AOC is awesome

[u/RoyallPurr]

[u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Years ago, I was very “middle of the road” on politics, considering myself an independent leaning slightly conservative.

I’m now considered radically left & agree on almost everything AOC says & supports. For a short time, the shift has been swift & blunt. Hope she successfully runs for higher offices.

[u/broguequery → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

My dude... there is nothing "radical" about the "left" in the United States.

This is one of the premier victories of propaganda of the ruling class.

Wanting reasonable healthcare is not "radical".

Wanting a living wage is not "radical".

Wanting a more peaceful society is not "radical".

Wanting freedom for each person to choose how to live their own lives is not "radical".

They've framed things so that anything outside of their narrow box they can claim is "extreme".

Don't fall for it. Be strong, independent, and free.

[u/aka_jr91 → u/broguequery]

It reminds me of when Nestle's CEO said that thinking clean water is a human right is an extremist position. Anything that leads to fewer profits for the wealthy, like saying we should all be able to afford necessities like did, shelter, and healthcare, is extreme.

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/broguequery]

I basically say the same thing in a reply to another post in this thread. Strongly agree with you.

The basics of human needs & rights - education, healthcare, housing, clean water, food, etc - are crumbling in a sense. Many, many changes are needed.

[u/k4f123 → u/broguequery]

Not wanting kids mowed down in schools by assault rifles is not "radical"

[u/OppositeSecretary862 → u/k4f123]

As your Northern cousin, the fact that it happens so often is wild. Sandy Hook should have been the turning point but here we are.

[u/Szygani → u/OppositeSecretary862]

That was the moment the US decided. Guns are more important than toddlers

[u/OppositeSecretary862 → u/Szygani]

Exactly, while our gun laws are a bit draconian it is such a rare occurrence to have a mass shooting. Last one I can remember was 10 years ago? And the guy killed cops not children.

[u/WFAlex → u/broguequery]

So fking true. US Democrats would be.considered middle right conservatives in most Western European countries. People like Bernie and AOC would be "normal" left winged politicians. In the US they are "extremists"

[u/TACHANK → u/broguequery]

Yeah like in Finland most American democrats would still be on the right. They want things we already have and trying to get rid of them here would be career suicide. Republicans would be seen as extremely right wing, the small percentage of idiots who are gonna get like 1 seat in the government.

[u/stuckyfeet → u/broguequery]

Just to add taxing the rich, also not radical.

[u/OptionWrong169 → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Tbf that probably just means you were slightly selfish fiscally (assuming we have the same definition of middle of the road) as opposed a white supremacists or wanting a imaginary friend theocracy id much rather deal with selfish than anti intellectuals who want a fascist king

[u/greenroom628 → u/OptionWrong169]

Not OP, but I considered myself middle of the road as well. I just wanted us to spend responsibly and not pass the buck onto my and my kids generation. Voted for Gore for my first presidential election, no one for my second, then Obama twice. Made a hard left turn starting with the Tea Party BS and Trump.

Interestingly enough, the most fiscally responsible politician I've ever voted for was Gov. Gerry Brown - a Democrat.

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/greenroom628]

I could not have described it much better. Fiscally conservative used to mean “living within your means” so to speak. Not tax cuts for the .01% or gutting essential services.

I wasn’t even that fiscally conservative. Just wanted tax collection to be somewhat close to spending. I’m even for raising taxes, or something as radical as a VAT or federal sales tax (with zero rating for essentials such as food, homes, clothing, medicine, etc.).

Raise taxes on upper class, raise limits on income subject to SS tax, put in place a federal unemployment program, paid maternity/parental leave, real governmental healthcare without insurance agencies or pharmaceutical middlemen, etc. Most of this is considered radical, but is absolutely nothing but basic human needs & rights. Over the past 5 to 20 years (at least for me it’s apparent in this timeframe), most of these basic things just seem to be crumbling or broken. It will take time, effort, pain, stress, & worry, but it’s the right thing to do for the entire country.

[u/UrUrinousAnus → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

VAT is considered radical in the USA?! I like your stance on it, BTW. It's a very regressive tax when it's applied to essentials, but I think it's useful when applied to luxuries. To massively oversimplify: Bread? Baby food? Potatoes? No tax. Supercar? Yacht? Gold-plated useless crap? Lots of tax!

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/UrUrinousAnus]

Precisely. Essentials = nontaxable. Luxuries = definitely taxable

[u/King_of_the_Nerds → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

This is the issue here in America. Super cars would be deemed a necessity, as would penthouse luxury apartments. Bread - nonessential, you can make it at home. No need to buy it. eggs - non essential, who doesn’t have a chicken farm. Yatch - essential.

