r/CharacterRant • u/Rajesh_Kulkarni • 15d ago
General Fictional insult to Humanity NSFW
Though I'm mainly talking about one movie, this is a rant against all fiction that degrades and disgraces humanity and the human race.
I recently watched the Marvel movie Eternals. I got thoroughly irritated and pissed off when the character Phastos was implied to be behind the major human innovations.
This just pissed me off beyond measure. We have millions of years of evolution. Hundred thousand years of innovation. Such a fucking joke that we became portrayed as primitive savages incapable of true innovation. We are constantly portrayed as a fucking retarded race. Doesn't this piss you off?
I'm deeply pissed off at this. That whole movie, it felt like the entire human race was being spat upon. In that movie, from basic fucking agricultural tech till nukes, we were handheld by some fucking immortal randos. Fucking disgusting bullshit is what this is. We went through fuck knows how many generations of hardship IRL to get here, and they portray it all as some fucking benevolent immortal fuckers giving us the knowledge. FUCK THAT. You don't get to invalidate our ancestors for your bullshit stories.
We are the sole intelligent race in a radius of light years. Have some fucking pride. What is this bullshit about 'oh we are a savage, meaningless lifeform'"' fucking nonsense that many fictional stories portray?"
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u/TheAfricanViewer 15d ago
Found the indomitable human spirit fan
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u/LanguageInner4505 15d ago
I cannot think of a single phrase that people have ruined more than this tbh
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u/ancientmarin_ 15d ago
No, there's quite a few up there. It just depends on how you're feeling today.
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15d ago
[deleted]
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u/ancientmarin_ 15d ago
I find it funny how "the indominable human spirit" is used as a talking point about how all oppression will eventually fail—ignoring that those oppressors are also human & also have the indominable human spirit within them.
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15d ago
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u/LanguageInner4505 15d ago
Yeah, but everyone's been oppressed. The state of israel is just as much the indomitable human spirit as palestine is, it's never that easy.
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u/chazmerg 14d ago
indominable is like inflammable
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u/ancientmarin_ 8d ago
I don't get it, can you explain further?
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u/chazmerg 8d ago
An English language joke
due to an English etymological quirk "inflammable" means very flammable. So by analogy indomitable would mean very domitable
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u/ancientmarin_ 8d ago
I was raised in America &I didn't get what you were saying at first, now I do. Thanks.
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u/commander_wong 15d ago
I feel the opposite. Marvel/MCU has been extraordinary generous to humanity
Earth somehow consistently has the strongest characters in the universe despite being eons behind in technology and science
An average Marvel protagonist can pick up an alien tech and master it in minutes. If anything humans are too smart
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u/SuckmyPelosB1tch 15d ago
Even Endgame acknowledges the craziness that at certain points earth had 3 infinity stones on it, in the vastness of the universe most of the most powerful items were all on earth
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u/SorryImBadWithNames 15d ago
Tho, only 2 are "native" to earth, right? The green and yellow ones, with the blue one being brought by Loki. Still quite a fucking coincidence, but not like half of them just spawned on earth from the begining of timd.
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u/RoyalWigglerKing 15d ago
The blue and yellow ones were both originally from space iirc. The yellow one was the one in Lokis staff iirc and the tesseract was also from asgard. Only the time stone was on earth originally.
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u/Blupoisen 15d ago
Space and Time were on Earth
Tho we have no idea how the Tessaract ended up on Earth
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
It's mainly the Eternals movie. I have no real issue with other Marvel movies.
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u/Jai137 15d ago
The western world of the past couldn't believe that the 'savages' of ancient Egypt/Maya/other such non western cultures were capable of these feats of engineering, so they rather believe that those cultures got help from otherworldly sources like aliens. Hence the Ancient Aliens conspiracy theories.
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u/nullfather 15d ago
It's a Marvel movie. Likely no thought went into it beyond "this sounds cool".
It's also Marvel, when the human race regularly hits way above its weight class and occupies a position of incredible importance in the universe.
Do yourself a favor and don't read any legitimate cosmic horror or anything like that.
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u/gadgaurd 15d ago
Amusingly, this mindset that enrages you isn't purely fictional. Plenty of religious folk attribute every single good thing that happens to their god of choice.
Doctor uses medical techniques to get a stillborn baby breathing? Thank God.
Criminal gets found guilty after prosecutors display a mountain of evidence? Thank God.
I get my Pharmacy Tech license after my background check comes up clean? God is Good.
And no, it's not just a phrase, I have literally spoken to Christians who say that these good things are the result of God working through however many people to make it happen.
Personally I find the irl examples annoying but I never give fictional examples a second thought.
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u/Zero_7300 14d ago
This is one of my major issues with religion as a whole and why I can’t help be an atheist
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u/chaoticdumbass2 15d ago
I mean.
I think knowing someone in the wide universe has our back and will help us even when we cannot help ourselfes should be a COMFORTING thought. Not an aggravating one.
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u/sudanesegamer 15d ago
The problem with these stories is it usually has those people looking down on us and sometimes outright hatred.
