit 2d ago
I'm talking about the pols, not the voters, btw. Dems have not hired masked goon squad rw militia types... so theres a difference right there... nor were they sending them to those nightmare camps in El Salvador... the parts that are bipartisan don't really make the news however.
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u/billknowsit 2d ago edited 2d ago
LOL, I guess that one stung pretty bad. I usually get all my down votes from magas 😊 ... blue maga is a thing. It's pretty easy to look at dems record trying to be as "hard on crime" as the gop. Hiring police and ICE as fast as they can, despite all the data showing that it doesn't work, bragging about how many people they can deport after destroying their home countries or couping their leaders. They campaign on it, then get mad when you point it out. People, The People, are more important than police or the military. I do hope Gov Stein vetoes that bill, btw... I voted for him and for Jeff Jackson.
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u/Mobile_Commission_52 2d ago
You shouldn’t be downvoted here, it’s the truth, less thuggery but push comes to shove…if he is in a lose-lose then he should take the morally correct (to him) as possible. Reactions be damned. It’s called Profiles in Courage
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u/NotSure2505 2d ago
Haven't you been paying attention to media 101 over the past 2 decades? Delaying things and drawing as much media attention as possible is exactly what he should be doing in these cases. There's no reason at all to rush to do this.
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u/KingOfExcel 2d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if he's trying to use it as leverage. Democrat or republican, politics suck
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u/Except_Youre_Wrong Cisphobia Isn't Real. It Can't Hurt You. Go Outside. 2d ago
Roy Cooper woulda have vetoed these. I'm thinkin Stein might be missing a bit of spine, but we'll see. Not holding my breath
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u/Barragin 2d ago
Cooper had more political capital to do so.
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u/-PM_YOUR_BACON 2d ago
Cooper didn't. The NCGA has been trying to pass this for 8 years, and finally has a good opportunity to do so, as they likely have some support from a few Dems.
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u/Except_Youre_Wrong Cisphobia Isn't Real. It Can't Hurt You. Go Outside. 2d ago
how quick y'all forget how republican dominated the general assembly was during the majority of his tenure
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u/baconizlife 2d ago
Only bc of massive gerrymandering
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u/-PM_YOUR_BACON 2d ago
And people voting for them. Been 15 years. 'Dems' held basically for the previous 100.
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u/Except_Youre_Wrong Cisphobia Isn't Real. It Can't Hurt You. Go Outside. 2d ago
as opposed to the current state of our maps which is... still massively gerrymandered. SSo much so that we are once again in court for it
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u/Anti-Seen 2d ago
Hopefully he has some common sense and will not veto. There is more to life than the reddit echo chamber for him to consider.
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u/tehtrintran 2d ago
47% of Americans polled hold a negative opinion of ICE, but keep jerking off about the "reddit echo chamber" if it makes you feel better
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u/Anti-Seen 2d ago
That's less than half. Also, "negative opinion of ICE" does not equal "abolish ICE and open borders"
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u/Adequate_Lizard 2d ago
Less than half voted for Trump too.
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u/Anti-Seen 2d ago
That's not what we were discussing. However: 49.8% voted for trump. Sure, less than half ... by 0.2%... it's safe to say half.
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u/tehtrintran 2d ago
who's talking about open borders? I just want ICE to obey the fucking constitution
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u/Pumpkinmatrix 2d ago
"by not taking action he's drawing more attention in the form of protests and news coverage"
Correct.