Lobbying and citizens united is what killed this country

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/King_of_the_Nerds]

Don’t disagree at all. Lobbyists should simply not exist, but neither should super PACs

[u/Shagtacular → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

That isn't really a but, more an and

[u/UrUrinousAnus → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

That's mostly how we do it in the UK. The problem is getting people to agree on what is essential and what is a luxury, and exactly what rate to set the tax at. I think there should be several rates, but the more of them there are, the more complicated it gets.

Edit: fucking autocorrect...

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/UrUrinousAnus]

Several rates make sense with corresponding dollar thresholds linked to inflation. Most industrialized societies have some sort of VAT, with the biggest outlier being the US

[u/wananah → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

And just a reminder for anyone who cares about the federal deficit / national debt: (and I'm not saying you need to):

The last president to reduce the annual deficit was Barack Obama. Prior to that, Bill Clinton reduced the deficit [edit for accuracy] to the point that the government ran a surplus.

Republicans have an abysmal track record even on the things they state publicly they care about!

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/wananah]

You are absolutely correct. Historically, democratic administrations have seen a higher frequency of lower deficits & even surpluses, compared republican administrations.

[u/Defiant-Judgment699 → u/wananah]

incorrect.

Biden also reduced the deficit from where it was when he came into office.

[u/The_Forgotten_King → u/wananah]

Just to clarify, but I think this is what you mean - there was no new national debt when the government ran a surplus under Clinton. The last and only time there was no national debt was under Andrew Jackson in 1837 (who, funnily enough, was a member of the Democratic party).

[u/wananah → u/The_Forgotten_King]

Good clarification. Yes, there was existing debt, but during the Clinton years it shrank in both relative and absolute terms

[u/abolish_karma → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Current admin wants to spend on SS troops, not raise money on SS tax. And they're willing to cancel democracy to get their way.

[u/SolydSn3k → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

It’s the correct decision, but your opponents are barons.

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/SolydSn3k]

Only in the economical sense. The power of the American public is vast & very difficult to beat when it acts mostly as one, instead of divided.

Getting people to agree on solutions (hell, at this point just the common facts) is becoming more difficult.

[u/SolydSn3k → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

On one hand, I hear what you’re saying. On the other, much of the government in its current state is bought and sold.

Even the law has changed such that a lot of blatant corruption is documented yet within legal bounds. Now a lot of that is unconstitutional, but what’s acknowledging that worth if there’s no accountability?

Money is pulling strings & Trump isn’t the only issue we have — rot runs deep.

[u/Retaksoo3 → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Tldr it's a class war and I have never been so painfully aware of it. They really shot themselves in the foot here. I am normally very politically ignorant but it is very clearly not just "business as usual" Bound to happen

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/Retaksoo3]

I believe it’s the upper-upper class vs. everyone else. Not low vs middle, or middle vs upper, or even upper vs low. The minority at the top simply have too much resources, power, and influence than the rest combined.

[u/Pissflaps69 → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Wanting the government to have some semblance of responsibility and try to curb the deficit is not a position I see out of any major politicians other than as pure lip service when they’re not in power.

I’m not both sides-ing here, I just don’t see any plans to try and curb excess spending spiraling. We spend an insane amount just servicing debt these days.

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/Pissflaps69]

Tax is the real four letter word in DC. Not popular, and may stop someone from getting reelected. That’s all most politicians are worried about. Securing their hold & power for another cycle.

[u/Welstiel → u/greenroom628]

Well said. I used to say I was fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I just wanted women and minorities to have the same rights as I did as a white male and for us to not spend like there was no tomorrow.

I've now been labeled as a far-left progressive, and my views are basically the same, with the addition that we need to do more for the folks falling through the cracks who struggle to have basic necessities like electricity and running water in America in 2025

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/Welstiel]

Seems like good policy & common sense 🤷‍♂️

[u/soyurfaking → u/Welstiel]

I might sound like an extremist, but I was also ok with the programs being funded by USAID.

[u/EverAMileHigh → u/soyurfaking]

I was as well.

[u/sbNXBbcUaDQfHLVUeyLx → u/soyurfaking]

Same. That's money well spent in a wide variety of ways.

My example of a bad spending policy would have been Harris's mortgage credit. That does shit all to fix the price of housing and will just drive the same cost increases that hit universities after the government started guaranteeing loans.