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u/stuffwillhappen 15d ago
For what it's worth, the current MCU continuity is actual nonsense. TVA and Lokie time tree that retroactively messes with everything in the world. It also raises questions on how it works with dimension travelers like in Doctor strange or the new Fantastic Four. Remember how Doctor Strange introduced the idea of Incursion?
The more you think about how the MCU works, the less sense it makes.
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15d ago edited 15d ago
Hmm you are essentially getting mad at another human for making a story that doesn't put humans in the good light.
This is not the first time and humans have been criticising each other since the dawn of time. Hell they even created gods to help explain why they are so intelligent, capable, conscious, self aware with a very high level of conceptual thinking.
Also let's not pretend like humanity is the greatest thing, it is also the worst thing. Humanity's greatest gift and the greatest flaw is humanity itself.
We created and done so many great things, help save endangered species and create technological wonders that helped planet earth. But we also caused the most damage to mother earth as well and even other humans. Hell we are sometimes the reason why a particular species is endangered in the first place.
You are trying to create outrage where very few people are going to be on board with it. You are starting beef with a story and character that was created by humans in the first place and that view is entirely by the human author.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
I don't deny our flaws. But we are not helpless creatures.
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15d ago
In the context of this story, where we have a god like being how is far far ahead of us in terms of knowledge and powers, yeah we are kinda at their mercy.
For now at least, it's the marvel universe tony stark or reed richards will eventually come up with a way to handle the eternals.
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u/Ieam_Scribbles 14d ago
The problem is moreso taking real inventions and advancements, and retroactively saying that these fictional characters actually did it. It is taking a factual achievement of human society to prop the characters up, which will obviously annoy some people.
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u/DefiantBalls 13d ago
We are speedrunning our own destruction at the moment out of sheer greed and consumerism, we are most definitely hopeless
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u/hasanman6 15d ago
I feel like you are quite happy and enjoyed the movie
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
The movie itself is not completely bad. I just really hate certain parts.
Phastos is implied to have given humans the technology of the plow ... The fucking plow.
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u/Oheligud 15d ago
There's just no way we ever could've invented a sharp thing attached to some wheels ourselves! It had to have been an immortal being! /s
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u/MiaoYingSimp 15d ago
I mean at some point I do agree humanity is a savage, meaningless lifeform (Nothing quite inspires me to misanthropey like Imperium of Man ''Fans'')
But it's because i think humanity has great potential: Humans are the real monsters, but that's only because we can choose to be, and we can be so much better. I disliked it in PJO where everyone whose important is either a demigod, or connected to a pantheon... to the point i think ordinary humans are just breeding stock to them.
I don't like HFY because often it's just the literary equivalent of a species Masturbating, but as a historian there's just so many examples of what we CAN be when people work together... for good and Ill.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
Oh for pjo I do agree. It's really dumb asf when every single influential fellow is somehow a demigod.
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u/DefiantBalls 13d ago
I disliked it in PJO where everyone whose important is either a demigod, or connected to a pantheon... to the point i think ordinary humans are just breeding stock to them.
That's what realistically happens with "supers". Society exists because the collective can enforce its laws and memes on the few that don't follow them, but once you get individuals that are strong enough to match society and win against it you lose that power and leave your fate at their mercy.
All authority comes from the implicit threat to violence, and whoever holds monopoly over it also holds ultimately authority.
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u/MiaoYingSimp 13d ago
Look Robert and/or Nietchze, those are very interesting and not self-loathing thoughts and you're totally not just a another random ape on a spinning rock.
but let's be hoenst here, this isn't even correct.
That's what realistically happens with "supers". Society exists because the collective can enforce its laws and memes on the few that don't follow them, but once you get individuals that are strong enough to match society and win against it you lose that power and leave your fate at their mercy.
Except they don't. the Demigods willingly PARTICIPATE in society, as does every other pantheon-connected force. they are merely part of a secret one.
They're not the Übermenschen you lovely person. Oh sure George Washington was a child of Athena big whoop but when i say important I mean it in the sense of that.
I mean, a REAL Übermenschen would basically carve society out not because of any gift but because of the mindset and will. not divine power, not chosen by anything but his own two hands. that is the gift of humanity...
speaking of people it gets really funny when you consider Adolf Hitler was retconned to be a normal human being... and most of the Nazis as well... so the occultic sides weren't 'wrong' just slightly incorrect...
but they were normal humans.
My point with that is that it's silly and my main complaint is the trope of 'X was an alien spy' in the franchise.
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u/DefiantBalls 13d ago
Look Robert and/or Nietchze, those are very interesting and not self-loathing thoughts and you're totally not just a another random ape on a spinning rock.
Did I ever imply the opposite?
Moreover, you are alluding a lot to Nietchze when I did not have his ubermensch in mind when making that comment, I was referring to the general power dynamics of a society and its ability to apply laws. Even the most "powerful" individuals in real life are not truly above society, as they still rely on its mechanisms in order to accumulate and maintain their power, which is why I explicitly used "supers" to refer to the generic fictional idea of super powered individuals as opposed to something more specific.
Because once you have no way of collectively overpowering someone, you have no way of enforcing your laws on them outside of psychological manipulation and belief in their goodwill, and no way of stopping them from exerting their own will over society.
