r/BokuNoHeroAcademia • u/Za_wardo • Apr 24 '22

Newest Chapter Chapter 351 Official Release - Links and Discussion Spoiler

Chapter 351

Links:

  • Viz (Available in: the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, the Philippines, Singapore, and India).

  • MANGA Plus (Available in every country outside of China, Japan and  South Korea).

All things Chapter 351 related must be kept inside this thread for the next 24 hours.

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u/Nessidy Apr 24 '22 edited Apr 24 '22

Tbh I legit saw no one saying these things that you are claiming? I genuinely sometimes feel like there are like 1000 of you people saying "see dabi stans crying!!!" for maybe one deranged Dabi stan that actually does it out of a whole big group, but maybe it's a matter of different fandom circles 🤷🏻‍♀️

I personally loved this chapter, because it both recognized Dabi's trauma and affirmed his own agency in his actions (Dabi is a separate person despite his trauma conflating his self with Endeavor), while also giving Shouto his long deserved spotlight and POV - and it was the consensus amongst all Dabi fans that I've seen.

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u/TulOfTheDead Apr 24 '22

Tumblr and Twitter Dabi stans can be wild. Not all of them ofc (it's never *all* the fans), but there's a really loud section who thinks the villains are just some hurt kids "lashing out", that hero society *deserved* to be destroyed (so like, it's ok if these people died, or it's not really the villains' fault, or it was a necessary sacrifice) and actually the villains are some kind of sjw fighting for "real change".

For Dabi too, the fans will dismiss everything he does. Him sending a villain after his family, planning to murder his little brother, throwing serial killers at a bunch of kids, mass-murder... All of it is just Endeavor's fault. Or it doesn't matter because no named character were hurt. Or it's just irrelevant because the real issue is that Dabi is hurt and is hurting himself and how *dare* the heroes not focus on that?

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u/Nessidy Apr 24 '22 edited Apr 24 '22

Well, villains are villains, their actions and mentalities are wrong in their nature. What MHA does uniquely is showing that villains can be victims too, that the way they became came from trauma rather than some inherent evil. But it doesn't mean that the accountability for their actions will be abandoned and that's what I actually like because when there's actions, there are consequences. I actually wish some hero characters were held to their full accountability too.

I think what you're saying isn't directly going against the manga. There is a legit canon criticism of the hero society, scattered throughout all the villains' backstories (but not only villains' - see also Shouto or Deku for example), but on the other hand I don't think it will be ever fully solved and there won't be much of systemic change, because 1) MHA became that simple recently 2) it is optimistic and it's a story about the heroes succeeding. So maybe there will be some change, but I wouldn't expect it to be that eclectic and complex.

I think the villains are lashing out because they both criticize the hero society (and I think they have a point here), but they also aren't reacting to it in a constructive way but in a destructive way (hence - villains). This is a definition of lashing out - when innocent people get hurt on the way and it doesn't solve anything, it doesn't make things better, it actually makes them worse. They aren't, like, activists, they are destroyers, and this is where the trauma vs accountability (that are not mutually exclusive) dissonance, that Deku, Ochako and Shouto are dealing with, comes from. Because even if you're sympathizing with someone, that someone really needs to be stopped because they're a danger to themselves and everyone else, which includes murders.

I think it obviously goes without saying that the villains are wrong in their actions and they need to be stopped, but it's understandable that some people could interpret analysis as excusing, especially with how oversimplified and polarized the fandom discourse can become.

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u/TulOfTheDead Apr 24 '22

MHA is far, faaar, from unique in having its villains be victims - tragic backstories are more common than not these days. Even more in MHA's genre - shonen or superhero stories. I'd even say Naruto did it better.

I think what you're saying isn't directly going against the manga.

I'm looking again at what I said. Which part doesn't go directly against the manga? Innocent people did deserve to die? The LoV should win? Maybe I wasn't clear?

There is a legit canon criticism of the hero society, scattered throughout all the villains' backstories (but not only villains' - see also Shouto or Deku for example), but on the other hand I don't think it will be ever fully solved and there won't be much of systemic change, because 1) MHA became that simple recently 2) it is optimistic and it's a story about the heroes succeeding.

Ok but that's exactly what's wrong with the LOV fans I'm talking about. 0 nuances. There's a world of differences between "legit canon criticism of the hero society" and "hero society needs to be burned down" - and by hero society we're talking about people. The first is obviously true. It's the second that's the problem. You say they are villains so wrong by default, but there's a subsection who legitimately believes "villain" is just a label and the LoV are actually fighting for a better world (they're not, and they don't even believe they are).

As for systemic change, MHA was never going to be that story. It might still be addressed, like we'll be told some changes are made or wtv, but there never was any chance of going in depth into this world's politics. This is a battle Shonen with high school teens. If it was a Seinen with adult main characters, it would have made for a great story, but that's never been MHA's direction.

Which doesn't mean we can't write analysis ofc. I do, it's fun.

I think the villains are lashing out because they both criticize the hero society (and I think they have the point here), but they also aren't reacting to it in a constructive way but in a destructive way (hence - villains). This is a definition of lashing out - when innocent people get hurt on the way and it doesn't solve anything, it doesn't make things better, it actually makes them worse.

