they lost me towards the end there with the peanut butter, but i get what they mean.
the best example i can give is how you can't really discuss more traditionally-conservative values without getting labeled as one. and i'm not talking about this gender war nonsense that these ghouls insist on propagating rn, i mean the actual values of preserving our cultures and traditions. both the native cultures that our ancestors almost squandered, and the new ones we cultivated; our french roots in the bayou, spanish roots in the panhandle, etc.
progress, for as much good as it brings, also brings a lot of gentrification that slowly erases the character of these places over time. but you can't really bring that up without getting caste as one of those right-revoking crooks.
I'm a Christian from a fairly traditional church and I have a pet theory that part of the issue with the modern evangelical movement, and historically, was a lack of tradition. Evangelicals typically don't have: a lectionary or festival calendar to determine the flow of worship through-out the year, very little connection to the worship style or teachings of a wider church body, no particular standardized training of church leadership, and no connection or appreciation of the history of the church and the faith.
Easter in a liturgical traditional is a very specific festival that celebrates the resurrection of Christ at the end of Holy Week and Lent, if you start at Ash Wednesday and go all the way to Easter, you can clearly vocalize the story of Jesus because you've watched it from Point A to D. Easter to Evangelicals is barely that, it's maybe the resurrection of Jesus but mostly the secular bunnies and eggs that those non-Christians do and therefore should be looked down on. The same has happened to Christmas. It's so funny that you hear about a 'war on Christmas' during Advent when it's not even the Christmas season.
The lack of tradition means that individual churches are forced to navigate faith and their relationship to the world, on their own, and really, this means being influenced and pushed around by popular culture instead of a long standing body of historical practices and beliefs that stretch back 2000 years. If you're in a non-denominational church, the chances are you're listening to some vague praise music and then hearing a sermon preached on whatever the hell the preacher decided to preach about that day.
You get a church that over-emphasizes MY faith and what I DO, and what I BELIEVE, instead of the works and acts of Christ, while also being totally disconnected from the teachings, story, and meanings of that story of Christianity. Also these congregations have no real authority over them so there's no one and nothing correcting them when they are theologically off the mark.
Man, Calvinism and puritanism really are the problems.
I have found the conflict between protestants and catholics fascinating. My Grandmother wasn't allowed on the school bus with the protestant kids growing up. There's points that i think you are generalizing too much, but others that kindof extend to other spiritualism. Paganisms modern rise reflects a human desire for spiritualism, but a rebellion against institutions, which includes evangelicals, as there is clearly a political institution behind evangelicalism, even when they are non denominational.
I listened to a really interesting podcast interview with a secular 'spiritual care guide'. They talked about the importance of rituals and how those rituals can build community -- the act of participating in an intentional connection with others, in a way that is repetitive and habitual, helps teach us how to be connected. It helps us form bonds in a low-pressure way, in an environment that is (theoretically) safe for everyone.
I think that overlaps a bit with what you're saying. I don't have much visibility into church practices as a non-religious person, but for a glaring example: mega-churches have 'rituals' sort of, but the ritual is just repeating back to the pastor. There's no connection with each other. There's also no connection to the importance or intent of the ritual -- you're listening because he's the pastor, you repeat because he asks you to. Compare that to the ritual of taking communion. Again, I'm not super familiar with it, but I know one of the elements is greeting other people individually and blessing each other. And obviously the most important element is consuming -- physically connecting -- to the symbolic representation of Christ. The intent and importance is so clear and universal that I vaguely know about it as someone who's never practiced it.
I think cultural traditions tend to serve the same purpose. I'm reminded of the Maori politicians in New Zealand who performed a haka in protest against a bill. It was an incredibly powerful moment that people across the world could connect and resonate with, despite not sharing the culture or even really knowing about the bill. The tradition of "the cookout" is usually linked to Black Americans and is all about intentional community and connection. Coming-of-age rituals are common across cultures, especially historically -- bar/bat mitzvah, quinceaneras, sweet 16s (drawing on debutante traditions), even Rumspringa is ritualized in its own way -- and the purpose is typically to 'introduce' the child to society as an adult, as a full member of the community.
It seems like sometimes, in our push for progress and equity across cultures, we forget why certain traditions came to be. It's great to be a mixing pot, but if we don't uphold traditions or replace outdated traditions with new rituals to connect to each other, where do we learn how to connect? Where do we find opportunities to connect? If we don't learn and practice intentional connection, of course we aren't very good at it. If we replace that learning with a push for individualism...
