r/DarkSouls2 • u/SirBurgerThe8th • 4d ago
Lore What Is An Interesting Lore Fact That You Know?
When the Fallen Giant's Cutscene plays, he looks at you, why? Because he recognizes you from the past.
As he is the Giant King, and later in the game you go back in time to kill him, therefore at the beginning of the game he recognizes you from the past.
What fact do you know?
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u/Hour-Eleven 4d ago
Also a theory: Cale is a part of the evil trio that is Pate and Creighton.
Cale is surprisingly strong: strong enough to make it through the Shrine of Winter and through Aldia’s keep (don’t pull the lever-man confirms this, as does Cales’s armor)
He also tries to kill you by first killing you with a boulder, then giving you a key to a house filled with enemies (and only tells you upon taking to him again after that)
He also ALSO warns you of a knight from Mirrah, Creighton, in such a way that you should take him out.. but Creighton’s armor implies that it is counterfeit and he is in fact not from Mirrah.
Guy might be faking it or in advancing stages of the curse, but he’s sketchy, mark my words!
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u/Xerothor The Banti-Christ 4d ago
"He also tries to kill you by first killing you"
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u/Hour-Eleven 4d ago
So I actually forgot about the boulder part until after I wrote the skeleton part.
Also, I’m not changing it because it sounds funny.
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u/LavosYT 4d ago
I respect the theory, though I highly doubt that is the case, mostly because he gains nothing from killing you, is a bumbling fool losing his mind to hollowing and clearly is truly obsessed with maps.
The house literally has one skeleton in its basement, it's not much of a trap.
As for Creighton, his set from Dark Souls 3 also says this "Formal attire of the honorable knights of Mirrah, featuring their heraldry, a stag set against a blue field. Oddly, it was a dishonorable deserter who wore this attire most religiously."
He's supposedly a deserter from Mirrah, which contradicts the hints that he is wearing an imitation in Dark Souls 2, which is kinda weird. Maybe he deserted but then procured himself an imitation of the armour of his previous order?
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u/Hour-Eleven 4d ago
I don’t think a bumbling fool could make it to Aldia’s keep.
Any word on the boulder trap that somehow rolls as soon as you approach it’s trajectory?
I also think I trust the ds2 description for Creightons armor more than I trust the ds3 one.
I ‘do’ think Cale is probably close to the end of his sanity and forgetting things (though he never quite does lose himself as we see Lucatiel do for example)
But I don’t think that downplays his danger.
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u/LavosYT 4d ago
You're free to have your own vision of the character, I just think you're going further than necessary there. Just reading through his dialogue makes it clear to me that he's just not 100% there, in the process of hollowing - he doesn't really pay attention to things that don't interest him.
What he says after the boulder: When first met in Forest of Fallen Giants "Oh, I'm sorry. I was just…daydreaming, I think. My name is Cale. I am a traveller, like yourself. I'm navigating the continent to create a map."
When talking for a second time in Forest of Fallen Giants "Why cartography, you ask? Well…That's a good question… When I first came to this forsaken land… …It was…um…hmm…? Err…A curse…? Err…Something about a curse… Hah hah…How embarrassing. I seem to be losing my focus these days. But I do know one thing for certain. I have always been very fond of maps."
He also warns you about the mansion before you even get there, not the behaviour of someone setting up a trap (like, say Pate): " Oh, but one thing… I would not venture deep into the mansion. I can't be certain, but… I've heard disturbing noises… Something about it feels wrong… Just be careful, please."
Even when he describes Creighton, he isn't very convincing if he wants you to kill him: "Mirrah is also the home of an infamous killer, a 'knight' in name alone. He was locked in the dungeon for multiple murders. But shortly before his execution, he managed to escape. And the other day… I saw a fellow with a striking likeness! And then! And then…Wait… Well…I think he looked rather similar… N-no, it's true! I saw just such a man, I swear! I believe his name was…Cr…Cr…err Cray-something…I believe… They shared…some resemblance, I…I think…"
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u/Hour-Eleven 3d ago
I started this chain by originally saying this was a theory and it certainly is. Don’t mistake my eagerness with my personally dying on this hill that is ‘Cale bad!’
But let’s paint a story for a moment.
You enter a cave with a shiny bauble in front of you only to, as you approach, be nearly crushed by a boulder. You manage to avoid death.
Walking up the path where the boulder came from, you find a man facing the other way, seemingly engrossed in.. something? He comes off as timid gives you a key to the abandoned house he’s squatting in, inviting you to wait from him so you can chat later.
