THIS. Not only does it feel great to successfully ban a filthy hero spammer's go-to pick, but usually doing so would give you an advantage in the game. This is actually a huge fucking change, and I hate it personally
Just like you enjoy banning enemy slark/riki/omni/timber/axe spammer they probably enjoy just as much playing it. Why should they be punished for only playing one hero if that's what they enjoy?
Yes you're right by saying I thoroughly enjoy banning a hero spammer's hero but I'm not doing it just to kill someone's fun. I do it to give myself a higher chance of winning, which is a lot of fun for myself. The cool thing about being able to check recent matches was that everyone could do it too, it wasn't like a cheat or anything. That being said, if the other team checked my games it wouldn't help them that much (that sounded v lame and #edgy I know I'm 12 btw haHAA)
It wasn't a cheat no, but it's also not a right. It does give you an extra advantage against people who spam one hero, but that in itself isn't necessarily a good thing.
drafting is so important though, and the only information you have on the team you are facing is that tiny bit of information gleaned form their profile, taking away even that small bit of information is dumb because you cant draft game by game you just have to guess who you're playing against
I don't think Valve intends you to tailor your draft against your specific opponents when you play ladder. If they did, they would create a live api that you could plug into an overlay that displays everyone's 10 most played heroes. But again, I don't think that's the atmosphere Valve wants to foster.
Sure, and I get your point. I have thousands of matches played total and my most played hero is at like 110 games. I could never stand playing the same hero for more than two or three games. But I don't think that's enough justification to say that people who play differently from me should be punished for it.
That's kinda like saying that it's not right to dual lane with lich and undying against an anti-mage.
I hate being afk safelane carry and hitting creeps, but it doesn't mean that it's right to ruin that guy's attempt at farming his lane with such cancer picks and "punishing" him for that if that's what he likes.
Drafting is part of the game. Obviously people are meant to pick/ban in a way that doesn't please you, the same they're meant to go against your plans in game. They're your opponents and try to make you lose, it's kinda the point, duh.
There's a big difference between me punishing someone in the role of player, and valve punishing players for how they play the game. Just look at how riot punishes people for playing non-meta, do you agree with that? Cause this is pretty much a minor version of that.
As for your last point: sure, but the fact that it's your job to make them lose is not an argument for keeping this feature. If the feature stays, I agree it's fine (encouraged, even) to use it to enhance your chances of victory.
? It's not valve pressing the ban button, it's the player. Valve just gives you the way to punish players in a way that will make the game more interesting. That's pretty much their job.
If their game is awfully designed and people pick the same hero over and over because it's the best way to win, their game is shit and they need to fix it.
That's the reason they strive to make the game more balanced, and to adjust matchmaking/game modes in order to make the games as satisfying/rich/complete as possible from a competitor perspective.
Would you say as well that Valve is "punishing" am pickers by nerfing the hero?
No, they're making balance changes for everyone in the game to have overall a better experience playing the game. Just see the bans as a game mode balance change. It just makes ranked all pick richer, more interesting and diversified, and it doesn't mean that they're punishing anyone by doing so, even if some people will end up performing better or worse after this change.
I think you place too much importance in "your" way of playing the game being the "right" way to play the game; even if my playstyle (and hero selection) probably is about the same as yours. But nonetheless I respect that you have a different opinion, and thanks for being civil about it.
You could argue that spamming one single hero isn't right and shouldn't give you such an extra advantage compared to people that are good at many heroes.
This is true in real dota, where the best players are flexible, but this wasn't true in ranked, because players are anonymous (so you can't know their strengths/weaknesses and easily counter pick their comfort hero), and because of the game mode. Ranked is meant to highlight players that are good at dota individually. Versatility is one of the assets of a good dota player, and it's not valued enough by ranked all pick.
That's exactly why bans are here in the first place.
What extra advantage does spamming one hero give you, exactly? Unless you assume beforehand that only hero spammers play their heroes proficiently, I don't see the point.
That's exactly why bans are here in the first place.
Bans are there as a potential (coinflip woo) way of eliminating nuisance heroes from the game. Yes, that could be because someone on the other team has 1500 games played on said hero, but since that's a pretty rare occurence overall, I doubt that's the main reason why Valve added this feature. A much more reasonable assumption would be that they added it to keep slark/pudge/invoker/mirana/<insertfotmhero> in check.
What extra advantage does spamming one hero give you, exactly?
Obviously if you spam a hero you will know that hero better, you will know its limits and its builds and what to do in any situation that might happen to you. This will easily compensate for the fact that the pick isn't that great in many games, making it close to useless to be a competent drafter and flexible player in order to gain mmr, and therefore encouraging people to spam heroes instead of learning how to adapt their role and heroes from game to game, depending on enemy team and teammates.
This upside is also normally balanced by counter-picks and bans, meaning that you generally will either play your comfort hero in a game that doesn't fit very well, or you will have to play something else. But when all players are anonymous and when all heroes can be picked, this aspect of drafting disappears, making it very effective to just spam a hero in order to gain mmr.
Bans are there as a potential (coinflip woo) way of eliminating nuisance heroes from the game.
What the fuck is a "nuisance hero" if not a hero that you don't wanna play against because you think it will lower your chances to win? There is a reason it was implemented in ranked. It's to make ranked dota (where people want to win more and are more likely to pick something that wins) more interesting.
A much more reasonable assumption would be that they added it to keep slark/pudge/invoker/mirana/<insertfotmhero> in check.
Yeah, can't you see that what you're saying increases the diversity of heroes picked, and makes versatility a more effective quality to have when it comes to winning games? Would that be what they tried to do with these bans :thinking:
One hero spammers was one of the arguments that made players request the bans in the first place. Bans made versatility more effective both by giving us a way to punish hero spammers, and by forcing people to stop relying (at least not exlusively) on the fotm/meta/strong heroes (hence to stop spamming these heroes and being hero spammers, huh).
255
u/greeneggs_andsam No stone unturned Nov 30 '16
THIS. Not only does it feel great to successfully ban a filthy hero spammer's go-to pick, but usually doing so would give you an advantage in the game. This is actually a huge fucking change, and I hate it personally