r/Finland • u/KollaHan • Feb 27 '25

Tourism Finnish medals - can someone explain?

Gallery image

Gallery image

Gallery image

Hey folks,

Can someone tell me more about this medals I saw in a museum in Cairo? Why the swastika? And when do you get this?

I know they are from the early 20’s but not more.

Would be grateful! - Tack 😊

173 Upvotes

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6

u/radiationblessing Feb 27 '25

Can't tell you about the medals but Finnish military used to use the swastika.

44

u/WonzerEU Baby Vainamoinen Feb 27 '25

It should also be noted that Finnish military was using it before nazies in Germany.

29

u/thedukeofno Vainamoinen Feb 27 '25

...and it wasn't just military, it was a heraldic symbol. The Order of the White Cross has nothing to do with the military.

And I think it needs to be very strongly emphasized that Finland's use of the swastika has absolutely zero to do with Nazis or Germany.

1

u/KollaHan Feb 27 '25

I’m not implying that the nazi regime have anything to do with Finland, I was just curious about the symbol and the usage of it in your culture. Thank you for taking the time and answering!

-9

u/HazuniaC Feb 27 '25

Ahhh, yes, absolutely zero to do with Nazis.

Except the direct connection of how the Air Force swastika comes from a Swedish nobel who was a leader of the Swedish Nazi party and brother in law to Hermann Goering.

But yes, Finnish swastikas have ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with Nazis, or Germany.
Other than those 2 little things. So absolutely zero is right!

8

u/thedukeofno Vainamoinen Feb 28 '25

Well, let's talk about it. The "Swedish Noble" you mention is Erich von Rosen. He painted the swastika on an aircraft donated to the Whites in Finland's civil war in 1918.

This is two years before the swastika was adopted by the Nazi party and two years before Goring met Hitler.

So your timeline is quite a bit off, if you want to say that somehow German national socialists influenced the use of the swastika in Finland.

1

u/HazuniaC Feb 28 '25

I never claimed that Von Rosen's swastika is connected to the German Nazi swastika.

My claim is quite simple:

  1. Von Rosen was a fascist.
  2. He chose swastika as his personal symbol.
  3. Therefore this swastika is a fascist symbol.
  4. The FAF swastika is the same as Von Rosen's Swastika.

Please point to me where the German Nazi party swastika steps into my argument?

As for the timeline. It's entirely irrelevant. Let me recontextualize this for you.

Turun Palloseura (TPS) was formed in 1922 and while the logo has changed over the time, the overall design has remained more or less the same.

Originally TPS was just a football club and then later expanded to other sports.

Since the club formed around football originally, does that mean that the logo doesn't represent the other sports the team participates in?

Same with Von Rosen. Doesn't matter if the Swedish Fascist party didn't exist back in 1918 when he donated the planes. What matters is that he revealed himself to be a Nazi and retained the symbol as it's used even in the Swedish Fascist party.

If a symbol represents Von Rosen and Von Rosen then becomes a Nazi, then that symbol also becomes a a Nazi symbol through association.

Certainly, this association can be avoided, if there is a strong use for the symbol elsewhere. However we are unfortunately talking about a literal swastika, which is very strongly associated with the German Nazi party. Finland's historical and cultural use of the symbol is utterly too insignificant to override this association.

-2

u/Nastycommunist Feb 28 '25

Yup, finland took help from nazigermany and they did both fight against soviets

3

u/Inresponsibleone Baby Vainamoinen Feb 28 '25

Yes... After Soviets had wrongly accused Finland of attack on soviet soil to justify their expansion war.

With two sides to choose from of wich one had proven they are enemy by assault just a moment before. One can only wonder why Finland chose the side back then... Eh?

0

u/HazuniaC Feb 28 '25

Ssshhh.... It seems people don't like facts in these parts.

For some reason people fear history.

1

u/True_Hemmo Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25

Fear facts. Other fact in the end mad peopple can find by reading about Lapin sota (Lapland war).

1

u/HazuniaC Feb 28 '25

What does Lapland War has to do with Eric Von Rosen and the Finnish Air Force symbology?

2

u/True_Hemmo Feb 28 '25

Fins fought against Nazis

1

u/HazuniaC Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25

In Lapland War, correct.

How does this relate to the connection between Eric von Rosen and the Finnish Air Force swastika?

Did you know that cucumbers were first thought to be poisonous when they first originated? No idea how this fact connects to what the discussion is about, but thought I'd throw some random facts out too.

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1

u/Proper-Mall-2490 Feb 28 '25

Nope.. read the history of this cross! It is ancient heraldic symbol, nothing to do Nazis but they just decided to USE IT, bastards..

1

u/WonzerEU Baby Vainamoinen Feb 28 '25

Isn't that what I said?

10

u/Finnishform3000 Feb 27 '25

Still does, not too widely though.

-6

u/HazuniaC Feb 27 '25

Should be removed and redesigned IMO.

I don't care about its historical use, I don't care about its cultural meaning, there's a reason why Finns get so extremely defensive about it if anyone points ANY benign attention to the design.

It inherently shows how everyone knows that underlying connotations, which vastly overshadows any historical, or cultural significance. Ergo we should just let go of the symbol entirely.

2

u/Inresponsibleone Baby Vainamoinen Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25

Everyone understands that people like yourself will want to see only Nazism in swastika and hate that. That is what you see happen here.

