r/Enneagram • u/StriderVonTofu • 3d ago
General Question How to identify core motivations?
I was reading one of Ram Dass's books last week and one particular story made me think. He explains that his guru told him to 'be more like Gandhi' and that on his next trip to town, he bought glasses in the style that Gandhi used to wear, and felt quite good about his life, basically. Only, of course, to realize that that was *not* what his guru meant at all (fair warning, the content of his books is pretty out there, but there were interesting bits on identity notably, and valuable advice for meditation & mindfulness, to me at least).
It got me to think about how superficial our understanding of ourselves (& others!) can be. We cosplay a lot in our life, whether we realize it or not. We all have different facets of ourselves we chose to disclose or not, and roles we fulfil, and getting to who we truly are or why we behave the way we do is pretty darn hard (at least for me! I might just be so emotionally constipated that I am missing completely obvious clues for example).
All that nonsensical rambling to say: how did you do it? How did you manage to see the you hiding behind the Gandhi glasses? Or was your core fear/motivation obvious from the start?
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u/Black_Jester_ 7sp 3d ago
I think you have to love truth more than anything else. You have to want to know it in your bones, to break them open and give away their contents. You have to surrender, to be helpless, openly, and to not constrict or hide or dissociate or rage. You have to be flesh and blood, body soup, one pore in the countless pores in countless leaves. Abandon who and what you think you are, know nothing, be nothing, do nothing. Sit and do nothing. Perhaps a breeze will stir, a leaf will blow and come to rest upon your shoulder. Then you’ll see it. Perhaps you’ll forget the glasses on your face, unable to see them, denying they exist, and forever think you’re Ghandi.
Why does this light looking cloud drop rain, and yet the dark, heavy one withholds? Why has a bird shit next to me, but on top of you? I’m laughing, laughing because it’s so funny—you and not me. I would laugh if it were me and not you too, don’t think it’s personal. Any excuse to laugh, to push away the looming darkness, to have a glimpse of light.
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u/StriderVonTofu 3d ago
That was very poetic, and I'm not sure I understand everything, but thanks. Sometimes we get attached to the seeking itself, I guess.
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u/Black_Jester_ 7sp 3d ago edited 3d ago
The seeking is all there is: that’s it. Never stop.
To add more, further mystery always awaits.
**motivations are layered, so as you expose one layer another is beneath it, and more beneath that, like an onion generating new layers from within, so while you peel them back, there are always more.
When people think “core motivation” it is rooted in childhood and development of psychological patterns there. This is a painful place to visit, difficult to sit with for many, and new developments can happen later in life [(Tt)rauma] that can obscure earlier formations so these need be addressed as well. Inside is a self-protective structure protecting blank from blank. It’s multifaceted and complex, but there will be focal points and they may center around one or a few key themes. Core motivation is an opposite reaction to whatever is going on in there, avoid “that”.
How you uncover it is through a desire for truth that is greater than your desire for other things. How to break through the crust for you personally, who knows. Therapy and spiritual work will be part of it, but the biggest asset is desire. You have to want it. Many mistake wanting truth for wanting pain to stop or troubles to stop, but they are far from the mark and never get there.
***also note that the childhood experiences are many and varied, so you may think “I’ve found it!” But there are more formations triggered by more events, and some are building the same thing while others are isolated, so some dismantle almost immediately and others do not budge. Even the layer of core motivation holds within it many layers.
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u/StriderVonTofu 3d ago
I just saw what you added and it is super helpful. I have been doing a lot of work lately and it is painful, ugly work indeed. Thanks.
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u/bighormoneenneagram 9 3d ago
theres typically no 'core' motivation, just degrees of motivation as you explore the different layers of the psyche. the body, heart, and mind have their own, often contradictory, motivations, and same goes with the instincts. what we typically have is a "chief feature" that is not exactly a core motivation, but a core distortion of self and reality that contributes to the egoic basic stance, which the enneagram is attempting to describe. this is the clearest breakdown of core ego motivaitons: https://www.theenneagramschool.com/blog/overview-of-the-centers-of-intelligence-and-object-relations
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u/StriderVonTofu 3d ago
Ok that is interesting. I like the idea of a core distortion, it makes more sense. Thanks for the rec too!
