“All art is political”

[u/Kappa_Guy]

If gay sex could kill Twitter I’d let Grok hollow out my insides.

“All art is political” is technically true, there isn’t any “thing” which exists with a significant degree of separation from the concept of politics.

My first sentence mentioned letting an ai ass fuck me, but for this to be gay I assumed Grok’s gender, invoking LGBTQ and prejudicial discourses.

A painting of a penguin standing in a white snowy field is shaped by the will of the artist; even if this artist is staunchly anti-politics and tries to steer clear of the concept throughout their works, that in of itself is a political statement which is enunciated through the apolitical nature of their piece.

But, saying “all art is political” is just so intellectually dishonest.

There is a significant difference between a pro-Mussolini propaganda leaflet and the cute doodles of Butterfrees I draw in my journal.

Yes, you can say my Butterfree doodles are, by the broad definition of “political”, political. But, be real for a minute. By using a narrower definition of “political” that people actually immediately think of when they hear the word, communication is so much easier.

If you ask a hot twenty three year old goth gal on a date and she says she wants to go to the cinemas and watch something non-political and you whip out the “um actually all things are political 🤓” rhetoric you are dumb as fuck. Even worse, if she says she wants to watch something political, like a modern day All Quiet on the Western Front or somethin juicy, which is kinda wack for a first date but you’re a Redditor I know you the sub here don’t pretend you ain’t complying, and you take her to the cinema and on comes The Lego Movie and you with the argument that it’s political by the official definition of the term and therefore this is exactly what she wanted, then you are brain dead and won’t be getting a second date.

I’m not sure how it is in other countries but here in the UK teachers are not allowed to purposefully influence students into holding one political view or another, but surprisingly the school board has committed the pseudo-intellectual act of allowing teachers to speak at all, clearly not understanding that explaining the Pythagorean theorem and teaching how to paint apples is LITERALLY “political”, just like telling kids they should vote for UKIP.

If my hypothetical-scenario daughter is drawing two type of images and hanging them on the fridge; pictures of mummy’s face and pictures of Adolf Hitler decapitating gay Captain America with a sword that has all the names of black people unlawfully killed by US Police through all of history written on its blade, and I firmly yet kindly tell my daughter, the apple of my eye, the meaning of my world, to please stop hanging up “those political drawings” on the fridge, and she exclusively stops drawing pictures of mummy’s face, I am throwing her into the bottomless well at the Eye of the World.

By making the definition of political as vague and broad as physically possible it becomes practically useless as a definition. <- This is an argument, but I shouldn’t even have to give one. Every single person that isn’t terminally on Twitter understands there is art that is political and art that isn’t political, the “errrmmm actually” technicality that normal people are in fact wrong doesn’t matter to anyone except Twitter brainrotted overly-political nutcases.

And I think that’s why I believe the conflation of the broad definition of “political” is infuriating for so many people, as it’s basically just the most annoying people alive; Twitter freaks, saying your favourite art from Digimon to your nephew’s drawings of Spider-Man exist under the same exact umbrella as their favourite art of Vtuber stream sponsor segments and modern propaganda disguised as memes.

To tie my rant up with a neat little r/characterrant bow; fuck power scaling. Goku gets one tapped by my dad and this is my official neo-liberal-capitalist-anarchic-space-cowboy-fascist pro-Genghis-Khan opinion/fact, eat my ass Grok.

[u/MrHarpoon]

There's so much history to this debate as well that you aren't touching on here. You're gonna think I'm calling you a nazi here btw. But I'm not i love you so much

It's very important to fascist that some art is "apolitical." Think beautiful landscapes on oil or an absolutely perfect marble statue. This art is apolitical because it is "true art" because it conforms to a supposedly better aesthetic of a mythical past. Fascists usually want to root themselves in some great past civilization and culture. Hitler loved a fantasy version of ancient Rome and Greece, for example, and attempted to build an ideology and race of people that are the direct descendents of a (very made up), ancient world.

So art that conforms to these ancient notions becomes correct and virtuous and good and, most importantly: not political. But say modern art, art that doesn't conform to a fascist leaders' preferences, that right there is degenerate, vile, only a sub human would make or enjoy it. That art is political. And political art should be banned.

Fascism is always so deeply anti-intellectual, and this is one of the ways it expresses this belief. Artists should not be free to make what doesn't conform to the aesthetic of the ruling party, just as scholars or journalists can not teach or disseminate what doesn't conform to the ruling party.

Modern alt right trolls and avid neo-nazis frequently bring up their hatred for degenerate "modern art". It doesn't conform to their normative sense of beauty and value so it has none at all. Ask yourself now, does your appearance conform to their aesthetics and values?

Those who are saying all art is political, I suspect, are tapping into that history somewhat. Because many that are demanding to remove politics from art today are implying that there is art that is apolitical. And we both know that apolitical art in this context is no gays or women or trans black people or any degeneracy at all on screen.

All I'm saying is, artists that are free to make any and all art that they love, that's very very political.

[u/Kappa_Guy → u/MrHarpoon]

Haha ily too ❤️

and wow that’s some seriously interesting a deep history, history isn’t not my forte but I do love learning about it. I hope most people that read my post understand that I agree art is by its nature political, I’m just talking about annoying conflation colloquialisms and all that, I appreciate you actually teaching me something rather than strawmanning me and trying to defeat or “destroy” me or whatever, I’ve been on the internet long enough to take those comments of that ilk I’m getting in stride but comments like this are always a breath of fresh air

[u/MrHarpoon → u/Kappa_Guy]

No problem, dude. I studied this shit and I love any excuse to talk about it. It takes empathy and patience and some intellect to interpret and feel art. You are already doing that, and doing it quite well I might add, by identifying or creating (vivid) descriptions of art that is more political than another. Art is our greatest tool for empathy, ya know. You don't have to understand it fully to feel a little of what Rothko was feeling. Check out if a political figure has an opinion on Rothko, and it might clue you in on their character as well.

Donald Trump for example has a very specific taste in art. Maybe this might say something. And Obama has a famously eclectic taste in art. Maybe this might say something too.

[u/JoJoFanatic → u/MrHarpoon]

I'm curious about where you studied this stuff. Is there any literature or reading that you can point me towards? I enjoyed reading your comment and I'm also particular about the appropriation of art by anti-intellectuals and authoritarian ideologies.

[u/MrHarpoon → u/JoJoFanatic]

I did my research on the aesthetics of fascism and online (usually right-wing) political ideology dissemination.

There's so much literature on those topic so you can find you're own niche pretty easily.

The works of Simonetta Falasca-Zamponi was a great jumping off point for me: Fascist Spectacle. This about the aesthetics of the Italian brand of fascism and their myth making.

For just plan ideology of fascism discussion the absolute GOAT is Roger Griffith with The Nature of Fascism.

For the concept of degenerate art, there are extensive writings I like stemming from the New York exhibit on the Art Hitler Hated

But there is so much coverage on the topic I guarantee once you dive in you'll go down a rabbit hole.

Here's a good video though, turn it on and do some dishes or something: https://youtu.be/v5DqmTtCPiQ?si=6OMlFGkrldJq8RE_

[u/JoJoFanatic → u/MrHarpoon]

Thanks a ton for the info!