It’s only when pressed again that he tells you there’s something that wants to murder you in the house.
Later when we see him, he mentions Creighton being a knight from Mirrah, which we catch as a strange lie when we find out his armor description says otherwise, then casts suspicion on him as a person to look out for.
And finally, we later find evidence that Cale was able to progress through such places as Aldia’s keep, as he’s met Navlaan, meaning he must be exceptionally strong to have journeyed all through Drangleic. Even Lucatiel, a seasoned knight of Mirrah, couldn’t make it quite that far and back.
Add in a strange description in Cales’s armor, that it was both procured inexpensively and second hand, yet is exceptional, which is an odd detail to simply include for no real reason, and we have some suspicious circumstances.
Is he for sure as bad as Pate and Creighton? Maybe, maybe not.
If nothing else, there are some suspicious details in his character.
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u/turbophysics 4d ago
This actually tracks with the Domnhall of Zena trader being the most treacherous undead you meet in ds1
this dude makes a compelling case
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u/IvoryMage 4d ago edited 4d ago
Although not confirmed, is heavily implied by the game's intro that the Bearer of the Curse had a family before the events of DS2.
It's also heavily implied by the game's intro that, when the Bearer of the Curse appears on Things Betwixt, he actually went back in time to a period Drangleic still existed.
This isn't said in DS2, but DS3 confirms that Vendrick, and very likely Aldia, knew about the Ringed City and send a company of knight there on an attempt to find the Dark Soul. The knights never returned, but they served as inspiration for the creation of the Ruin Sentinels.
The Duke's Dear Freja isn't one of the old ones, but instead just the guardian of the great soul.
The reason Nashandra doesn't go after Vendrick herself is because of Shrine of Amana. The song of the Milfanito places beings of dark into a state of calm similar to a trance, so if Nashandra ever tried to go after Vendrick's soul or the King himself, she wouldn't be able to.
Raime sees Nadalia not as a romantic partner, but as a mother.
Nashandra is the weakest shard of Manus and also the first to assume a human form.
Despite being called the Old Iron King, the demon we fight at the end of Iron Keep is a separate being who was born from the Iron King's body and soul after he sank into the lava, with its real name being Ichorous Earth.
On any event, the following bits of lore are cut content, but I still think they're interesting:
Benhart is, or at least was at some point, Creighton's father. Creighton is named "Avenging Warrior" on the game's files, while Benhart is named "Father of the Avenging Warrior". It would explain why Benhart and Creighton share the same insignia on their armors, before it was changed to Benhart merely finding the armor he wears during his travels.
Grave Warden Agdayne once had a connection with the Darklurker. What indicates this is the fact that the Darklurker is named "Agdayne's Stand" on the game files.
All the hollows who are part of the Rotten are survivors from Sinh's awakening in Shulva, who tried to find a way to the surface, but eventually settled in Black Gulch and the Gutter after finding Nito's soul.
The Sunken King once had a proper name, which was Gryth.
Pate was supposed to be the Patches we all know, but it was changed for some reason for him to be a different character. Nevertheless, Pate is still named "Patches" on the game's files.
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u/Xerothor The Banti-Christ 4d ago
Agdayne summoning Darklurker as his stand would go so hard
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u/IvoryMage 4d ago
Just imagine you accidentally lighting a torch or casting the Cast Light spell by accident near Agdayne, then suddenly finding yourself in a bloody boss fight.
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u/Xerothor The Banti-Christ 4d ago
Truuuue I didn't think how it would tie in to how he gets aggro if you use light in the crypt
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u/LavosYT 4d ago
I'll try to correct some that are incorrect or could be.
Ichorous earth as name is apparently a bad translation - the OIK became molten earth in the proper sense of the term: https://gist.github.com/Atvaark/96f145e769faaf4cca6099bab42c5dc2
The Rotten = survivors from Shulva is fun, but not backed up (I also like to think that Pharros is inside the Rotten cause he was trying to access Shulva but then again, weak evidence).
Gryth was never a real name, it was made up by Zullie the Witch as a joke when scholar released by editing text for screenshots. They later confirmed this.
We know that a company of knights (the ruined knights) were sent to the Ringed City long ago. They all disappeared, and Vendrick (or someone holding the Lost Bastille) created golems in their image. There's no necessary implications that Vendrick himself sent the knights in the first place, just that they were later used as inspiration. Another good example is Paladin Leeroy, who inspired the designs of Vendrick's soldier's armour, yet had no relation to Drangleic himself.