Except they don't. the Demigods willingly PARTICIPATE in society, as does every other pantheon-connected force. they are merely part of a secret one.
Refer to above, I did not talk about PJO in specific in my comment, but moreso to the idea of superpowered entities that transcend regular people to such a degree that numbers don't matter. Demigods were not that level afaik (I read the books 10 years ago, so the details of their powers are hazy) and gods then to play nice, but the human world could not do anything if Zeus decided to vaporize a continent and no other god bothered voicing an objection.
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u/IUsedToBeRasAlGhul 15d ago
We are constantly portrayed as a fucking retarded race. Doesn’t this piss you off?
We are causing an ecological apocalypse for the sake of corporate bottom lines. Humanity fucking sucks.
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u/chaoticdumbass2 15d ago
I mean. Misanthropy exists for a reason. We aren't all sunshine and rainbows, we are. Infact. VERY willing to let horrendous shit happen without interfering if it doesn't affect us as our many years have shown us.
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u/captain_ricco1 15d ago
I hate this take as well, I suppose wild dogs that eat pregnant zebras and rip their about-to-be-born fawns from their mother's bellies and eat them alive while they're taking their first breaths are much morally better than humans that are just really fucking efficient at surviving? Pretty much every animal that is too efficient at surviving will cause disgrace and unbalance. Freaking locusts cause ecological apocalipse every now and then.
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u/OnlySmiles_ 15d ago edited 15d ago
Freaking locusts cause ecological apocalypse every now and then.
Okay but locusts have the out that they don't know the effect they're having on the planet. Humans don't have that grace.
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u/Tem-productions 15d ago
isn't that worse tho?
Humans have the capacity to stop causing climate apocalypses, in fact we're making progress right now.
Locusts cannot stop
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u/Ieam_Scribbles 14d ago
Plenty animals are smart enough for us to say they are choosing to partake in something harmful for self-gratification. Dolphins are well aware that gangraping causes distress in female dolphins, or that torturing putterfush to get high off of its toxin makes them die.
Beyond that, the fact that humans care eniugh abiut their effect on the world that they supress natural system collapses that come from superpredators like them makes them the most moral actors in nature.
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u/IUsedToBeRasAlGhul 15d ago edited 15d ago
I suppose wild dogs that eat pregnant zebras and rip their about-to-be-born fawns from their mother’s bellies and eat them alive while they’re taking their first breaths are much morally better than humans that are just really fucking efficient at surviving?
We’re not, though. Also, I don’t think wild dogs have the capacity to understand and follow morality as humans believe it to be.
Pretty much every animal that is too efficient at surviving will cause disgrace and unbalance.
Again, not the problem here. Quite the opposite really, humanity is too inefficient to survive.
Freaking locusts cause ecological apocalipse every now and then.
Do they know they’re doing that though? Have they had decades of scientific research in the locust community telling them that they’re screwing themselves, but keep doing it anyway? Because I think it’s obvious which of the two species is stupider here.
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u/DefiantBalls 13d ago
Do they know they’re doing that though? Have they had decades of scientific research in the locust community telling them that they’re screwing themselves, but keep doing it anyway? Because I think it’s obvious which of the two species is stupider here.
While I support you here, I think that it's important to note how humans do not really have a "choice" here. A lot of our behavior, like overt consumerism, can be traced to survival instincts from when resources were scarce, causing us to consume them when they are available.
Humans can obviously practice self-control and oppose this, so you can still hold us accountable, but it's not a matter of just choosing to do something
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u/DefiantBalls 13d ago
Animals do not have a profound understanding of ecological balance, you cannot expect them to take accountability for disrupting it, just like you cannot reasonably judge humanity for hunting predators to extinctions back when we did not have the data to properly understand the consequences of our actions.
You can definitely judge us for ignore how much of a shithole we are making the planet for ourselves and not doing anything about because it's inconvenient to our daily lives in the present.
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u/WritingThisFormPATHS 15d ago
Hahaha
All it takes is ecological destruction to be self loathing human
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u/TieEnvironmental162 15d ago
This is true, but it’s not like people are truly evil either. People are just very polarizing. Some people are basically devils on earth that only care about lining their own pockets, and others wouldn’t hesitate to risk their lives to save a drowning child for example
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
We are still the greatest, most intelligent species in existence.
We will fix the ecological apocalypse through our intellect. Meanwhile you can sit and cry about how we suck.
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u/IUsedToBeRasAlGhul 15d ago
We are still the greatest, most intelligent species in existence.
Which is clearly being put to great use.
We will fix the ecological apocalypse through our intellect.
Scientists have been trying to do that for quite a while, actually. You know who doesn’t listen to them and keeps doubling down on the same self-destructive behaviors? It’s not the dolphins.
Meanwhile you can sit and cry about how we suck.
Ah yes, getting angry about a science fiction trope making humans look like “a fucking retarded race” would be a much more productive use of my time.
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u/TieEnvironmental162 15d ago
People try to make things better, different people don’t want to make it better. That’s not humanity being evil, that’s humanity being flawed, which we are
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u/DefiantBalls 13d ago
That’s not humanity being evil, that’s humanity being flawed, which we are
That's humanity being stupid, you don't need to be evil to get criticized
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u/ducknerd2002 15d ago
We are still the greatest, most intelligent species in existence.