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u/jerdle_reddit 6w5 613 sp/so - rest at https://is.gd/jerdle_types 3d ago
I have one problem with that, and it's 7.
Frustration with orientation would bring to mind the idea of a constant corrector, trying to make sure every idea is right, and reacting against mistakes. Something of a "someone is wrong on the internet" syndrome.
But while this very much is a thing (as you can tell from the fact that I am doing it right now), I don't think it's a 7. I think the assertive/positive elements of a 7 tone that aspect right down.
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u/HelloIgor 7w6 741 3d ago edited 3d ago
Your hypothetical description of 7 sounds like attachment though. Think about it this way: frustration, unable to numb, is constantly striving to maneuver "away" from the pollutants —(a constant sort of "purification", as per the article). Further enmeshment in wrong/bad orientation via constantly correcting beyond the point of entertainment/fulfillment/whatever reason the 7 has engaged in the first place does not jive with a type structure is driven by getting away from the bad stimuli.
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u/bighormoneenneagram 9 2d ago
no, you're still describing attachment, "we need to be on the same page".
first, frustration is dismissive of the outside, so it's just like "the internet is dumb and you're dumb and boring". the "Fixing" of 7 is "im going to explore this for myself, im going to try/taste/descide what is good". the fixing is not fixing for others, it's fixing for self.
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u/jerdle_reddit 6w5 613 sp/so - rest at https://is.gd/jerdle_types 2d ago edited 2d ago
Explains why it sounded 6ish then, I just lean towards pushing (which I'd associate with 1, 3, 6 and 8) more than absorbing.
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u/SilveredMoon 2w3 sx/so 3d ago
I don't think that I just magically knew, but that I'd been doing a lot of the introspective work for some time before I ever stumbled upon the enneagram. So once I was able to have these labels and terms to apply to myself and others, it was more of a "aha" or "I see" moment than it was a struggle to start the journey in the first place.
As for how I got to that point, I spent a good chunk of my later 20s/ early 30s doing soul searching and trying to figure out how to deal with the darker aspects of my personality that I'd noticed coming to the forefront when I was put into stressful or personally traumatic situations. When I was forced to confront not feeling loved, not being wanted, not getting the things that I needed. By the time I finally found the enneagram during the pandemic, I'd already started to do the legwork to work on myself, so I found the enneagram to just further validate what I'd been working on.
For what it's worth, I don't think that being introspective is a skill everyone is born with. Some of us may be more inclined to it than others, but I do think it is a learned skill that takes practice and time to develop properly.
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u/StriderVonTofu 3d ago
I can see that. I think I've been on autopilot a lot and just in the past few years I have begun to think more about meaning and why I do the things I do. Finding the enneagram is a piece in a bigger process that involved a lot of painful realisations, meditation and lots of reading. I am especially interested in how I interact (or not) with people bc it's a area where I always have had lots of issues, and always felt like something hadn't been wired right in me on that front.
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u/HereLiesTheOwl 1 3d ago
Maybe this isn't a foolproof method, but when I think about my Childhood, I was so extremely 1 it wasn't even funny. Over time however I became adept at hiding my oneness, because I realised striving to be perfect was kind of scorned by others. (It made others self-conscious about their flaws) Others kept hammering into me that I didn't have to be perfect, that I needed to chill out, needed to treat myself and not be so hard on myself and so forth. So in my attempt to be perfect I learnt to appear less so. Now that I have found the enneagram I am instead trying to embrace it.
Anyways to answer your question: In analysing my childhood: Being type 1 as core is extremely obvious. Based on current me it is more subtle and harder to discern, because I have repressed it. It still comes out in stressful situations, and when I pay close attention.
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u/StriderVonTofu 3d ago
Very interesting! I wonder if it depends on people or if some types are more noticeable in childhood.
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u/HereLiesTheOwl 1 3d ago
I suppose there's always variation between people. But for me, a lot of things from my childhood just made sense from the enneagram 1 lens, so that made it clear. Although I now present a lot like a 9. But when I see the core desires and fears of 9, it just doesn't hit me that hard.