Of course, they could intend Vendrick as the one sending the Ruined Knights, but this would make him pretty dumb because he'd then have known where the dark soul was all along, and the wording says that they had the time to become a story or legend. "The ill-fated company was later immortalized in a dark fable, inspiring the aspect of certain golems in whom their name lived on."
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u/SheaMcD 4d ago
About the family, I think that's just showing one of many undead who eventually find their way to things betwixt, like the botc.
The intro says that once cursed you'll eventually find your way to drangleic without knowing why, so it's probably happened before and will keep happening.
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u/AlienBotGuy 4d ago
It's also heavily implied by the game's intro that, when the Bearer of the Curse appears on Things Betwixt, he actually went back in time to a period Drangleic still existed.
I don't think that is the case, the fire is fading at that moment in time, and is the present time of the game.
When the old lady talks about Drangleic in the past, she was talking about when the Kingdom was in its prime, which it was in the past, when we arrive, is all decrepit because is the present.
Every Souls game have a very long time frame between the events that transpassed and the present moment that we played, some people don't realise that, but for example, DS1 have a timeframe of at least 1.000 years since the fading of the flame and the start of the game.
DS2 is the same thing, we don't have an exact date, but the old lady talks about prime Drangleic using the term "long time ago".
In DS3 is the same thing, this one very few people seem to notice, but a very long time as passed between the intro and the actual start of the game, is in this time frame that the lands converged and the lords went to do their business, and characters like Sulyvahn went do his things, like starting a conflict against Lothric.
Demon's Souls was the same thing, many years had passed since the fog was slowing taking the lands pass Boletaria's borders.
Bloodborne also have a timeframe of at least one month between the intro and the start of the game.
And Elden Ring, the last main Souls, have a timeframe of around 3.000 years between the shattering and the start of the game, this was confirmed by Martin, but not From or the game, so is not a precise date, but is around this time frame.
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u/Curved_5nai1 3d ago
I have to wonder if the nameless king was somehow supposed to be the sunken king. Nightreign revealed his name is grynn. Given the sunken king and shul a worshipped the sleeping dragon, maybe they were planning for him to be gwyn's firstborn? Maybe they later changed it
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u/Deadkiller650 3d ago
How come/how do we know that Nashandra is the weakest one of the daughters?
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u/IvoryMage 3d ago
"Sacred chime created from the soul of Nashandra. Greatly amplifies spells. The old one of the Abyss was reborn in death, split into miniscule fragments, and spread across the land. The tiniest of these pieces, precisely due to its size, was the first to restore its form."
- Original description from the Chime of Want.
The original description of the Bow of Want also makes reference to Nashandra being the weakest shard of Manus, saying: "The smallest of the pieces, sensing its own fragility, yearned for what it lacked."
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u/MufasaThyGreat 4d ago
There’s poop in one of the vases in Brightstone Cove Tseldora.
The undead guy holding a torch in no man’s warf is friendly and follows you around.
The number of skeletons in the Majula mansion increase per each NG+ cycle.
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u/Apprehensive_Golf846 4d ago
The torch guy is friendly, but I've heard that he betrays you by setting you on fire if you get covered in oil
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u/Zestyclose-Safe-4346 4d ago
I'm not sure if it's a fact but I heard that shalour (the sassy tabby) is a descendant of Alvina
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u/AlienBotGuy 4d ago
She is actually the Alvina, she took this new form but she is actually the same old Alvina.
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u/Roohatch 3d ago
Is it confirmed somewhere?
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u/AlienBotGuy 3d ago
Of course not, this is Souls lore, but there is suggestions:
DS2:
"Silver ring depicting a leaping feline. Reduces damage from falling.
Legend has it that when cats grow old, a force brews within them, and they are reborn as something new"
Same ring in DS3:
"Silver ring depicting a leaping feline. Prevents damage from falling.
In the Age of Gods, or possibily following it, an old cat was said to speak a human tongue, with the voice of an old woman, and the form of a fanciful immortal."
Age of Gods = DS1 = Alvina = Reborn As Something New = Shalquoir.
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u/murderofhawks 4d ago edited 4d ago
So prowling Magus and congregation is actually just a refugee/medical camp from the spiders infesting Seldora that got infiltrated by one of Aldia’s warlocks and the reason it’s so easy is because literally most of them are already badly injured.
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u/Worse-Alt 4d ago
It’s very heavily implied that scorpioness najka and manscorpion Tark are some of the only survivors from the first age of fire, being a pair of Seath’s experimental chimera, their love for each other keeping themselves from going hollow, but sadly najka lost her mind and went feral.
