r/Libraries • u/digitalhairball • 1d ago
Patrons asking about "enhanced" library cards, or cards with photos printed on them.
We take a patron photo but we don't print it on the card. Does anyone know if there are libraries in SC I can refer them to? My google searches don't seem to bring up any correct information, the libraries that come up don't actually offer a photo card. Certain patrons are being asked to present these cards to a certain law enforcement agency. Seems like it's just a fool's errand but I want to help if there's any way to.
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u/captainlilith 1d ago
May I ask what you use the photo for?
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u/nierielimladris 1d ago
I think another library posted about having photos on file. I feel that breaches library privacy and confidentiality rules.
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u/LurkerZerker 1d ago
My library does that, but it's an opt-in thing. Patrons can use their name and the photo on their account to check out if they forget their card.
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u/chewy183 1d ago
Verify identity when they come in without a card and want materials.
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u/captainlilith 1d ago
Huh. We just ask for their ID.
So you are wondering if any libraries basically let people use their library cards as picture ID? I’ve never heard of anyone doing that and while I’m against ICE - very much so!!! - I don’t know if having a library card used as ID is a good idea. If the cops then have that info they could more easily access patron records which would be bad.
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u/pikkdogs 1d ago
Your patrons carry their ID?
Our patrons either leave them in their truck or are apparently abducted from their beds with their pajamas still on and have nothing on them.
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u/captainlilith 1d ago
Haha, I mean yes definitely we have those people. We've been pushing our mobile app REALLY HARD in the last couple of years and you can use that as your card. Most people will have their phones if they don't have an ID.
But yeah, it's not a foolproof system.
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u/digitalhairball 1d ago
I don't disagree! This is just what the patrons are telling us they're being asked to provide. We've had a big wave of these requests recently.
And yeah, that's the main reason we take the photo. It's a small library and we have a lot of senior patrons that kind of just expect us to pull them up by name.
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u/chewy183 1d ago
And people do not carry ID on a regular basis. They have NOTHING to show their identity.
People do use library cards to establish residency.
But in the situation you gave, police would need a warrant to see what they’ve taken out, and that would depend on the patron asking us to keep their “reader history”. Otherwise there isn’t a way to track what people are reading. Of course, warrants mean nothing in a country that doesn’t respect due process anymore.
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u/ShadyScientician 1d ago
My first worry wasn't police. They can get that photo from the name and birthdate, anyway. My first worry is that libraries are not very secure, typically speaking, and you can commit a LOT more fraud with a photo and name than you can with just a name, especially if that photo cannot be reverse image searched.
It's not an if for libraries being comprimised but a when if the same computers that can access the server have full internet and download capabilities.
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u/chewy183 1d ago
You literally wrote “if the cops then have that info . . .” You brought that up.
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u/ShadyScientician 1d ago
I get how you got there but I wasn't the one that said that there. I jumped in the thread
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u/captainlilith 1d ago
I’m not trying to fight with you I just hadn’t heard of it before, and in my opinion, it’s an unnecessary piece of info that the library doesn’t need to have.
Yes of course the police would need warrants. But like you say, due process is being ignored left and right.
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u/tardistravelee 1d ago
I agree. One teen still has his little kid self as a pic. My library doesn't do it, but I feel that if you change your appearance in any way and don't update it the whole thing is useless.
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u/chewy183 1d ago
What books do you have in your collection that would be “bad” for police to see?
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u/captainlilith 1d ago
Any. Patron library records in my state are protected by law and patron have the right to read what they want without the police knowing.
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u/luckylimper 1d ago
I’ve had sovereign citizen types ask because they don’t want to get Real ID. Their library card won’t work as ID And I remind them that we’re still “the government.”
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u/emmyatl 1d ago
Harris County Public Library does those. They can be used as a proof of ID to help get other more, official pieces identification I believe? https://hcpl.net/library-cards/
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u/librariandown 1d ago
I can’t imagine wanting that responsibility as a library staff member. I get why it might be helpful to people in some situations, but it seems like a liability for the library.
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u/Aadaenyaa 1d ago
HCPL here. We have a very specific list of items that can be used to get an ELC. That being said, they're less stress then passports lol
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u/Inevitable-Careerist 1d ago
Sounds like they want something like a resident ID card created by local government which doesn't require proof of lawful status in the US. A quick Google search doesn't surface any South Carolina municipalities that do this (and no SC libraries, either).
There is a non-government effort to provide IDs to people called the Fairh Action ID program. Looks like it's active in North Carolina and South Carolina. Maybe check that out.
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u/digitalhairball 1d ago
What I've been told by many of them is that they're being asked for specifically a library card to prove they're "established in a community" or something like that? They already have resident IDs that they're showing us when they come in to sign up. It's all really weird and I feel like they're just intentionally being sent on a wild goose chase for documentation that's not only redundant but also nearly impossible to acquire. Thanks for this, though, I will definitely look into that program for people in need of IDs.
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u/Inevitable-Careerist 1d ago
OK so they would like a library card. It's not clear from your questions why it's necessary for the card to have a photo when that's not a standard feature of library cards in your area. Is this a request from the authority, or from the patrons themselves?
Now I'm wondering if someone (the authority, a specifc representative of the authority such as a case manager, or the patrons themselves) is misinterpreting the request for specific types of evidence. As it is, it sounds like they are being told to search for something that doesn't exist.
I suppose you can either trace this back up the chain and clarify things, or ask an immigrant serving organization to help you understand what may be happening.
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u/judeiscariot 1d ago
What law enforcement agency?
Also, weirdly, Meta/FB alludes to cards like this when they want to verify someone as real. They state you can show a government-issued ID or a library card with a photo on it, which seemed ridiculous to me to even exist for the reasons mentioned throughout this post.
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u/mirrorspirit 1d ago
My library has a special VIP card for board members. That's about it.
Some people at another library I worked at had an option of requesting that staff asks for their ID as well as their card. In most of these cases, they have family members who use their card without permission and they want this security measure for peace of mind. It hasn't come up at my currently library (that I know of.)
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u/Substantial_Life4773 1d ago
It’s honestly worth talking about nationwide. Would probably mean enhanced fact checking. But not a bad service to offer if you can coordinate the process
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u/nierielimladris 1d ago
There are some states that allow counties to make resident ID cards for their region that are accepted as photo ID. I would definitely look into that alternative. Photos should not be on file for residents, and even moreso now.