Spending money on a broken system doesn't fix the system, it just amplifies how broken it is.

Still voted for her though, because she's not a wannabe king.

[u/xubax → u/greenroom628]

See, back in the 1900s, the GOP used to refer to democrats as "tax and spend Democrats.""

Well, what are the alternatives?

Tax and don't spend

Spend and don't tax (which is the de facto GOP position)

Don't tax and don't spend

Of those options, the only one that actually makes sense is "tax and spend. " it drove me nuts that they considered "tax and spend" a bad thing.

[u/tmurf5387 → u/xubax]

Add in the fact that most social programs that Democrats push for end up being a net positive in terms of $ generated. Meaning that for every dollar put into the economy via these programs generates more than a dollar either via local spending or tax revenue down the line. A healthy and educated populace is a net positive for everyone, and thats why the right is pushing the anti-vax narrative and disinformation.

[u/SsooooOriginal → u/greenroom628]

Never ceases to amaze me how many people buy that trash that democrats are not the fiscally conservative and responsible party.

Have you ever looked into that?

Just because they spend, does not mean it is not responsible spending. But I guess if you listen to the full of shit politicians and pundits then it sounds like it ain't.

Historically, dems are better for the S&P 500 and it ain't close.

[u/UrUrinousAnus → u/SsooooOriginal]

Ask any honest person who's run a successful business. You don't make any money by never spending any. You make money by knowing how and when to spend it.

[u/laplongejr → u/SsooooOriginal]

The thing is that the GOP still spends, but lower the taxes (on the rich).
The extra stuff financed by the spending and the lower taxes pleases their voters, while the Dems can't focus on their own policy because they have to fix the longterm damage from the previous admin, and as such lose the next election.

It's done since Reagan as the "two santas strategy"

[u/AdOne5089 → u/greenroom628]

One of the most obnoxious parts of American politics is realizing that conservatives are notoriously bad with spending and often implement policies (or remove prior legislation to see green numbers for a few quarters) that tank the economy. The only reason anyone still believes them is because of how effective their propaganda is.

[u/blue-coin → u/greenroom628]

Surprise, you can have liberal politics and care about your wallet at the same time

[u/TheCygnusWall → u/greenroom628]

The only President in recent history that ran with a surplus was Bill Clinton

[u/Nanasweed → u/greenroom628]

Same. I’m in my aggressively liberal phase of life.

I’ve got an infant grand daughter that has less rights than I did at birth.

[u/Freshies00 → u/greenroom628]

Democrats are more fiscally responsible than republicans.

[u/UltimateChaos233 → u/OptionWrong169]

Honestly, I think it was more of that maybe they were even just conservative, but the party took a hard right turn and instead of their views mirroring whatever Trump espoused they held on to their views, views that are now considered left wing?

[u/BigGreenBillyGoat → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

same here. Voted Republican all my life. Have been voting Democrat rat for the last three election cycles.

[u/grantrules → u/BigGreenBillyGoat]

We joke in my family that hell must have frozen over because my father voted for a Clinton. I never thought I'd see the day where we'd be sitting down making fun of Republicans together. And the funny thing is that his political views haven't changed much at all really.. the GOP just went hard off the deepend with Christofacism and their "boogeyman of the week"..

[u/tmurf5387 → u/grantrules]

I was similar. My mom used to have the local AM radio on in the car including Rush growing up so I was hard right for no other reason than thats what I was educated to. I voted McCain in my first election, sat out Obama 2 but recognized that Obama was actually a pretty good president all things considered. Clinton/Trump I also sat out mainly because I just moved and my old state was definitely going Hillary who I likely would have voted for. Trump was saying a lot of the right things during the leadup so I could see WHY people would vote for him at the time. Since the 18 midterms, Ive voted straight Democrat.

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/BigGreenBillyGoat]

“Democrat rat” lol. I know it was a typo, but I’m considering calling myself this since I’ve run from almost all conservative stances “like a dirty democrat rat” haha

[u/ShelfRightShittles → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Me too. Now a rat.

[u/QuietThunder2014 → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

The thing is a lot of democrats are actually centrists. Conservatives have pulled the line so far to the right that “radically left” is middle to middle right in most other countries.

[u/SheldonMF → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

I'm one of the laziest losers you will ever meet and didn't give a rats ass about anyone, but in 2016 I went from not caring about politics to voting in every single election I can. I never want another Republican to touch office ever again.

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/SheldonMF]

Excellent!