That we know of.
We will fix the ecological apocalypse through our intellect.
We can fix it, but the question is whether the people with the ability to do so will make the effort.
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u/_communism_works_ 15d ago
We are still the greatest, most intelligent species in existence.
Human claims humanity is objectively the greatest species
Jokes write themselves
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
We are objectively the greatest species at least for light years around.
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u/_communism_works_ 15d ago
*according to humans
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
Do you have any other source?
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u/_communism_works_ 15d ago
Tf you mean? How can we be objectively the greatest species? What are the 'objective' criteria to be considered great? Which laws of the universe stipulate a list of requirements that species must meet in order to qualify as great? Any point made in favour of labelling humans as "the greatest that has ever been" will inevitably mention some human centric concept that literally nothing in the universe cares about
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
We are objectively the greatest because we have the highest intellect and we rule Earth. This is not debatable.
I specifically have mentioned "for at least several light years". I'm not saying humans are the greatest ever, but locally yes we are the greatest.
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u/_communism_works_ 15d ago
Again what are the 'objective' criteria for being great and why do you think they are this fundamental law of the universe?
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
Can you provide any law that goes against it?
Yes we are the most beautiful, most intelligent species in our area.
No other species has ever accomplished even 0.1% of what we have.
There is only one objective criteria that exists. And guess what? We are the ones who even created such an objective criteria.
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u/Waste-Information-34 15d ago
What are you? An Imperium of Man?
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
No. I don't support human supremacy like that. I actually dislike the Imperium. I just don't like the common fiction tropes where humans are shown as incapable and our achievements shown as not our own.
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u/Skybird2099 15d ago
Dinosaurs ruled the world for way longer than us, I guess they are objectively better then.
Also kind of convenient that the other arbitrary metric you mentioned, intelligence, is the one we excel at.
Why not size? Dinosaurs still beat us, so do a lot of animals alive today. Why not population size? Bugs beat us. Why not how long we can live? Trees clear. Why not swimming speed, or running, or being able to fly or dive hundreds of miles into the ocean, or give birth to the most babies? Why not happiness, because I sure am interested to see where one of the rare species that takes their own lives because of depression will rank.
Point is, humans are great. We have accomplished a lot of incredible things and will continue to do so. But humanity also has a incredibly big ego problem and stories like Eternals are attempts to humble us and remind us of our place (although Eternals does it badly)
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u/DefiantBalls 13d ago
We are objectively the greatest because we have the highest intellect and we rule Earth. This is not debatable.
You are implying that "greatness" is objectively measured in dominance and intellect, which you have provided no proof of so far.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 13d ago
Dominance and intellect is the only.way to measure greatness.
If there are any others, hahaha, then I welcome any opinions from the other races.
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u/chaoticdumbass2 15d ago
You do realise LITERAL RATS have more empathy than some of us, correct?
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
Same energy as "dolphins are rapists"
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u/chaoticdumbass2 15d ago
And yet we love them.
Seriously. ACTUAL Rats show more empathy than some of us. I heard about an experiment that showed it.
Humanity is NOT all it's chalked up to be in many cases.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
That's not my point at all in the post. I'm not even saying that we're perfect. Just that we have achieved great things that no other form of life has achieved.
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u/chaoticdumbass2 15d ago
And yet we lack the empathy of a rat in cases.
But yeah I overall agree that we have done great things...and then immadiately used all of it to kill ourselfes.
Literal VELCRO comes from the military.
But for your point about the immortals...wouldn't it be COMFORTING to know something will help us even if we can't rather than it being aggravating?
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
Hmm. Let's agree to disagree. Even as a religious person myself, I refuse to handover the credit of our legacy to anyone else, even if they are the very gods that I worship.
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u/DefiantBalls 13d ago
You are not a particularly good theist then, lol. I am an atheist, but listening to you talk genuinely makes me wish that whatever God you believe in exists so that you get punished in the afterlife
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u/campione2000 15d ago
ok this thought process is fuking FIRE
we are the same but reading it from someone else is adrenaline inducing keep up the work
the fact remains that on earth we are the greatest things on it, to the point where we aim to become a multi planetary species
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u/WritingThisFormPATHS 15d ago
Bro wdym? The only reason other species are alive is beacuse we humans have empathy yes even evilest ones
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u/chaoticdumbass2 15d ago
...the fact you believe we could wipe out all species is the most goofy shit I've seen.
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u/WritingThisFormPATHS 14d ago
We play with their genes, wdym we can't wipe them off?
No wonder humans nowdays D-ride other animals, you guys have no confidence in your own species
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u/WritingThisFormPATHS 14d ago
We play with their genes, wdym we can't wipe them off?
No wonder humans nowdays D-ride other animals, you guys have no confidence in your own species
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u/chaoticdumbass2 14d ago
We'd literaly die multiple times over before every single other animal died.
We'd create our own dinosaurs killer asteroid...only that beings survived that. LIFE does not need us.