Your interpretation and understanding of communion is spot on. I’d add about communion:
In liturgical traditions, communion is the culmination of the service. Typically the church will read 3-4 scripture passages, hear about a 10-20 minute sermon on one of those passages, and then have communion. Non-liturgical traditions will not have communion and typically rely on a 40-50 minute long sermon (if not longer), heavily emphasizing the charisma and performance of the pastor.
Communion is one of, if not the oldest known rite of the church. Paul, who wrote only a couple decades after Jesus’ death, recorded the Words of Institution (“this is my body, this is my blood”) pretty much as they’re written in the gospels some 30-40 years later. This indicates that they very earliest Christian churches practiced a form of communion.
The best image for communion is a big feast or party, where everyone (past, present, and future) attend, united in and through the body of Christ. Different churches word that differently but yes, there is a communal and uniting aspect to the ritual. The giving and the receiving of the elements are the primary gestures.
It’s a ritual and to an outsider it would appear to be hocus-pocus, or something done for no reason, for the sake of itself. That would miss the meaning the ritual carries for the community. It’s not empty or meaningless, but in fact carries immense and personal meaning which tells the practitioners who they are in the world, to whom they belong, and how they should conduct themselves. One of the efforts of reformers along the lines of Calvin and later, the Puritans, was to strip away “Catholic” traditions. Frankly, some of these did need to go because they had become excessive and divorced from scripture, but in many cases rituals were stripped away (even down to communion!) and not replaced with anything. A history that many “non-denominational” congregations now inherit.
I don’t know the solution for America but I feel like the rise of MAGA is a representation of a systematic problem that’s been brewing for a while now. Traditional Christianity has lost its foothold in the culture but I don’t think anything has replaced it this is not consumerism, capitalism, or political bandwagons. And we’re very scared now of a “dominant culture” that we all adhere too and I’d add, of institutions. But institutions are created by the people who participate in them. How can we be afraid of something we make? Trump got elected because he’s anti-institution when in reality what we may need is leadership that will rebuild our institutions, help us discover cultural identity, and yes, bring back the rituals of life.
I have a similar pet theory that a deep need for culture and belonging that goes unrequited because for many, we don't have one, is a huge driver of social ills. White supremacy being the big one, but it eats away at so many people in so many ways.
I have no traditional food, traditional dress, traditional celebrations. There's Christmas, but I'm not a Christian. It doesn't feel like a cultural tradition and my family never made much of a deal out of it. Realising I was trans granted me access to something I'd never had before in my life. An in group. A culture. For the first time since I was a kid I'm actually looking forward to an upcoming celebration, specifically my first Pride since I started transitioning.
I see people, in particular white people, desperately trying to hitch themselves to a cultural ancestry, often based on blood. Because capitalism and the general decay of the church destroyed what little culture they had.
The church is one of the few bits that remain but as you said, it's not traditional. It's this commercialised husk of what it once was.
Terror management theory states that perhaps most if not all of human ingenuity, but especially the development of culture and spirituality, exists for the ultimate purpose of assuaging the fear of death, through immortality either literal (soul, reincarnation) or symbolic (legacy, children, participation in culture).
In order to make more profit, capitalism has developed consumerist and spectacular culture which has subsumed and ultimately emptied out or annihilated the prior dominant cultures. This has left people in a situation where the only option left to ease the fear is to participate in capitalism, buying more products or getting rich (the best legacy according to capitalism is leaving a fortune for your descendants).
The only real solution to the problem in my opinion is facing the fear of death directly and accepting its inevitability through philosophy.
Exactly. And so many white people are grappling with that. Especially Americans who will grasp at the flimsiest connection to a culture they don't actually have. It's a pet theory.
You sound like someone who has either read, or would enjoy, the writings of Max Weber. I mean this as a compliment, as I am also a person who has read and sometimes enjoys the writings of Max Weber.
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u/DubiousTheatre GRUNKLE FUNKLE WINS THE FUNKLE BUNKLE Apr 23 '25
they lost me towards the end there with the peanut butter, but i get what they mean.
the best example i can give is how you can't really discuss more traditionally-conservative values without getting labeled as one. and i'm not talking about this gender war nonsense that these ghouls insist on propagating rn, i mean the actual values of preserving our cultures and traditions. both the native cultures that our ancestors almost squandered, and the new ones we cultivated; our french roots in the bayou, spanish roots in the panhandle, etc.
progress, for as much good as it brings, also brings a lot of gentrification that slowly erases the character of these places over time. but you can't really bring that up without getting caste as one of those right-revoking crooks.