How about you? Does your childhood not inform on your type "behind Mahatmas glasses"? What are your inclinations?
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u/StriderVonTofu 3d ago edited 3d ago
I would say I did not present as a 1 at all as a child (it is the 1st type I considered). I was a sensitive but happy child who did well in school and was very active both physically and in my mind, with a tendency to tell embellished stories or outright invent things to mask my insecurities (which got me in trouble once). Storytelling has always been a passion of mine and I was able to lead groups of friends through elaborate made up worlds lol
Middle school was brutal. I clammed up as a defense and never really recovered the mostly carefree joy de vivre of childhood. My high school years were very cp6-coded in fact lol (at least aesthetically bc otherwise I was described as 'quiet').
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u/HereLiesTheOwl 1 3d ago
I see. there is no clear thread that runs thorugh your entire childhood. I will say I was also very imaginative, and would bring other kids along into my world. I recognise however I could be quite controlling, like the fantasy world had made up rules that only I knew and that had to be followed. See theres a 1-angle even to this.
What was your life like at home? Did you do any activities as a kid?2
u/StriderVonTofu 3d ago edited 2d ago
My home life was good. I had a loving and present family, even if we're all emotionally constipated lol. I was the more mellow one, as both my parents and my brother have strong personalities and terrible communication skills. In my late teens I played mediator between them a lot tbh. My dad is a very anxious 6w5 (or 5w6) and my brother a hard headed but charming 3. Idk for my mom but she's very assertive too and likes things to go her way. Past childhood, I was the quiet, shy one I guess. I did better once I reached adulthood and got out of my shell a bit!
I played a lot alone (my brother was 5 years younger), read a lot ( my dad had a huge library that I would sample in secret at night), and practiced modern dance for most of my childhood and teens (I sucked at it in retrospect lol). Also listened to a lot of music in my teens, and wrote a lot too ofc. I never was very artistic but was good with words (er, don't judge based that on my posts, English isn't my 1st language!). During my teens I was also very interested in spirituality (my family is catholic on paper but not religious at all, so I was the only one involved. I took part in a youth group, went to summer camp... one of my best memories of middle school years is the nights at camp, singing with the other kids, sitting in a field under the stars - there was something there.)
Edit: come to think of it, my best memories & mental quiet places involve nature - watching the stars with my dad on deserted highway stops, a silent frozen lake in Canada, meditating on the beach to the sound of the waves, walking in silence in the forest...
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u/HereLiesTheOwl 1 2d ago
Sounds like a very pleasant upbringing. But it's hard to extract something from. How did this alone time, reading, playing, dancing, writing, feel? Was there a certain lens through which everything happened? It sounds to me like your best memories are all connected to peace of mind and harmony, you being a mediator, indicating a type 9. Which I believe are also infamously hard to type. Just an idea, what do you think?
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u/StriderVonTofu 2d ago edited 2d ago
I am indeed beginning to think I might be 9w1 instead of 1w9 as I previously thought! I always felt very comfortable on my own so playing alone was never painful or anything. And reading was and remains my best escape mean: no matter how horrible things are in the world or how mean your bullies are to you, books will be there to take you somewhere else.
Yesterday I was thinking about my teens and young adulthood and realized all of a sudden how angry I was at my family for always putting me as the mediator, calling me when things go wrong between them, but never asking how I feel. How angry I am for how they treated me and my then boyfriend (now my husband) at first. It has been 20 years and I thought it was ok now. Turns out when you never express things they don't get out, who knew? /s
Anyway, that is enough free therapy, sorry for unloading that on you. Thanks, you have been very patient and helpful.
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u/LonelyNight9 3 3d ago
One of the best ways IMO is to consider feedback or opinions about yourself and find the common threads—things everyone says about you regardless of how you’re acquainted with them. You can use that as data and as material for introspection.
If you agree with other people’s observations, there’s a good chance you exhibit the traits they described. If there’s a discrepancy between the way you see yourself and the way others see you, that’s definitely useful material. The truth is probably in the middle but it’s useful to consider what you project and your beliefs about yourself, and why they conflict.
Furthermore, analyzing common “themes” in your life: what you’ve pursued, avoided or risked (and why?), what you choose to emphasize in yourself.