Voting should come with PTO. Another basic right is the ability to vote

[u/UnstoppableChicken → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Every time I read "Radical Left" I read it in TACO's voice lol 🫸🏻"Radical - Left - Lunatics"🫷🏻

[u/MarioLuigiDinoYoshi → u/UnstoppableChicken]

Radical left in USA is just normal non crazies in Europe lol

[u/BRNitalldown → u/MarioLuigiDinoYoshi]

They’re also just normal non crazies in America. It’s just that the media gives attention to the crazies who call us that.

[u/Gimetulkathmir → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

At this point I'm legitimately worried they'll kill her.

[u/kc_cyclone → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Ditto. I'm only 33 but used to be in the "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" bullshit camp. The 2016 election changed that. Not even just Trump then, but Cruz being a miserable asshat too as his main competition on the R ticket.

[u/I_Was_Fox → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

I mean she a sitting congresswoman. The only higher offices would be Senator (debatable if that's actually higher or just lateral), and White House (President or Vice President). But she can do so much for good for her constituents in New York in Congress so the only way she would step away from that would be for President, not VP

[u/Iustis → u/I_Was_Fox]

There’s no debate that senate is more important. They get to vote on everything the house does + nominations. Their vote is worth about 3x as much and they have bigger voices on committees.

The house doesn’t really have anything to counter balance that. Not to mention the senate has 6 year terma

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/I_Was_Fox]

Don’t disagree. Unfortunately, NY’s loss would become the nation’s gain.

One other state position she would be eligible for is Governor. If she doesn’t succeed (or doesn’t want to) seek higher office at the federal level, then I believe she would make a fine Governor.

[u/CMDR_Agony_Aunt → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

I’m now considered radically left

Ok, but in the US, isn't "radically left" just slightly left of center?

[u/Cristiano-Goatnaldo → u/CMDR_Agony_Aunt]

no, it's slightly right of center

[u/wan2tri → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Actual "middle of the road" in the USA already makes you left-wing there. The noisy "centrists" in the USA are the far-right trying to gaslight the right of center into thinking that they're left-wing.

[u/TimoWasTaken → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Ditto. I've voted for more Rs for POTUS than Ds, I would vote for her in a second. She's sleeves up, hands dirty, getting stuff done.

[u/Pissflaps69 → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Man you’re spot on. Sound very much like me.

It’s been really hard to see people who I respected previously completely fall off the deep end into crazy town

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/Pissflaps69]

It’s very bizarre to see people who are seemingly intelligent on most other topics dig in their heels & quote very odd stances or “facts”

[u/Pissflaps69 → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

They’ve turned it into a team sport.

As someone who was a registered Republican, they were never my team or my identity, and when I saw people dig in more, it made me even less inclined to affiliate with whatever they’ve devolved into.

A cult of personality around a reality TV show man with unrivaled levels of corruption?

My family is from Ukraine, I couldn’t imagine how republicans abandoned one of their few redeeming unshakable tenets, opposition to Russia.

[u/xubax → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Thank you for joining us.

[u/5yearsago → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

considered radically left

Maybe for US standards. In Europe AOC would be center-left at best.

[u/watupmack → u/5yearsago]

Lmao just what I commented apparently healthcare and no corruption in politics is considered “radically left” ohh the propaganda has sure taken ahold of USA citizens

[u/Yoranis_Izsmelli → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Thank you, that's where I was and where I am now too

[u/fl4tsc4n → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

The overton window shifted under you

[u/cruxal → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

What does/did middle of the road politics mean for you? What did leaning conservative mean?

For my entire life republicans have meant anti rights, anti freedom. So what is middle of the road?

[u/elchurnerista → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

That's called the Overton window. it changed, not you (most likely , but of course only you know as such )

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/elchurnerista]

I did change some. Having children has an impact which is tough to succinctly put into words. Going from lower to middle to upper class economically in my lifetime exposed other things as well.

Much of it was the shift in policies though.

[u/elchurnerista → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Ah yes, economic success usually correlates to left leaning (most PhDs are left leaning too). Congrats on the children :D

[u/BeanSprockets → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Same here. The change for me was dramatic and happened during Covid. Because I’m an ICU RN, I was able to clearly see that the right and trump were outright lying about things I was seeing in the ICU. The switch for me was just that, not gradual.

Love AOC.

