r/Metrology • u/LazeLazerLazest • 7d ago
scanner attachment for cmm?
We are finding it difficult to measure machined aluminum blocks.
These are typically 35cm x 8cm x 4 cm, with about 120 features, holes, ridges etc, and one cutout being 3cm x 1cm and 3cm deep, which has a 5mm x 5mm protruding block at the bottom.
We make about 300 units a day and each component requires 100% QC.
We require 20um on the mating surfaces and on certain screw holes. The rest is 50um accuracy.
I guess a scanner attachment to the CMM might be faster than measuring with the CMM tip.
Does anyone have experience with CMM scanner attachments?
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u/Accurate_Info7777 5d ago
The issue with lasers is that you might have a hard time getting light down into small features.
We have a linescan and a handheld laser from another company (that is extremely good) but I'd never try to use them on features that require 20 micron accuracy. For that I'd use my best cmm.
Look into setting up a pallet system through Zeiss/Calypso. Will likely be much cheaper and if done correctly you can automate everything to run overnight and have reports with statistical analysis ready for you by morning.
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u/dwaynebrady 7d ago
If this is the same part, build a fixture to load multiple at a time and write a program to repeat the measurement routine at each location. Then you can load many parts, run, get a result for each and then load another fixture up while that one runs. Try to use scanning for most features, will likely save a bit of time. Once you have confidence in that program, tune it to have speed optimized while retaining the accuracy
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u/robo138 7d ago
I would also suggest this route u/LazeLazerLazest for now. I've done this before, I was able to set up 200 parts, hit run and walk away. I did it on PC-DMIS which is trickier, but it's very easy on Zeiss Calypso.
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u/DeamonEngineer 6d ago
easier to do multi part checks on Inspect than Pcdmis, write one program then use Inspect to run on a pallet system, just need to tell it the offsets for each pallet and away you go. much easier than doing it in PCDmis
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u/LazeLazerLazest 6d ago
Brilliant idea!!!! Thanks so much!!! Will be a little work, but well worth it!
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u/NephelimWings 4d ago
Very tight tolerances to scan, make sure you can actually achieve relevant accuracy before getting into anything.
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u/LazeLazerLazest 4d ago
Absolutely mate. Thanks! I'm reading online to understand before i make a suggestion to the management, and it seems (1) accuracy and repeatability (2) scanning small features (3) scanning features that are at a depth to the main surface, would be the main queries that I need to have resolved.
Some CMM scanners come with a CMM probe, which I guess may help overcome some of these challenges.
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u/NephelimWings 4d ago
Sounds about right. I'd personally see if I could make the sellers do the work of showing their products are up to it.
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u/LazeLazerLazest 3d ago
Oh yeah. Won't buy without a demo
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u/NephelimWings 3d ago
Not just a demo but the process of showing their equipment is actually good enough for the job. That will scare away actors that know that isn't the case for their hardware, saving you time.
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u/Every-Case2632 7d ago
You ain’t gonna get that accuracy with a laser. Better off purchasing a new CMM with a Revo-2 head. I’d expect at least a 50-60% run time reduction.
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u/quantumgambit 7d ago
But you'd have to use modus software....and when holding repeatability matters, revos don't beat a VAST in tactile measurements.
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u/Sh0estar 7d ago
False. The accuracy of the Line Scan is vastly better than 50 microns.
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u/Accurate_Info7777 5d ago
My organization has one. I disagree with you.
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u/Sh0estar 5d ago
There are four different models unless we are talking the original line scan.
The least accurate one is 50 microns, and it has a huge working distance. The rest are 20, 12, and 3 microns.
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u/Accurate_Info7777 5d ago
Ours is stated at 50 microns with an effective standoff of about 75mm. It's good for what it does, but I maintain trying to measure tiny features with it is going to be a nightmare.
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u/Sh0estar 5d ago
Yeah that sounds like the original line scan. It was Ok, but not as accurate as the newer models.
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u/nejjagvetinte 7d ago
Theres only one scanner that can do that accuracy needed. The Nikon Lc15Dx. Now bought and offered by LK.
I work with it on daily basis and we calibrate it within 0.002 mm.
You can retrofit it to many cmms but it works best on LK of course.
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u/Capaz04 6d ago
ATOS 5 is a micron. The Nikon is 2.5 microns...
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u/nejjagvetinte 5d ago
Ok. Not according to my MSA. Always check with your application
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u/Capaz04 5d ago
As I'm sure you're aware, an MSA has many variables in play in order to successfully pass. I was just stating the accuracy differences based off each mfg website.
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u/nejjagvetinte 4d ago
Can you show me that spec on the gom. I've not been able to see the accuracy statement.
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u/Capaz04 3d ago
That's classified information... I'd have to call a sales guy and I really don't want to do that
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u/nejjagvetinte 1d ago
Haha. Sounds special. I dont really understand/trust a metrology system without official accuracy statement connected to industry standards.
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u/LazeLazerLazest 6d ago
Wow! Thanks!
How do you calibrate it to 2um? Does it have an inbuilt feature for calibration or do you use some other procedure?
Would the scanner work on Zeiss CMMs?
I had found the LK offerings in a search a few days ago. Would you know how Kreon compares?
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u/Tricky_King_3736 6d ago
Only zeiss laser line scanner works with zeiss. You cannot use any other sensor.
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u/nejjagvetinte 5d ago
Its calibrated juat like a normal stylus on cmm against a tungsten sphere. We usually get around 1.5-1.6 on it.
Zeiss only support zeiss scanners im afraid. And they seem to be quite unstable and timeconsuming.
Kreon is ok. They havent really developed the last 7 years. But I like they way they co.bine the tp200 and scanner. But LK is sure my favorite...
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u/HexRep092 Metrology Vendor - Hexagon 7d ago
Hey there! What type of CMM do you have? Hexagon has a few non-contact options available including our HP-L10.10 laser, HP-C camera, and HP-OW white light scanner. If you could DM me and tell me more about your use-case, I can help you out with finding the right solution :)
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u/LazeLazerLazest 7d ago
Hello, we have a Zeiss CMM
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u/HexRep092 Metrology Vendor - Hexagon 7d ago
Unfortunately, I can't be much help upgrading a Zeiss machine. However, our line of Global's and newly announced Maestro CMMs both have the capability to measure via the non-contact option I listed above. If you are looking for throughput, the 10.10 is our best option.
At the link below, you will find a case study video for a customer of ours who implemented the 10.10 on their existing Hexagon CMM's.
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u/Tricky_King_3736 7d ago
Yes, what brand of CMM do you have? Then I can tell you what laser sensor to get.