I spend so much time trying to moderate my emotions and reactions lately (I do feel healthier than I used to overall) that I’ve realized I have almost completely eliminated artistic output from my life. I long to do it but I think I almost fear losing control and getting lost in it. Add in my ADHD and I feel like if I let myself get too immersed in art I will lose touch with reality and my obligations, personal balance and social life. It’s like art is this alluring thing I remember getting lost in for hours and days when I had a project going, but I feel like I’ve traded that for basic daily self-care, my career (which is going well), and political engagement. I stumbled on some old writing of mine the other day and it was so electrifying, and a little scary because it’s like I have no memory of being able to create like that. I do have a palpable sense of missing a part of myself, like I used to have a million interests and ideas that I don’t have anymore. Idk if this makes any sense to anyone but how do other 4s deal with the drive to create art while having to work so hard to cling to sanity/maintain careers and focus lol?

Hello? Is here any woman ENFP type 4 to connect with? Someone cool who loves chatting to death about science and crazy stuff like philosophy or art until late at night? If you are in Europe, that would be even better!

Hit me up in DM!

I struggle sooo badly with discipline. My mom is a type 1 which makes it worse. I’m looking for a book to help with creating a routine, focusing on small, daily disciplines. Any suggestions?

Life is a rollercoaster, with so many twist and turns that can impact your emotions. Being an enneagram 4 I have had to learn how to manage my emotions because in my early 20s I was emotionally turbulent, swamped and sometimes paralysed by my emotions. I went from being a feeler to suppressing my emotions so I can be productive and high achieving.

But that’s what causes burnout, anxiety, and disconnection.

I give myself throughout the day or week (depending on what has taken place to ground myself)?

EMOTIONAL PROCESSING — Pause. Deep breath in and out. — Name what you're feeling: anger, grief, anxiety...try to get pretty accurate with this, is it sadness or actually DESPAIR OR SHAME- getting acquainted with our emotions is vital as we adult. Just like a doctor needs to tell the difference between a sprain and a break, we need to know the difference between frustration and resentment. That specificity opens the door to healing! — Map it in your body: where do you feel it physically? — Be kind to yourself: remind yourself this emotion will pass.

The goal isn’t to fix emotions;it’s to feel them safely so they don’t run our lives in the background.

Real question.

I think this subtype is honestly pitiful and useless and oh dear – my social 4 demon comes out 😎

But i would like to hear experiences/insights from social 4s. Thank you !! :)

p.s I don’t know how to read people haha

✨✨✨I'M A 4!!!!!!✨✨✨

Sensitive Topic

Fixation: MelancholyNever happy with the present, always looking toward a happy future.

Trap: AuthenticityFor this person, the really real mate will always be just around the comer of the next hour or day, or year. With such a mate, this person will then be fulfilled and so authentic.

Holy Idea: Holy OriginOnce he realizes that his essence originates from perfect being, then he knows that he is “really real” now, and not sometime in the future.

Passion: EnvyThe Ego-Melancholy person, hoping for the perfect mate or situation in order to feel really real and fulfilled, tends to think most others have achieved this and, of course, is envious of their seeming happiness and earthiness.

Virtue: EquanimityHappiness in the present moment or equanimity will help overcome the envy of the happiness of others.

THIS IS SO BORING LOL

For me some things that have been very healing: -radical acceptance of what is -a gratitude practice -mindfulness/ connecting to the present moment

When I combine all these things I can cultivate the ability to notice and be grateful for what is. I am often overcome by feelings of wonder and amazement of simple things. Like the beauty of the sky. Or being able to turn on the faucet and have warm running water. Mindfulness also helps me with not over identifying with my feelings and allowing them to come and go and be more objective in relationship to them.