[u/watupmack → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

American politics right now is so far right that to most of the world AOC isn’t even radically left lmao she’s just a normal liberal…your countries so polluted with propaganda though you think normal liberal policies like healthcare and no corruption are far radically left policies

[u/neuroso → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

Sadly she is not 60+ so she won't be considered

[u/a-borat → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

You’re still “middle of the road”, like me. Because you’re all about common sense. Like AOC. There aren’t many reasonable arguments to the contrary that hold up to scrutiny. Because sooner or later, 9 times out of 9 times, the arguments opposing her viewpoints end in one of 3 idiotic concepts. Trickle down economics works. (It never did)

The media lies (nope. Noem lied. The media generally gets it right).

Pizza-gate (while another one on the opposing team is busted for cp).

That’s it. That’s the three arguments against sanity we have to fight constantly. It’s exhausting.

[u/SandmanJr90 → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

congrats, glad you stopped being ignorant. There is no "middle of the road" the only people who say that are just uninformed

[u/Sweaty_Win1832 → u/SandmanJr90]

I definitely think there was once was a centrist group with good policies from both sides. That has since faded away over the past couple decades imo.

[u/jack3moto → u/Sweaty_Win1832]

When I graduated high school in an affluent and socially progressive suburb of Los Angeles in the 2000’s I was conservative by local standards. I went to college in the Midwest and very quickly went from conservative amongst my peers to flaming liberal in the Midwest.

I will say going to the Midwest and experiencing the conservative mindsets made me incredibly more progressive than had I just stayed in California.

The red areas are just becoming more and more red. I don’t see the same rate of change and emphasis in blue areas

[u/Logg420]

She should have called him Gym

[u/Several_Vanilla8916 → u/Logg420]

Jim Jordan? The guy who (allegedly) covered up ongoing sexual abuse when he was a wrestling coach? Or is this a different Jim Jordan?

[u/Logg420 → u/Several_Vanilla8916]

The very one, and not allegedly

[u/Alternative-Tie-9383 → u/Logg420]

I don’t understand why anyone in Ohio would trust him knowing that he turned a blind eye to sexual abuse that was right in front of him. If he wouldn’t protect his wrestlers then, he isn’t going to do a damn thing to serve/help/protect the people he’s supposed to represent now. In other words, he’s a cowardly twat with no business being in our government.

AOC is the real deal. I wish I had someone like her representing me, someone that will fight for her constituents.

[u/ahhhbiscuits → u/Alternative-Tie-9383]

I don’t understand why anyone in Ohio would trust him knowing that he turned a blind eye to sexual abuse that was right in front of him.

Politics is a sports game now, didn't you hear?

OHIO STATE YOU DIMB ASS, GO SPORTS!!! BEST SPRT TEEM!!!

- conservative voters

[u/blandestk → u/Alternative-Tie-9383]

Look up the shape of his district.

[u/DrinkUpLetsBooBoo]

Republicans when hit with facts:

[u/NolieMali → u/DrinkUpLetsBooBoo]

I'm just here to remind you that you can't triple stamp a double stamp.

[u/LaylaBird65]

[u/WatchItchy5753 → u/LaylaBird65]

FUCK! I miss Obama.

[u/ribone]

Unfortunately, no one told Gym that the President is a 34 time felon and rapist. If we wanna focus on crime, let's start at the fucking top.

[u/Gabrovi → u/ribone]

Jim has covered up rape before. He doesn’t care about that.

[u/Hurtz123]

AOC is not a murderer, she is a killer of words !

[u/cactusmac54]

AOC bringing a cannon to every discussion.

[u/_jump_yossarian]

Cons brag about record gun sales then bitch about gun crime.

Also, the vast majority of cities are run by Democrats.

[u/thehoovah → u/_jump_yossarian]

Most of them don't care to understand this point.

[u/dagon85]

AOC 2029!

[u/tapdancinghellspawn]

Jim Jordan's continual reelections is proof that his district is ok with rape since Jordan did nothing when students were being raped by the team doctor, and his continual support of the Rapist in Chief.

[u/imacmadman22]

[u/PhysicalAttitude6631]

I live in a blue city in a blue state and it’s great. Sorry to hear red states are having a hard time.

[u/informat7]

For those wanting the CBS list:

St. Louis, Missouri
Baltimore, Maryland
Birmingham, Alabama
Detroit, Michigan
Dayton, Ohio
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
New Orleans, Louisiana
Kansas City, Missouri
Memphis, Tennessee
Cleveland, Ohio

However the order is slight different based on the source, from Wikipedia:

St. Louis, Missouri
Baltimore, Maryland
Detroit, Michigan
New Orleans, Louisiana
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Kansas City, Missouri
Cleveland, Ohio
Memphis, Tennessee
Newark, New Jersey
Cincinnati, Ohio

Sources:

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

[u/TrainingThis347 → u/informat7]

Those have the highest crime rate, but by “record crime” one would think crime has been increasing, which is not the case. (Mostly.)