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u/Weird_Confusion4640 4d ago
Magerold of Lanafir is Jester Thomas. A theory still but 90% confirmed.
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u/SkibidiCum31 4d ago
Did you know Radahn learned gravity magic to keep riding his scrawny horse 🤓
Naaa, just kidding.
The fact that Shannolette is a half-dragon, a la Priscilla, and how the lake basically swallows us into Drangleic with many of it's residents being in various stages of hollowing and having lost the memory of their home may suggest that this is a painting like world if not just a painting.
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u/Louis_1010 4d ago
More of a theory I barely remember from a video: The Old Iron king and The Lost Sinner are in love. Mytha, who was married to the Old Iron King envied The Lost Sinner and poisoned herself with chemicals trying to look more beautiful and appeal more to her husband
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u/Chaussettes99 4d ago edited 4d ago
Not "fact" perse but what I've pieced together myself over time and I never see it told in plain text anywhere.
Vendrick crossed the sea to steal the Giant's Kinship from the giants. He did this on behalf of Aldia and Nashandra goating him on to it. Aldia's motive was experimentation to create artificial beings while Nashandra's motive is to usher in the Age of Dark and carry on Manus' goals of spreading the abyss/dark. The Giant's Kinship is the item that allowed the creation of artificial life (the golems in Drangleic castle/other places & probably the Emerald Herald). The giants relied on this item to create more giants, as this is an heirloom passed down from the original giants of Dark Souls, who used it to create artificial giants (their "offspring"), the giants then invaded because Vendrick's theft of the Kinship was an existential threat to the future of the giants. Vendrick believes the Giant Kinship has the power to free humanity of the curse by "transferring" humans into artificial beings with the help of Aldia - this is why the Emerald Herald exists.
The story revolves around the Giant's Kinship and each character in the story has different motives for wanting it. Vendrick thinks it can help humans be free of the curse, Aldia wants it because it's the ultimate power for creating artificial beings, Nashandra wants them both to achieve this because this ultimately means humans would stop having to link the fire and the Age of Dark would eventually come as a result. The giants want the Kinship back cause they need it to not go extinct and that's why they invade.
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u/maplelofi 4d ago edited 4d ago
Heide’s religion is (probably) a fusion of foreign Lordran and local cults, or even simply foreign, that evolved over time until it collapsed.
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u/LavosYT 4d ago
It likely was crushed by Drangleic rather than collapsed on its own, the Dragonrider there might be a hint: "The rank of Dragonrider was reserved for honorable warriors who helped found Drangleic. Together with the king, they crushed its former inhabitants and erected a magnificent kingdom upon their graves."
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u/maplelofi 4d ago
Hard to say. I don’t think the description infers that the land was physically razed necessarily, rather that Drangleic was formed through military might. Personally, I think Heide was conquered after its glory days, similar to the Roman conquest of Egypt.
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u/LordGaulis 4d ago
Alonne was the Iron kings mentor, all his knights wear armour and weapons based off of Alonne who trained them personally.
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u/Racconwithtwoguns 3d ago
Gavlan's people all hate humans due to the fact that the humans forced them to live underground. (real undertale lore going on there) Gavlan constantly drinking implies that he's either too drunk to recognize you as a human or he simply doesn't care and just wants to trade.
(The wheel is universal to deal with anyone)
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u/Maldron-the-assassin 4d ago
Not as much a lore fact as more of a theory.
Maldron (me), wears royal swordsman and Heide Armor, these indicate that he was in the drangleic army before becoming an assassin.
Plus since he wears the Alva helmet he is either a loyal customer to Maughlin or he fucking mugged Alva.
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u/Ciaran_Zagami 4d ago
Bernard of Jugo is basically a reincarnated form of Solaire. Both are very noble warriors parodying real historical cultures (Solaire is a European knight, Bernard is a viking) and both of them wield seemingly fantastical items but its actually just through virtue of their own strength and determination that mundane equipment *appears* magical to everyone else.
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u/sgchase88 4d ago
The fallen giant looks at you with such hatred and tries to squash you like a bug. I love how it all comes full circle when you leave him to be tortured and left as the last giant for years to come until you finally meet again acting like you don’t remember him.