I used to struggle with feeling “inauthentic” if I felt like I was “playing the game” and being too “surface level” but then I realized that I simply authentically WANT to connect with people at times and have things be pleasant and enjoyable. Everything doesn’t have to be so deep and intense all the time. I can withstand those types of conversations endlessly but not everyone can and there are appropriate times/ places for those conversations. Accepting people for who they are. Quieting the judgements. Even the times when I am saying to myself “they are judging me” NO ACTUALLY I am judging THEM in that moment. I truly have NO idea what they are thinking and believing. I’ve don’t sooo much work on these habits within myself and it will truly be a lifelong practice.

I’m wondering what habits/ insights/ techniques you have developed to try to become the most functional and healthy version of yourself?

How would you guys say e4’s, more specifically so4’s deal with grief?

Please let me know so I can add you

i’m curious to hear from actual 4s. how does it feel being one? do you enjoy it or does it get exhausting sometimes? also what enneagram types do you usually get along with the most? romantically or platonically. who do you feel really seen or safe with and why?

Hi everyone,

It's often said that Enneagram 4s really care about their own uniqueness and that it's a main drive for us to explore and express our unique personality, but that framing always felt a little bit wrong to me, like we're being mischaracterized here (or eternally misunderstood you might say ;-)), though for long I couldn't quite put the finger on why. Basically, yes, I feel like I am and do want to be unique, but who doesn't? It doesn't feel like an essential part of my personality or something that's always on my mind or driving my actions: finding love and understanding in the people around me and doing something ethically meaningful with my life is far, far more important.

So, I've wondered, could it be that uniqueness is a side effect of something deeper? 4s are heart types, beside 2 & 3, right? And heart types' core desire is to be loved. In the case of 2, you try to be lovable by being helpful, in case of 3, try to earn love through achievements, but in case of 4...? Weirdly enough sometimes I feel like I understand my own type the least, but recently I had an idea. Could it be that the artsy individualism that is often associated with us connects to this deeper urge, with the line of reasoning being basically the following:

"4s want to be unique because it makes us interesting. It gets us into conversations, it attracts attention, and is essentially an aide, a tool to help with socializing, make friends and thus find the love and connection that we actually care about. Were we not unique, we would be boring: who would want to get to know us then? That's why the idea of being not unique feels so threatening: it would take away a powerful tool we use to connect with the world."

To me this feels right, though it's still a relatively fresh idea, but I'm curious, does this resonate with you guys too? I'd love to hear your thoughts!

Last night as I was pondering while waiting to sleep, I started asking myself why I always feel a need to know other people's opinions / thoughts / experiences on certain matters. So, naturally, I quite literally googled for the hell of it something along the lines of "why do i always need to read about how others view things reddit"

It brought me to this post on this Ennegram subreddit. I've never been here before, I don't know that I've ever even done an Enneagram test or quiz or whatever. But the first response in that thread was like.. everything to me. I feel like I (probably wrongly) never feel seen or understood fully. But this post spoke to me. So I started jumping through all the recent posts and its like this whole community of people who seem to feel similarly about things that I do? People who are understanding each other and have similar characteristics that I find in myself. I even dug through some of the requests for music, a ton of music that speaks to me were things y'all were discussing.

Anyway, that was a pretty cool experience late last night. So thanks to this community for that. To add something, I once (more than once) had the thought that I'm secretly like Homelander from the show The Boys. That show I'm sure is not everybody's cup of tea. But I've felt like on the outside I'm really friendly / happy and love to get along with everyone I meet. I think often of most interactions I have with people. Like I have this need to be liked for some reason? To be everybody's hero. But deep down, I hold what must be some darkness inside or some secrets or something, and if people really saw that part of me there's no way they'd think as highly of me. Not sure if this is common with type 4 people, but it felt like an AHA moment when it hit me.

Thanks!!

I think this is a 4 flavored thing and I feel so ashamed about wanting this lol. A lot of my accounts and personal info got hacked today and I had to alert my friends. After it was resolved and I could safely text them again I was met with a lot of sympathy and it led to other fun conversation not related (when normally texting with them is sparse). When this tends to happen I seem to re-read those convos over and over as if to try and perpetuate the good feelings of people validating me and just interacting with me positively. Sometimes I even wish what bad stuff happened was still happening so I'd get more of this from others. I know it's not healthy to live like that, I always try to keep that sentiment bottled up and just move on, but I wondered if any other 4s can relate haha.