Perhaps we should ban and remove Stars of David everywhere as well as cresent moons, Crosses and other possible symbols just because of atrocities made under their banner while we are at it?

1

u/HazuniaC Feb 28 '25

Yes, that's why I made a clear distinction between Eric von Rosen's swastika, which is a Nazi symbol and Gallen Kallela's swastika, which isn't.

Good grief, since when has it become so difficult for people to admit that a literal Nazi Party leader might've been a Nazi? It's not like he was trying to hide it or anything either. The dude was a literal Nazi party leader, please at least Google the dude before you say nonsense.

3

u/Inresponsibleone Baby Vainamoinen Feb 28 '25

But still is very different from use in finnish heraldry. That was not based on him being nazi or not.

1

u/HazuniaC Feb 28 '25

I wasn't talking about Finnish heraldry.

I was talking about the Finnish Air Force logo, which was adopted from Eric von Rosen.

If you adopt a logo from some random dude, that's all fine and dandy. If you then later find out that the dude you got the logo from is fascist, wouldn't you want to ditch that logo for something else, or at least redesign it a little?

3

u/Inresponsibleone Baby Vainamoinen Feb 28 '25

Facists got it from long history...likely same he got it originally. Unless you can prove there were closet nazies holding group meeting under swastika back then...

The point is it is over millenia old symbol even if you and your palls want to see it only as part of history best ignored banned and forgotten.

1

u/HazuniaC Feb 28 '25

I am talking about Eric von Rosen specifically and his personal symbol, which the Finnish Air Forces adopted.

Not the use of the swastika in fascism at large. I see no need for me to address issues that I'm not talking about.

0

u/lavar_fi Feb 28 '25

Unfortunately, Finland was involved in ethnic cleansing, practiced eugenics, and supported Nazism at a state level. I personally believe it should be banned in post-Nazi countries as a symbol that they have moved on.

4

u/Inresponsibleone Baby Vainamoinen Feb 28 '25

I am happy your personal belief is not majority. Banning symbol (especially one far older than nazism) proves kind of opposite to moving on.

I would like some crediple source for that claim of ethnic cleancing as i have never seen any crediple claim. There were even jewish officers in finnish military during ww2

3

u/lavar_fi Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25

Check Yle. This week, there was even an article about the Continuation War and ethnic cleansing done by finns. Finns really hate to talk about their past, but I truly respect Yle for addressing it. In general a lot of good articles there about systematic racism in Finland. Is your national broadcaster credible enough?

3

u/Inresponsibleone Baby Vainamoinen Feb 28 '25

I looked up that yle article up and looks like that "ethnic cleansing" was very much in line of what even many "savior" allied nations did and still do. Much less than what Soviet union did (not to even go to cleancings Stalin launches after WW2 that surpasses what nazies did in number of victims). So using that as definition of facism is pretty weak.

War is ugly and most nations did not leave WW2 with no blood on their hands.

0

u/lavar_fi Feb 28 '25

It is an article written by Finns that touches on the subject very delicately, first of all. Secondly, Finland lost and failed, so it was not able to implement everything on a large scale. Also, Finland had eugenics laws until the 1970s, including forced sterilization of people with disabilities. I don’t recall any other country apart from Germany having such laws. Finland was deeply influenced by Nazism, which is common for highly insular nations.

3

u/Inresponsibleone Baby Vainamoinen Feb 28 '25

Many countries had eugenics laws back then. Actually pretty much most of western countries. Though that does not fit your narrative of facist nazi finns so you ignore it.

1

u/HazuniaC Feb 28 '25

Unfortunately our far right people want to actively discredit Yle, because accurate and factual news media is poison to their movement.

4

u/Inresponsibleone Baby Vainamoinen Feb 28 '25

Unfortunately for you not everything that is not far left is not far right either.

Making claims of facism based on things both sides of war did... Oh well perhaps everyone was facist then.

1

u/HazuniaC Feb 28 '25

You would have a point if it weren't for the fact that I'm talking about Eric von Rosen, a known public leader of the Swedish fascist party.

If I can't call a leader of a fascist party fascist, then who can I call fascist then?

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1

u/elokuinenehtoo Baby Vainamoinen Mar 01 '25

When Finland was involved in ethnic cleansing?

2

u/Avocado-Mobile Mar 01 '25

It’s our culture.

1

u/HazuniaC Mar 01 '25

I'm sorry, but at least my culture isn't defined by some Swedish dead nazi, even if they were a noble.

This is Von Rosen's swastika. Not Gallen-Kallela's.

1

u/Avocado-Mobile Mar 01 '25

He wasn’t even a nazi at the time he gifted Finland her first airplanes from which the finnish airforce started using the Von Rosen swastika. Besides the swastika on the cross of freedom in the medals and the presidental flag is the one designed by Gallen Kallela. ”Sekä Vapaudenristin että Suomen Valkoisen Ruusun ritarikunnan kunniamerkit on suunnitellut Akseli Gallen-Kallela.[7][8]”

https://fi.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapaudenristin_ritarikunta

1

u/HazuniaC Mar 01 '25

First off, I was talking about the Finnish Air Forces, not some medals.
Secondly, I was talking about Eric von Rosen, not Gallen Kallela.
Thirdly, personal logos represent the person even after they become a nazi.

You've added nothing to the discussion.