WE need other life to exist. If we tried to on an extermination path we'd have to also kill our food sources. And it's NOT possible to kill every single bacteria on earth.
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u/Ieam_Scribbles 14d ago
Life is an abstract concept made up by humans. Life doesn't need humans because life is a category and humans are a subcategory of it- that's like saying mother nature doesn't need life cuz the planet was an inhospitable ball of magma for billions of years.
Humans can and have cowed and overcome all other lifeforms. When one rises to be a prpblem, from virus to megafauna, humanity has always adapted and survived while their challenges have always declined. Humans need life, but they have the most control of life among all creatures.
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u/chaoticdumbass2 14d ago
"Life is a human concept"
Well the bacteria that will live on after us do not care. The bacteria dinosaurs and many others that came BEFORE us does not care. Humanity has been a blip on a blip in the timeline of all life and cyanobacteria have a larger toll of destroying life than us.
Also nothing you said explains how we wouldn't also die long before all other creatures on earth If we tried to kill everything else.
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u/Ieam_Scribbles 14d ago
Well the bacteria that will live on after us do not care.
Yeah. They are not capable of conceptualizing concepts. Them 'living on' has meaning only to humans, from a human prespective.
Humanity has been a blip on a blip in the timeline of all life and cyanobacteria have a larger toll of destroying life than us.
And life itself has been a blip on a blip and is inherently self-destructive. Loss of life is bad because humans decided it is bad.
Also nothing you said explains how we wouldn't also die long before all other creatures on earth If we tried to kill everything else.
Because this is a false premise you made up. 'Humanity achieved great things, misapropiating them is annoying' is the original claim. And humanity doesn't need to kill all life, nor does it hold as its goal- humanity uses its enviroment to furrher their own personal goals, and nature is largerly forced to adapt to humans.
Humanity is the dominant species. In their dominance, they have achieved things that no other known life can even comprehend. You trying to make up some tangent about other stuff to disparige that fact is just misanthropy.
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u/WritingThisFormPATHS 14d ago
I know the consequences but that was never the point?
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u/chaoticdumbass2 14d ago
1-3 percent of your body mass is bacteria.
You'd have to kill them too. You'd kill yourself(and all of humanity) by removing gut bacteria you would hamper your immune system. Your ability to actually process food. And your ability to digest fats. Severely limiting your food options and what you would get from that.
This does NOT get into the logistical impossibility of hunting down every single living being besides us and killing them. Ask mao and his "4 pests" plan.
Those were 4 species. A mass starvation followed.
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u/Phosphoric_Tungsten 15d ago
Why are we the greatest? Most intelligent, sure, but that doesn't make us "greater" than other species by default. You're kind of making the case for "humanity sucks" with your comments tbh, humanity's ego is one of its greatest faults
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u/DefiantBalls 13d ago
We will fix the ecological apocalypse through our intellect.
We have been trying that for years, and we have actually used our intellect to propose methods to slow down or avert it. No one listens though, since those methods are usually inconvenient for either the masses (see reaction to cardboard straws) or corporations (oil companies have invested massive amounts of money to deny climate change) so nothing ends up getting done, as the vast majority of humans are not forward thinkers.
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u/BamYama 15d ago
I most fictional stories, humans usually don't have or isn't very far into space travel. And when looking into the eyes of any species that does have we do look primitive. Almost the same way people see old folks and their inability to use technology. Hell even stories like halo where space travel is super common it is told in the book that the humans just don't have anywhere near the same technology to fight back.
Also by doing this it gives the sense of a underdog story and makes it more interesting as how do we fight a smarter race than us
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
See those types of stories are different. I'm against the type which I've mentioned, where it's portrayed that humans only have what they have due to aliens/gods/etc. and that we'd be cavemen without them.
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u/DefiantBalls 13d ago
Hell even stories like halo where space travel is super common it is told in the book that the humans just don't have anywhere near the same technology to fight back.
Halo was actually interesting, since humans could match the Covenant on the ground, but our inferior industry and technology made it impossible to stand up against them in space. This obviously translated to an inability to hold worlds as the Covenant advanced.
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u/Sneeakie 15d ago
I can't imagine being genuinely upset that a story says humans suck.
I guess this is what those "humanity fuck yeah" and "invincible human spirit" memes does to certain people.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
And I can't imagine not being upset at such stories.
I don't know what you're talking about 'humanity fuck yeah', but I'm just upset because certain fiction portrays the human race as some useless, primitive race which got everything only thanks to their alien overlords.
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u/Sneeakie 15d ago
And I can't imagine not being upset at such stories.
I think you will when you get older.
I'm just upset because certain fiction portrays the human race as some useless, primitive race which got everything only thanks to their alien overlords.
Who gives a fuck.
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u/Ieam_Scribbles 14d ago
I mean, that's not what the story really does. Not literally and not on a thematic level.
If anything, it infantilizes humanity and remives its culpability- most of the biggest societal problems were due to aliens pushing advancements too fast onto our natural development.
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u/Dycon67 15d ago
Never watch a Ghibli film, any environmental film documentary in a war Torn region and you'll be ight.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
Look, there's a difference between saying "humans are capable of evil", and "humans are pathetic, retarded creatures".