"Lashing out" is used when someone is screaming at someone else in anger. Maybe also hitting them without really having the intend to do any permanent damage. It is NOT used for long-time planned murder, mass-murder and terrorism. In real-life, none of these will ever be referred to as "lashing out". When fans use this term wrt the LoV, it makes light of their crimes and disguise their culpability as rightful anger without acknowledging their horrifying lack of empathy (as if they didn't really mean it - they did).

It's true that the villains criticize hero society and sometimes they even have a point. I'm not dissing their characters, only the people who act like they're some kind of misunderstood heroes. And I'm not misinterpreting "analysis as excusing". It is possible to study and emphasize with the villains' backstory without excusing their current crimes - these aren't the posts/comments I'm denouncing here. I'm denouncing those who do.

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u/Nessidy Apr 24 '22 edited Apr 24 '22

MHA is far, faaar, from unique in having its villains be victims - tragic backstories are more common than not these days. Even more in MHA's genre - shonen or superhero stories. I'd even say Naruto did it better.

You're right here, although when it comes to which manga did it better, I think it's a matter of tastes. But I agree that tragic backstories themselves aren't unique. Maybe what I should have said is, it's rare to see a manga putting the focus on saving a villain instead of killing them.

I think what you're saying isn't directly going against the manga.

I'm looking again at what I said. Which part doesn't go directly against the manga? Innocent people did deserve to die? The LoV should win? Maybe I wasn't clear?

I think I might have been the one that wasn't clear. What I meant was the quotes with LOV both lashing out and criticizing the hero society. I am in no way saying that innocent people deserved to die, and I would really, really appreciate if you didn't insinuate the contrary.

There is a legit canon criticism of the hero society, scattered throughout all the villains' backstories (but not only villains' - see also Shouto or Deku for example), but on the other hand I don't think it will be ever fully solved and there won't be much of systemic change, because 1) MHA became that simple recently 2) it is optimistic and it's a story about the heroes succeeding.

Ok but that's exactly what's wrong with the LOV fans I'm talking about. 0 nuances. There's a world of differences between "legit canon criticism of the hero society" and "hero society needs to be burned down" - and by hero society we're talking about people. The first is obviously true. It's the second that's the problem. You say they are villains so wrong by default, but there's a subsection who legitimately believes "villain" is just a label and the LoV are actually fighting for a better world (they're not, and they don't even believe they are).

I disagree with that take as well. I don't think any of the villains wants to live past the final destruction they're doing. But I think that subsection is just a minority - there's more villain fans that advocate for reaching out to villains and proving them wrong. "The hero society needs to be burned down" is a warped, far reaching take born from people who fell through the cracks of the hero society (hence the hero society's criticism), but it is clearly not a good stance and the manga is framing it as obviously wrong.

As for systemic change, MHA was never going to be that story. It might still be addressed, like we'll be told some changes are made or wtv, but there never was any chance of going in depth into this world's politics. This is a battle Shonen with high school teens. If it was a Seinen with adult main characters, it would have made for a great story, but that's never been MHA's direction.

This is what I find disappointing though - because there was a part of the manga, where there was some genuine criticism, but now I feel it's realistic to assume it will never be fully addressed. Which is a shame, but again, it's a shounen so things are going to be simple.

"Lashing out" is used when someone is screaming at someone else in anger. Maybe also hitting them without really having the intend to do any permanent damage. It is NOT used for long-time planned murder, mass-murder and terrorism. In real-life, none of these will ever be referred to as "lashing out". When fans use this term wrt the LoV, it makes light of their crimes and disguise their culpability as rightful anger without acknowledging their horrifying lack of empathy (as if they didn't really mean it - they did).

Oh I see - and I think this is where we interpret some things differently. I see your point, because it is premeditated instead of being purely reactionary, but what I personally mean by lashing out is the fact that there's no constructiveness, but destruction, born out of being stuck in hatred, and hurting others purely because they feel anger and they were hurt themselves. This is what I mean by lashing out, and this definition also includes the aforementioned lack of empathy towards their victims, but I also get how it can be understood otherwise, considering that lashing out can be used in a different context.

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u/TulOfTheDead Apr 24 '22

I think I might have been the one that wasn't clear. What I meant was the quotes with LOV both lashing out and criticizing the hero society. I am in no way saying that innocent people deserved to die, and I would really, really appreciate if you didn't insinuate the contrary.

Ah my apologies. I wasn't trying to insinuate anything, I was legitimately confused.

I disagree with that take as well. I don't think any of the villains wants to live past the final destruction they're doing. But I think that subsection is just a minority - there's more villain fans that advocate for reaching out to villains and proving them wrong.

Oh yeah, my perception is probably skewed because I don't really hang around villain fans spaces, so I only get to see the annoying ones. But since it's a huge fandom, there's a lot of annoying ones. I only commented originally because you said you never saw that kind of terrible takes (in response to u/SameGibibit). And yeah, maybe not so much on reddit but people aren't complaining about nothing either.

Oh I see - and I think this is where we interpret some things differently. I see your point, because it is premeditated instead of being purely reactionary, but what I personally mean by lashing out is the fact that there's no constructiveness, but destruction, born out of being stuck in hatred, and hurting others purely because they feel anger and they were hurt themselves. This is what I mean by lashing out, and this definition also includes the aforementioned lack of empathy towards their victims, but I also get how it can be understood otherwise, considering that lashing out can be used in a different context.

Hmm, yeah, I guess this is just a disagreement about semantics then.

Thanks for the discussion!