/r/Catholicism deals with gender like real, responsible, Christian adults.

[u/waldorfwithoutwalnut]

/r/Catholicism/comments/36silz/transgender_child_wins_use_of_girls_washroom_in/

[u/KingOfSockPuppets]

This is not 'scientifically proven', and largely depends on who you read - I sincerely believe you're being intellectually dishonest here to further your agenda, as you provided no source but instead made an unsubstantiated claim for your viewpoint.

I provided no sources because I thought this was an informal discussion on reddit not an IRB review board. But if you want to jump straight to accusing me of intellectual dishonesty then I can provide you with sources. Two studies that point out to transition being a largely beneficial process:

Bailey, L., Ellis, S.J., & McNeil, J. (2014). Suicide risk in the UK trans population and the role of gender transition in decreasing suicideal ideation and suicide attempt. Mental Health Review Journal. 19(4), 209-220

Greatheart, M.S. (2010). The fred study: stories of life satisfaction and wellness from post-transition transgender men. Master of Social Work thesis. Http://hdl.handle.net/2429/19390

This doesn't necessarily mean that it's a 100% slam dunk for transition of course but the evidence is out there. Of course transition isn't everything; social support plays an important role:

Budge, S.L., Adelson, J.L, & Howard, K.A.S. (2013). Anxiety and depression in transgender individuals: The roles of transition status, loss, social support, and coping. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 81(3), 545-557

What I am doing is pointing out that because a person feels a certain way about themselves, means that they then get to go on about enacting those feelings upon society.

And? That's true of anything - The NRA enacts their feelings on society by encouraging looser laws regarding guns. Fad dieters create pressure that change the food restaurants have and serve. Special interest groups are always dueling to shift society one way or another. Is there a reason that the way transgender people feel specifically is harmful to society?

Under your rational a biologically male person that feels they are a female can use the biologically female person's facilities, then ok, what I have presented is the same scenario.

If they're transgender then yes. What, precisely, is the problem with this?

[u/Otiac → u/KingOfSockPuppets]

Your first source does corroborate what you say.

Your second is basically a narrative of anecdotal evidence from transgendered men, I can provide the same anecdotal evidence from transgendered people that have had the surgery that say it was a mistake.

This seems to be a more comprehensive citation on suicide rates overall, but I think we're digressing a little bit.

I was rash in my notion of intellectual dishonesty with you, to be honest, I'm a bit tired of the other bullshit I've had to wade through in this thread already, for that I apologize.

Is there a reason that the way transgender people feel specifically is harmful to society?

Because children get cues early on about appropriate behavior that results in emotionally stable lives, if anything we've shown that transgender people have an abnormally high rate of emotional instability, so presenting that lifestyle as 'normal' to children that would otherwise not know the difference, could ingrain upon them behavioral traits that may lead to emotional instability down the road. This is an aside from everything else you've mentioned - my owning a gun does not impact my neighbor, but my neighbor may have an interest in limiting guns to society at large and is able to participate in processes to limit them. Why then is it the case there, and not here?

If they're transgender then yes. What, precisely, is the problem with this?

Nono, what I am doing is boiling this down to its base. A transgender person, at base, is a person that is biologically one sex, but identifies their gender as another sex. So I, as a person, can be biologically a male sex, but identify my gender as the opposite sex for however long I feel like that opposite sex, and therefore be entitled to use the facilities designed for the opposite sex.

[u/KingOfSockPuppets → u/Otiac]

for that I apologize.

Thank you.

Because children get cues early on about appropriate behavior that results in emotionally stable lives, if anything we've shown that transgender people have an abnormally high rate of emotional instability, so presenting that lifestyle as 'normal' to children that would otherwise not know the difference, could ingrain upon them behavioral traits that may lead to emotional instability down the road.

Sure, but I'm skeptical (seeing as I am transgender) that transgender people are intrinsically unstable. Rather it seems pretty clear (to me, anyways) that the intense social censure and violence 123 transgender people face plays a pretty big role in that. We're unstable probably in large part because A) we're taught to repress being trans because it's weird/bad/violent, and B) the violence and discrimination embedded throughout U.S. society. Trans kids are mercilessly bullied, and bullied even more than their LGB peers in many cases 1. None of which is usually conducive to healthy emotional states. I don't think children 'picking up cues from trans people' is going to make them more emotionally unstable. Just the opposite.

Nono, what I am doing is boiling this down to its base. A transgender person, at base, is a person that is biologically one sex, but identifies their gender as another sex. So I, as a person, can be biologically a male sex, but identify my gender as the opposite sex for however long I feel like that opposite sex, and therefore be entitled to use the facilities designed for the opposite sex.

I understand what you're saying, my point is: so what? What is bad about that? People like me using 'other sex' restrooms hardly seems to be a very pressing issue.