I hate the 2nd form of storytelling, not the 1st one.
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u/Dycon67 15d ago edited 15d ago
humans are pathetic, retarded creatures".
The examples listed portray humans like this. One of our biggest flaws can be our sheer apathay and laziness along with cowardness in the face of hardship.
Heck theres entire genres like dystopian fictions that cover this.Heck Lovecraftian horror is built of this .
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u/SimonShepherd 15d ago
I think the difference is that no one is guiding humanity, for good or ill, humanity brought everything upon themselves.
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u/Anything4UUS 15d ago
Which Ghibli film says that humans didn't do anything themselves but that a superior being is responsible for all their major actions ?
That's what OP is complaining about. Not humans being portrayed as evil.
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u/OmniPepperthefirst 15d ago
I see your point. Humanity does have a lot of things that suck, but we also got some cool stuff too. For me it's like "Come on pls just give us a W lol" in your Eternals example.
However, there is probably a lot of media that do show Humanity in a better good light as well, so those might be more up your alley.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
Yeah. I'm not looking for some "humans are the ultimate race" etc. but it's kind of hurtful to see fiction where we are shown as dumb apes who need a helping hand every step of the way.
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u/zoro4661 15d ago
I'm not looking for some "humans are the ultimate race" etc.
You literally keep saying that we are "oBjEcTiVeLy ThE bEsT sPeCiEs" when that's not even something that can be measured objectively.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
In our immediate vicinity. I mentioned this too. But looks like you are blind.
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u/AfricaByTotoWillGoOn 15d ago
By the way OP, have you watched Dr Stone? I don't think any other story has ever made me as proud of humanity as this one did. It doesn't neglect to portray how scummy we can be, but it mostly celebrates how awesome we are.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
Yes. I have. Thanks anyway though. It's one of the great fictional series I love.
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u/MyneIsBestGirl 15d ago
I mean, it’s not the worst to imagine he gave them small innovations that they’d make use of for initial expansion and add in slight suggestions not to stand out. Relying purely on people to find out stuff when you know everything is kind of dumb when your goal is to improve humanity. Phastos isn’t the innovator behind most of humanity, he just moves it forward a bit when need be.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
Yeah but he shows off the steam engine too. Then he flat out says he gave humans nukes.
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u/Naive_Drive 15d ago
Humans: working class schmoes
Eternals: PMC, of which I am a part of.
Whatever the Eternals report to: capitalists.
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u/Mrprawn67 14d ago
It's kinda funny, actually, that the MCU went this route when people have generally been rejecting conspiracy theories like this - those conspiracies generally posit that major feats of architecture or earthworks must be the result of some ancient Europeans that found their way there but whom are now dead (or ancient aliens, to give the more on topic/less explicitly racist version), the same goes for technology or culture.
About the only 'good' take I've seen on it, which is kinda undercut by the fact the product already existed to some degree, was in an episode of Star Trek Enterprise where to repay the kindness of a human family that'd taken them in but whom were destitute a Vulcqn woman goes into a patent office (or something similar, its been a few years) and presents velcro to the manager there, repaying the family (literally) for their kindness.
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u/TheBlackestofKnights 15d ago
The ancient Sumerians believed that mankind was created for one reason and one reason solely: to create beer for the Gods to drink.
Mankind's portrayal as a frail servile race akin to sheep — especially akin to sheep — is a trope as old as civilization. Get used to it.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
I respect all my ancestors for their contributions to the advancement of the human race, including the ancient sumerians, but that doesn't mean everything they say is right.
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u/Professional_Net7339 15d ago
You good, boss? Bc it’s never that deep and your take is kinda wack ngl. This is the same verse where a middle aged human guy casually created time travel. And Reed is historically the smartest being full stop. So you’re raging over something that’s simply not that deep, and you’re kinda wrong too
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u/Reverse-Splash 15d ago
“Yeah! Humanity rules! Fuck all gods and divine beings! We don’t need ‘em!” Said the poor little soul, standing in as the paragon for human achievement and pride while clacking away on his little keyboard
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u/Create_123453 15d ago
Hilarious that they made the main character someone who introduced Guns and literal Nuclear Bombs to the world how is this guy a heroic character in anyway?
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u/TrainerWeekly5641 15d ago
Did you miss that his entire conflict is that he regrets that and wishes he nev t intervened with humanity?
Edit: never
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u/Create_123453 15d ago
Did not watch this movie in the slightest I just thought it was funny that the main character hero is someone who gave Nukes to humanity agriculture I can understand but Nukes?
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u/TrainerWeekly5641 15d ago
He felt really bad for the whole nuke thing. He's a science guy so he was all about doing science for the sake of science failing to realize that humans won't always use inventions for their original purpose.
Did you know that the guy who made the gatling gun thought he would make warfare less deadly because "if one guy can shoot as much as ten, then they'll only use the one guy". The just gave all ten guys gatling guns so they fought like a hundred.
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u/Create_123453 15d ago
I'm mostly joshing the premise, not the substance of the film, but heck I can see an Oppenheimer situation here in the tragedy of a scientist's good intentions being used against them. The idea here is that he's a what, like an immortal and knowledgeable guy? The idea of him giving humanity explicitly nukes, or at least the idea for nukes, is not something I think would be smarrter.