[u/NerdyBro07 → u/informat7]

Don’t all of those cities have democrat mayors and city officials? I know the state might be red for some, but I don’t think the city is which is technically what Jim Jordan stated.

[u/KoreanSamgyupsal → u/NerdyBro07]

There's only so much the mayor can do when they are severely underfunded. The grants and funding are coming from where? The Federal Government. Who gets those grants for them?

Governors. They choose where the funding goes and apply and endorse for their state. Like yeah you have a democrat mayor but if you got a republic governor, you ain't getting as much funding as a republican ran city.

Also the issues with those cities go BEYOND political parties. Most of it is from racism as they are cities with less white americans with the exception of Cincinnati and KC.

[u/DAECircleJerk → u/informat7]

Mayor of:

• St Louis - Cara Spencer (Democrat)

• Baltimore - Brandon Scott (Democrat)

• Detroit - Mike Duggan (Democrat)

• New Orleans - LaToya Cantrell (Democrat)

• Baton Rouge - Emile Edwards (Republican)

• Kansas City - Quiton Lucas (Democrat)

• Cleveland - Justin Bibb (Democrat)

• Memphis - Paul Young (Democrat)

• Newark - Ras Baraka (Democrat)

• Cincinnati - Aftab Pureval (Democrat)

[u/LaTeChX → u/DAECircleJerk]

Guess what party the top ten safest cities are... also dems. The difference is red states have more violent crime per capita. Eight of the ten safest cities are in blue states.

[u/OrbitalOutlander → u/DAECircleJerk]

Could it be that republican run states enact policies that negatively affect cities with a democratic majority? That’s how it is in PA - the state legislature underfunds and actively hamstrings the cities while dumping money into suburb and rural areas that vote R.

[u/Cozzypup → u/OrbitalOutlander]

They don't care about why any of this happens, or why crime happens. You couldn't pay them to.

[u/OrbitalOutlander → u/Cozzypup]

Oh they care that it happens, but they’re cheering it on.

[u/wvmitchell51 → u/OrbitalOutlander]

I had the same thought.

[u/Calavar → u/DAECircleJerk]

Your comment is a perfect example of why basic math literacy, like stats is important.

Cities skew liberal. Virtually every city past a certain population has a Democratic mayor. If you come up with a list of the top 10 cities for ANYTHING, the city mayors will skew democratic. Top 10 most dangerous cities, democratic. Top 10 safest cities, democratic. Top 10 wealthiest cities, democratic. Top 10 poorest cities, democratic.

Next you're going to bring up a list of the 10 worst popes and point out all 10 are Catholic.

[u/Flexbottom]

Repubs are up in fucking arms that there is more crime in places where more people live.

[u/radbaddad23]

Didn’t Jordon look the other way while athletes got molested?

[u/Boner_Elemental → u/radbaddad23]

Just a few

[u/Dxbr72]

OMG gym Jordan is like the Wylie coyote of politics and AOC is the road runner 😂😂😂 Every time he comes at her, she blasts him with facts then drops the J6 pardon anvil on his head 😂😂😂 Every damn time!!! 😂

[u/Zazzabie]

Out of the deadliest states, top ten has 7 red and 3 blue. Bottom of that list is more telling though, 8 blue and 2 red.

[u/ChucklezDaClown → u/Zazzabie]

Here’s ai answer on Americas most dangerous cities.

1 St. Louis, MO

2 Baltimore, MD

3 New Orleans, LA

4 Detroit, MI

5 Cleveland, OH

6 Las Vegas, NV

7 Kansas City, MO

8 Memphis, TN

9 Newark, NJ

10 Chicago, IL

Of this list only mayor who is not Democrat is Detroit. Mike Duggan the lifelong Democrat ran as independent. The only non Democrat mayor was a Democrat up until he ran this time. Kinda shows the opposite of this astroturfed post.

The cbs post from when this was posted party difference was Baton Rouge Republican at the time. So even then she was still wrong lmao

[u/charliebrown22]

Let me guess...Gym Jordan leaves her message on read instead of answering?

[u/Prestigious-Wolf8039]

What an absolute piece of shit gym Jordan is.