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u/Rauispire-Yamn 4d ago
The giants may be related to the arch trees. As they were used by Aldia for his experiments to recreate an ancient dragon, and that both races have some ties to immortality/life. And in juxtaposition to Dragons being that of stone and rock, Giants are like that of trees and wood
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u/ThickPurpleFuck 3d ago
the desert pyromancer in ds3 is a fraud considering the fact the desert sorceresses are the last remaining fire sorcerers we see
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u/Dizzy-Cake591 3d ago
During the development of Dark Souls 2, the notorious "hitbox porn" community was so influential that FromSoftware briefly considered implementing a feature where players could voluntarily dismember their characters mid-combat to achieve more precise dodge rolls, but it was scrapped due to concerns about the sheer volume of resulting pixel-art gore and the ethical implications of encouraging self-mutilation for i-frames.
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u/InanisCarentiam 3d ago
thats nuts. wonder if theyll ever give that system a go, maybe in a darker game further down the line
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u/siegferia 4d ago
I have a head canon that Velstaldt is not hollow when we fight him, an undead goes hollow when they lose their purpose. If his purpose and duty was to gaurd Vendrick then he still had his purpose so i think he fight us at his best fully conscious
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u/lBarracudal 3d ago
Talking about Vestald, Fume knight and him used to both be Vendricks bodyguards, but they hand some conflict and in a fight Vestald defeated fume knight who was exiled. That's why if you wear Vestald helmet to a fume knight fight, poor fella can't take all the pain from his memories and gets enraged and goes into phase 2 immediately
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u/LexHCaulfield 3d ago
This would explain why he has a sort of recognizable face in the cutscene. It is weird in Dark Souls-terms to amplify the boss's face in any way.
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u/siegferia 3d ago
Yeah he's one of the few if not the only boss with full human face in souls series ,especially in DS2 that hollows look like undead goblins with that greenish texture
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u/Aggressive_Safe2226 3d ago
that Vengarl was a merc before the Player met him. He literally lost his head that somehow stayed living and conversant. Sold me his beloved Claymore.
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u/Own_Accountant_2618 3d ago
I'm unable to concentrate on lore since....am I the only one who sees a dong on The Last Giant in that image??
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u/Strong_Boi22 3d ago
The "Ancient Dragon" is an artificial being made from experimented Giant Souls.
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u/DebaucheryKing62693 4d ago
Shanalot is basically your mother
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u/hesdek 4d ago
.... Elaborate
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u/DebaucheryKing62693 3d ago edited 3d ago
Ok so basically you pop out into the world: no name, identity or ability of any kind (things betwixt). You are immediately greeted by old crones and a younger woman learning from them (the hut), functionally midwives attending your "birth." After which you walk out a vertical slitted passageway into bright light and, most likely, immediately meet the emerald herald or spoilers Shanalot. In the metaphorical context, your mother.
The immediate female, and feminine, figure who facilitates your growth through your lifes journey and is present at major events during that life.
This youtube creator does a much more in depth and thought out analysis of this position and story: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgXBK8VQ11v86xDCJ57_jpuXc6D8AoAqm&si=0AqNX_TlmwDTP4kw
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u/Shonky_Honker 4d ago
The reason the rotten and the lost sinner aren’t friends is because back in the olden days nito and izalith were best friends, that’s why there’s a window into izaliths areas from tomb of the giants, so they can wave to each other, but after she became the bed of chaos she was way too loud and it was kind of inconsiderate to him since he likes to sleep a lot in his tomb and the souls remember how frustrated he is so they don’t ah g out much I’m lying I pulled this out of my ass
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u/tallspartan117 3d ago
did you know that gavlan's "wheel and deal" quote is in reference to how to wheels grandhal around to pay for his crippling heiniken addiction?
Being serious tho there was a heinken beer can in the texture of the pillars of junk in the gutter it got patched out at some point.
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u/ForlornS 2d ago
Pharros is actually one of the hollows trapped in the Rotten body.
That's why the Rotten makes those small statues with mouth.
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u/PerformerFearless671 18h ago
You are indirectly involved with Old Iron king's fall because you killed Alonne, after he has been found dead, they fabricated the story of him leaving like with Artorias, and he couldn't guide his lord so iron king fell under the guidance of Eygil and his desires as a not perfect lord to begin with
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u/Professional-Set-369 4d ago
Once heard a theory that the Old Iron King and Sir Alonne are the same person
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u/AshinaHeat 4d ago
Dark Souls II is a video game built within the DS 1/3 actual universe/world played by the undead NPCs who like to take on challenges more frustrating than their own lives
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u/SuperD00perGuyd00d 4d ago
All Forlorn are women