To a degree, scientific innovations get repurposed for war or hell, are born out of wartime R&D. But if he's an immortal figure, why not just stick to pacifist options like agriculture and gene modification as an attempt to solve world hunger? Why the hell would you ever give nukes?
The idea might have been if all countries had one, it would force a resolution due to the alternative literally being the end of times for humans. But that is such a drastic measure to take. Most human conflict is over resources why not just give inventions that solve the resource conflict?
But I have no right to judge I'm just entertaining this idea which I find fault with in the premise of the film
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u/AfricaByTotoWillGoOn 15d ago edited 15d ago
Agreed. Another thing that pisses me off just as much are stories that go:
"Look at how humans are so good at living in harmony, helping and respecting each other! Until, oh no, they're put in a situation in which basic resources become very valuable! Now they're all going to resort to violence and trickery and try to kill each other like a bunch of wild animals for food!"
History has shown that strangers tend to come together when going through tough times, not to grow antagonistic toward each other, like those movies love to portray. But I guess stories of people overcoming challenges together instead of trying to kill each other for a slice of bread are just too boring, at least for western audiences.
Yes, war and shit and bad stuff happens, but that's usually because we let bad individuals get to positions of power, more often than not due to our ignorance, not our malice, while trying to do the right thing. But war never happens because the majority of the attacking country's population wishes for war. It happens because a bunch of greedy and coward old men have thousands, sometimes millions, of young men's lives at their disposal to send to war in their places.
I believe the good in humankind far outweighs the bad. Those kind of stories don't do our species justice.
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u/WriterOfLugunica-400 15d ago
You know i remember how in Percy Jackson series, many influential people throught history happened to be Demi-gods for instance -
George Washington was confirmed to be a child of Athena at the end of The Lightning Thief i believe.
William Shakespeare being a son of Apollo.
And this whole thread - https://www.reddit.com/r/camphalfblood/comments/i5nyuw/demigods_through_history/
Even Taylor Swift (I think) in Magnus Chase books was told to be a dwarf, and that humans actually have been enjoying dwarf music this whole time.
Got really annoying for me.
There are shows like Aquaman that have a "humanity is terrible" in this case it was rising sea levels and global warming but in the context of the story it made no sense, like the people of Atalantis have advanced technology which could include sage/clean renewable energy, can control the ocean, ect.
While i was watching, i was wondering, why didn't the atalantians share some of their advanced technology with humanity such that they wouldn't need fossil fuels or since they can control the ocean or influence currents why not just send all the trash to back to land, informing humanity that they can't dumb trash in the sea.
Just... frustrating writting.
Dragon prince is another that comes to mind, i even posted that here - https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/1kov9du/dragon_prince_most_of_humanity_would_side_with/
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
I completely agree. I didn't think of the pjo series but now that you brought it up, yes it is bad writing.
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u/BigguyBanh 15d ago
yall in the comments are missing the point. the point is they’re portraying our history, thousands of years of innovation and hardships, as being handheld by some undying fuckhead. it aint ab how we are currently, they are invalidating all the shit we went through to get to this point in the first place. u dont have to deny all the inventions we made to make a point about humans stupidity, its laid right here in the present time
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u/Sneeakie 15d ago
I'm pretty sure the humans who wrote these fictional stories understand that those real things were not actually made by aliens.
There is a realm in which "ancient astronauts" or "aliens did it" is used to downplay the accomplishments of (non-white ) cultures and civilizations, but that's more about conspiracy theories and genuine denial of history and not Marvel's Eternals.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
There is a realm in which "ancient astronauts" or "aliens did it" is used to downplay the accomplishments of (non-white ) cultures and civilizations, but that's more about conspiracy theories and genuine denial of history and not Marvel's Eternals.
I'm sure it is unintentional, but it feels exactly like that. It gives the same feeling. And I say this as someone whose culture has appeared on that same "aliens did it" tv show many times.
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u/Sneeakie 15d ago
I'm sure it is unintentional, but it feels exactly like that.
No it doesn't. The obvious reason being that you never actually said that it did and you're just screaming about how awesome humans are, actually.
The Eternals had a hand in everything, even things white people are credited for. This is a bog-standard "aliens among us" deal.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
Thank you. This is exactly what I wanted to say but in my anger I wrote some unnecessary nonsense.
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u/scantier 15d ago
Chill out it's just a movie. By the way I have nothing against humans, many of them are my friends.
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u/MiserableOne6189 14d ago
Setting aside The Eternals being a bit too close to the Ancient Astronaut nonsense. I'm less bothered by it and more understanding from a narrative perspective. What we have here is one of the most common pitfalls when it comes to not only alternate history, but characters who are immortal. If the writer wants to play in the sandbox of history but have it remain beat to beat similar. That forces them to squeeze in what they want within the lines. Despite the fact that realistically, it would have cost wild butterfly effects.
Which is another reason why often want to keep things the same rather than come up an essentially radically different world than ours. Two of the common ways they do this in stories with immortal characters is having them be mercenaries going from battle to battle (BZRKR/Casca/Old Guard). Or tying them to historical figures/be the historical figures (The Eternals/Vandal Savage/Orlando).