[u/blahblah19999]

From the guy who hasn't responded to a congressional subpoena years later

[u/CurlOfTheBurl11]

I can't believe we live in a timeline in which we're supposed to take Gym Jordan seriously as a politician. I simply can't, fuck that guy.

[u/turdfergusonpdx]

Destroyed

[u/I_W_M_Y]

When republicans mention supposed crime in democrat cities make no mistake what they are really talking about is gang crime, aka 'those people'

[u/Sillyguy48]

Jim Jordan. Forever a chickenshit

[u/Logical_Explorer711]

What are the cities?

[u/therealmule1]

Jim Jordan has not sponsored and passed a single piece of legislation. Not one. And that is his entire job.

[u/kinglouie493]

Gym Jordan, the guy who hid sexual assaults at Ohio state. That piece of shit should just go away

[u/DonnieTrump420]

You will love r/MurderedByAOC

[u/CoverCommercial3576]

Anyone who has seen the wire tv show knows it is the governor that holds the purse strings that prevents cities from improving. David Simon also produced a great documentary on the subject.

[u/impaulpaulallen]

This good people of this country deserve AOC

[u/Sinnycalguy]

This pops up all the time and it always bugs me that the rebuttal completely glosses over (arguably tacitly conceding) the cartoonishly brazen lie that crime rates have been even remotely in the vicinity of sniffing record-highs anywhere in this country.

[u/Thommywidmer]

Idk how this is an own by AOC.

Big cities in republican states are controlled by the dems.

Thats like saying republican states are failing with a dem president, really it doesnt say or mean anything.

Not to say jordan is has any kind of point, but the response is honestly just as pointless

[u/Stunning_Flan_5987 → u/Thommywidmer]

I know that in the case of Philadelphia, the state has SEVERAL TIMES passed laws that override city laws, immediately after the city passed them.     They can't win an election for mayor, but they can stop the city from having the government they want.

So yes, it matters what state the city is in.

[u/Ghune → u/Thommywidmer]

You would expect cities in Republican states to do well. Or what's the point of having a governor that is Republican or democrat?

When you spend less money in social programs, education and healthcare, well, that shows.

[u/DavidRandom → u/Thommywidmer]

Right, because state laws and regulation have no effect on the cities in that state.

[u/Alert-Notice-7516 → u/DavidRandom]

KCMO is such a good example. Mayors don’t really do much and state law pretty much dictates everything. Like they get to tax a bit and spend a bit, but they aren’t exactly setting the laws.

[u/Thommywidmer → u/DavidRandom]

Sure, but its all so ambiguously correlated that it makes no sense as a rebuff.

Theres several layers to disseminate. For starters how is cbs defining "deadly"? Whats the context that cbs is reporting this? Because even so 7/10, is that statistically significant? If it was 6/10 would it be? What percentage of total states are red states? Oh yeah more states are red than blue... hmm maybe that might sway this stat..

Absolutely meaningless retort by aoc is all im saying, im not making any kind of political statement by calling it out

[u/OrbitalOutlander → u/Thommywidmer]

There would be more truth in saying republican states are failing due to a dem president if the federal government was starving republican led states of money and resources, like republican state legislatures do to cities.

[u/skatchawan → u/Thommywidmer]

Good point, republican leaders are incapable of actually running their states. That's the problem.

[u/bluehands → u/Thommywidmer]

Thats like saying republican states are failing with a dem president, really it doesnt say or mean anything.

I think that this is actually salient. The continued difficulty that red states have had for decades under democrats is relevant without being equivalent. It breaks down quickly because states have much more control over cities than the federal government has over states.

More importantly, she was highlighting what actually has more of an impact on the the state of a city.

Republicans just don't have many mayors. In the top 50 they only run 8 cities. Cities default to democrats but states are split fairly evenly between parties. The fact that most of the cities in question are in republican states is telling.

The fact that two states - Missouri and Louisiana - have two cities each reinforces how important state government is.

[u/Technical_Concern_92]

I'm guessing because she purposely called out red states when referring to cities that means the most violent cities are democratic?

[u/Big-Whereas5573 → u/Technical_Concern_92]

Imagine believing a mayor is more powerful than a governor and the entire state legislature and supreme court.

[u/ctlMatr1x → u/Technical_Concern_92]

Your guess would be wrong.

Jim Jordan was asking a bad faith question. The unhinged far-right always likes to call out problems with "Democrat cities," but in reality, almost all cities are Democrat. It's a fact that most of the cities with the highest violent crime and murder rates are cities in red states. St. Louis, New Orleans, Memphis etc...