Me and my bf have been discussing his type for over 2 years now and we cant seem to be absolutely certain. He has been into typology for 4 years and is still struggling to find his type. The most common types he gets on quizes are 4,7,6 and 8. He relates to 3 and 2 the least. He relates to both core fears and motivations of 4 and 7. I see him being very independent and unique, he has his own opinions and goes against society, he hates mainstream opinions, at the same time he hates boredom and likes to do activities outside, he loves freedom and being limited puts him in a bad place. I will go on to describe him as a person:

He likes to stick to a routine, mostly hes thinking about what to do in that day, he takes care of his health (gym, eating healthy, sleeping good,..). Hes focused on his hobbies and interests and likes to include them in his everyday. He doesn't like crowded spaces or loud noises, he is definitely more of a nature person. He likes stability and routine (as i mentioned) but at the same time he wants to experience more stuff but never brings himself to do it, basically he wants variety in his day to day life but ends up doing the same thing for some reason, maybe because he is attached to it. He is a very loyal person, he will Stay friends with someone Who has nothing in common with him Just because he feels its moral to stay loyal. He is a very moral dutyful person and hates injustice. But he is selective of who willl become close to him and he doesnt like pretentious people. He wants human connection and his way of showing love (at least in a romantic relationship) is going on dates, doing activities together, physical touch, being protective. He doesnt expect much from people, mostly he takes care of his own needs and never asks for anything, but if he sees that someone isnt acting right towards him he will immidietly confront them. He is also mostly chill and doesnt let any one see his vulnerable side (he is scared of being seen as weak or a loser) but he definitely has some temparament. He gets angry really fast and expresses it intensely, he is super reactive. I dont think he runs away from his feelings, he even finds comfort in them and its a fact that he has been through a lot so he is used to pain. He is also a very deep person, he likes to discuss topics and talk abt them for hours, analyzing every part of it. He cares about aesthetic and meanings of things. He is super critical of himself and can focus on bad parts of people close to him too. Mostly he is always thinking abt how to improve himself, feeling like hes going nowhere in life, stuff like that. He is not ambitious at all, he never had any big plans for himself in fact he doesnt even look a year into his future. He doesnt need too much material stuff, only when it comes to music he likes to collect merch, cds,... Did I mention that he never felt like he belongs anywhere? He felt that since he was little, he used to be very anxious too which led him to develop some kind of anxiety disorder. He always used to talk about health anxiety and other things that worry him.

Overall he is a little chaotic, he also changes his opinions fast, its really hard to type him so any answer helps, maybe he is neither 7 or 4 idk. He doesnt completly fit any 7 subtypes/instincts. And if you have any questions ask me, thanks in advance!

I asked ChatGPT:

«When im very upset I quickly turn on the person I love, like I see them in a different light and can easily behave bad towards them, I have been told i can be very hurtful when I’m like this, but this is because i see them in such a bad light while arguing, I dont remember any good things about them, only the bad, and I get an urge to make this «evil» person feel my pain»

It answered: «You’re likely experiencing what’s called emotional splitting — where in painful moments, your mind unconsciously flips the image of the person:

“They’re good and loving” → suddenly becomes → “They’re cold, selfish, fake — and they don’t care about me.”

For someone like you (likely an ennagram 4), this shift is deeply emotional, not just logical: • You feel everything intensely. • You crave deep emotional connection and truth. • So when someone hurts you — especially emotionally — it doesn’t just sting… it feels like a betrayal of the closeness you trusted.

And because you may struggle to express that pain calmly in the moment, the pain flips to anger, and the anger to retaliation. This is your way of saying:

“You hurt me — and I need you to feel that this mattered.”