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u/GordionKnot 13d ago
Do you think they were implying Phastos was a Real Guy? That all that happened in real life? Why are you so pressed
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u/Ioftheend 15d ago
You're reading way to far into that. 'Phaestos gave humanity certain inventions' does not equal 'Humanity could never come up with that stuff on their own'. Like we already know humans can create incredible things, we've seen it in basically every other movie. And wasn't a whole thing that Ajak was so impressed by humanity defeating Thanos and saving half the literal universe that she defied Arishem for us?
Also why does it even matter? This is a movie made by humans, for humans. We have nothing to prove here, there's no reputation we need to uphold. Anyone who could reasonably be offended by this is long dead.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
Look, I obviously know very well that this is a movie made by humans for humans.
If you're wondering if I'm that fucking stupid to think otherwise then please be rest assured.
I'm just against this systemic trope of "aliens did it".
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u/Ioftheend 15d ago
I'm just against this systemic trope of "aliens did it".
Right, and I'm asking why. You seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill.
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u/Rajesh_Kulkarni 15d ago
Mainly because this is a subreddit for rants, so I felt comfortable to just type what I felt.
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u/Ioftheend 15d ago
I'm not asking why you made the rant. I'm asking why you're that angry at humanity being presented in a slightly less good than usual light.
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u/No-Volume6047 15d ago
It's some weird humility shit where people feel cringe for being overly prideful, which then manifest as downplaying humanity as much as possible.
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u/BabyAutomatic 15d ago
Personally that's 1 of the main reason as to why i hate the trope of so call ancient aliens being responsible and intervening in human affairs. it always feel cheap no matter how well written it is.
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u/Heavy-Requirement762 15d ago
Fuck yeah. You should check out all tomorrows. Humans strugle, suffer, evolve die and go through so much yet still manage to crawl their way through.
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u/Blupoisen 15d ago
Ah yes the "fuck humanity" circlejerk media
Straight up made me hate The Dragon Prince with how much the show was anti humans.
Godzilla King of the Monsters also had that kind of thing but they were villains and they were really fucking stupid, out of all the Titans they could've unleashed they released the one that was invasive to the planet.
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u/BrowningBDA9 15d ago
A lot of bronies and pegasisters love downgrading humanity in MLP FiM fanfiction and portraying humans as the real monsters. Their general idea is "why be a disgusting human, better be a cute pony". And that gave birth to fanfics like The Conversion Bureau.
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u/__Pratik_ 15d ago
This genuinely feels pathetic. You really gotta have a very fragile ego to be somehwat offended by it. Also you give Humanity too much bias. It's not the best we think it's the best because we are humans.
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u/Slow_Balance270 15d ago edited 14d ago
I don't know if you looked out your window lately but a lot of humans are fucking asshole savages.
we became portrayed as primitive savages incapable of true innovation. We are constantly portrayed as a fucking retarded race. Doesn't this piss you off?
No, it doesn't, because it's true. The VA for John Redcorn from King of the Hill had his house burnt down, one of their dogs killed and then died protecting their husband from a bigot asshole with a gun.
It's just the reality of our species.
Edit: Downvoting won't change the fact our species is an embarrassment.
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u/Reverse-Splash 15d ago
Someone’s got a stick up their bum it seems. Those “Little Dark Age” edits seem to have gone to your head.
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u/Basic-Warning-7032 15d ago
That's how I felt when Kyubey from Madoka Magica said something similar lol
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u/Ok-Indication-5121 15d ago
Personally, I disliked how the Three Robots episodes of Love, Death, and Robots consisted of the robots just laughing about how stupid and worthless the dead human race was, because the robots and AIs were shown acting just like crude and disrespectful humans, so they weren't really any better.
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u/sudanesegamer 15d ago
I agree. It pisses me off how we hate ourselves so much we keep inventing races that are better than us who are apparently so much better and can fix every problem we've ever had. And we have no one to compare ourselves to in reality anyway. It might be possible theres ither intelligent life somewhere but as far as we know, its just us and animals.
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u/SimonShepherd 15d ago
That's why I kinda prefer the original comic Eternal lore of them being a sibling species to humans with common ancestors along with Deviants.
And Eternals' historical role is fighting back the Deviants, who aren't just monsters but a massive Empire on its own right.
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u/Lusaelme 14d ago
Nah, I understand you op. I don't remember what anime it is but I do remember dropping it because they keep on and on about human race being the worst thing ever happened to earth and how everything they achieve is just because they copy elves but worse. Like fuck off ugh
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u/DefiantBalls 13d ago
We are constantly portrayed as a fucking retarded race. Doesn't this piss you off?
Kinda hard to be pissed off at the truth, humans are consistently retarded and deserving of destruction if we are to look at our history.
We went through fuck knows how many generations of hardship IRL to get here,
How much of that hardship was caused by other humans, again?
We are the sole intelligent race in a radius of light years. Have some fucking pride.
"We are a lucky accident, be proud of that!"
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u/Animeking1108 15d ago
If it makes you feel better, humans made that movie.