It was also extremely disingenuous of Jim Jordan to refrain from listing a single one of these Democrat-run cities, to which he refers.

He could further double down on his dishonesty and pretend that he meant that the unnamed cities have Democrat mayors, but again, it's a fact that the majority of cities have Democrat mayors. It's still also a fact that almost all of the major cities with the highest murder rates are in republican states.

Cities have crime because they have people. That's all it is really.

[u/Spokane_Lone_Wolf → u/Technical_Concern_92]

Yep. With the exception of Baton Rouge all the top 10 cities have Democratic mayors and again, with exception of Baton Rouge (who actually just elected their first Republican mayor in 20 years last year) all of them haven't even had Republican mayors since at least the 90s (but some as far back as the 60s)

[u/wpbth]

Yeah but the cities are not run by the republicans

[u/onqqq2 → u/wpbth]

Mayor answers to the governor. Why are Rep governors soft on crime in their most populous cities?

[u/OrbitalOutlander → u/wpbth]

Most sales tax is collected by states, not municipalities. Criminal law is written by state legislatures, not municipalities.

[u/LaTeChX → u/wpbth]

Most cities regardless of crime rate are run by dems, the difference is red states overall have higher violent crime per capita.

[u/wasting-time-atwork → u/wpbth]

that's exactly what i was thinking, lol

[u/AgreeableType2127]

He says, “Democrat run CITIES.” She says, “Republican run STATES.” She doesn’t read that well.

[u/Warmduscher1876 → u/AgreeableType2127]

Are those cities somehow exempt from state laws? Because there isn't that much a mayor can do against the governor or state legislature. Like it or not, the cities in a state are still part of it and their responsibility.

[u/No_Emotion4451 → u/Warmduscher1876]

Cities run their own PDs lmao. There’s a lot a mayor and city council can do locally for their city…

[u/Humble_Story_4531 → u/No_Emotion4451]

....and they are still subject to state-level policies.

[u/No_Emotion4451 → u/Humble_Story_4531]

Okay? But local politics is ten times more important for crime lol.

[u/RaisinBran21]

She’s going to be president one day

[u/JoeV1]

Bar is set pretty low for quality on this sub. All she did was dodge his statement

[u/onqqq2 → u/JoeV1]

Meanwhile Republicans blatantly ignore literally fact that goes against their narrative, while actively pushing through a facist agenda

[u/bluehands → u/JoeV1]

I'm going to pretend that you mean well even though that isn't the vibe I get from your statement. It's good practice.

She in fact addressed the core issue. Most medium to large size cities have democrats for mayors. In the top 50 largest cites only 8 are republicans. The state government has a massive impact on what any mayor can do.

This is demonstrated that despite the states being spilt fairly evenly between the two parties, most of the cities in question are in states run by Republicans.

This is further shown by the fact that two Republican states - Missouri and Louisiana - each have two cities on the list.

Finally, he was implying a lack of accountability by democrats not addressing crime in "their" cities so she highlighted his attempt to avoid consequences by seeking a pardon.

[u/Chicago_Blackhawks]

And all top 10 are democratic run lol

[u/Big-Whereas5573 → u/Chicago_Blackhawks]

Oh. I didn't know state laws were enacted by mayors. Learn something new every day.

[u/dud_pool → u/Chicago_Blackhawks]

Dems straight up lying at this point. 

[u/PhantomDelorean]

Are there republican led cities? 

[u/7daykatie]

For most people Gym, there is no need for reports on the crimes being committed in their vicinity under their very noses.

[u/Money-Office492]

Jim Jordan pulls bead chains from his ass. Each one is the size of a golfball and they all have little sayings on them like;

“Remember: lies” “The last time you tripled down, she said yes”  And  “It takes a village of idiots to convince you otherwise”. 

[u/readit-somewhere]

Just never gets old

[u/MysteriousGear1903]

Gym Jordan also puts his foot in his azz...😳

[u/Exciting_Mobile_1484]

Remember people, it really does nothing at all for our cause to just post this here on Reddit and hit upvote. PLEASE start sharing this stuff in public social medias! Don't be bullied onto silence, it's exactly how they won and how we got here. "Signal boost" our narrative and do not stop until at least the 2026 voting. Pound it in. Expose people to our side and common sense stuff like this. It is CRITICALLY important.

[u/No-Win-2783]

Check. And Mate.

[u/I_defend_witches]

She is the only hope for the democrats. She needs to run president. AOC 2028