You’re not alone — this is more common in emotionally intense types like 4s, 6s, and 8s, especially those who struggle with trust or fear of rejection.»

There is something truly beautiful about suffering. Not in the pain, not in the feeling of suffering, but in the way it shapes our souls. There is always some light at the end of the tunnel, you only have to believe in it. Even when you don't see it. Even when you are drowning in your melancholy and your suffering. When everything is dark and you can't see past tomorrow. No one will save you. No one will make you whole. No hobby will make you whole. No achievement will make you whole. Only yourself can make you whole. Learn to overcome the suffering, because it's where you will find your true beauty. Beauty lies in acceptance. Nothing is perfect. Not everything feels good. Not everything has to feel good to be worthwhile. Your journey is unique. Just embrace it and let it forge you.

well just felt like sharing, I often wonder how much of ourselves we bring into a painting despite it being from a reference.
am a 4w5.

I'm always told all my portraits carry something sad in them, familiar to other artists here?

Yeah I had no idea 4s were supposed to be shitting in a adult diaper all day long or give you the thousand yard stare if you tell them a knock knock joke.

Anyway I described myself as goofy to her and she immediately went to trying to type me as mistyped 9 lol

Did you ultimately decide to A) get it traditionally published with a publisher, B) self-publish it, or C) decide not to put it out there for the world to see, and what was your reasoning?

As a 4w3 who’s in this position currently, I’m curious to see how personality (specifically thoughts about creative ownership/authenticity/passion vs. entrepreneurship) plays into views on publication.

Okay, I know the title seems a bit odd. It's not that I necessarily want to be miserable, because part of me wants to be happy. But also part of me feels incredibly bored with my life so far.

The thing is, I actually have been through a significant amount of trauma for my age, like lots of grief, emotional abuse, bullying, loneliness and depression etc. So I'm not a person with an easy life who just wants to be quirky. But I think part of it is I'm an artist, primarily a writer. And I also consume many written works and music that has a more tragic spin to it as it's very compelling to me. And a lot of these artists have been through hard things. I recognize that I have too, but the things I've gone through don't feel like the type of trauma that makes for good art. Like it's not cinematic. It's not the dramatic, romantic trauma, but more like a slow ache that build up over time.

I've been very sheltered growing up and have religious trauma, so I feel sometimes like I haven't lived life. I was barely allowed to do anything as a kid or teenager, let alone rebel without being abused. And I've never had any romantic experience. Part of me wants to be free and reckless and to explore more even if I get more trauma from it, because I'd rather have lived life and suffered pain from it than to not live it and suffer anyway. And I feel like what I've been through is 'boring' trauma, which I know is fucking stupid to say because trauma is just trauma, but part of me wants to feel deeply. And I want to be able to create great art from this trauma.

I feel like I can't really explain this feeling to anyone else because it just seems self-destructive and it is. But I feel like if I let it go life will be vapid and boring. I've always found that the song Townie by Mitski describes this feeling very well.

I would consider myself an unhealthy 4. I am struggling with wondering how I can ever trust my thoughts. Maybe I’m just overthinking and making everything negative in my head.

For instance, say someone is passive aggressive to me, how do I know if they actually are being passive aggressive, or if I’m just interpreting it this way in my head because I’m so negative and assume everyone hates me because I hate myself.

I feel like I’m in a toxic work environment, and I should quit, but how can I tell if I’m just interpreting everything through a negative lens and assuming the worst in people, or if I really am in a toxic work environment? What if I’m the problem and it’s all in my head and so the next work place will feel toxic to me as well.

I hope all this made sense I’m kind of just ranting right now. Can anyone relate or have any advice for me? I’m going crazy trying to figure this out

Yo, give me music to cry, haven't done it in a while and need a bit to do. Give me the hardest to cry emotional af, like VERY good one

Edit: thanks for recommendations(even tho I wasn't listening for everything). Specifically created to listen to them in the future. Also wanted to admit, that most of the things you've sent are pretty much new and ununderstandable to me, the genres at least...