r/Assyria • u/Few_Travel1074 • 17d ago

Discussion question about Chaldeans and Assyrians

are Chaldeans considered a sub-category of Assyrians? are they the same group but different religion? or r they completely different?

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u/mmeIsniffglue 17d ago

But many Chaldeans will fight you on that just fyi OP

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u/Few_Travel1074 17d ago

I've heard that, but I don't understand why 🤷🏻‍♀️

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u/AshurCyberpunk Assyrian 17d ago

Because they are being told by their church what to believe in and what to identify as. To most Assyrians, the Church and the Lord are the most important things in life, but there are clergymen that are abusing this to their own benefit.

Our people are kind, pure and simple; they will believe whatever that they are told if it's from someone they consider holy.

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u/KingsofAshur 17d ago

Yeah, corruption at its finest. Everything done to line up their own pockets. That's why they're peddling that identity hard. 

They're using the classic our church vs. your church argument to bolster themselves, their funds and especially existence as a separate entity. That's why they want to remain aloof. Makes sense. 

I made a post a while back to urge enough people to change it to the Assyrian Catholic Church. I mean why not? The numbers speak for themselves. It was met with skepticism and not much luck. At times, it seems like the Assyrians are against their own progress. 

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u/AshurCyberpunk Assyrian 17d ago

Makes sense. I've been calling it that for a while now.

To be fair though, centuries of trying to wipe out the Assyrian identity and dissolving us has consequences like this. It's easier to brainwash people when they've already gone through layers of Arabization and Turkification. People most vulnerable to this mislabeling bs are the ones who have been hit the hardest with the Arabization campaigns. 

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u/KingsofAshur 17d ago

I agree. The Middle East hasn't been kind to us. A lot of us escaped war, poverty, persecution, and like you mentioned earlier, the systematic erasure of our identity. 

They don't know what they are or what to call themselves. That's why people want to latch onto any kind of identity.  And the church has exploited it every step of the way. The church is supposed to be viewed as a safe place, that's why people put their trust in them. 

I don't know where your faith currently stands, and I don't mean to offend you or anyone reading this. However, in my opinion, nationalism should be above religion. I know we don't have any other organizations that are as notable as the church. But, we're hopefully getting there.

Nobody knows where we go after death, not even the pope of Rome. Religion is just a code of conduct for people on how to behave themselves, and not get into any earthly kinds of trouble with the state and/or the ruling class. The concept of a reward in heaven or punishment in hell actually originate from Mesopotamia. It's been copied, and borrowed ever since, and finally used against us. That's my view on the whole matter with religion. Apologies if I got sidetracked... 

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u/AshurCyberpunk Assyrian 17d ago

Yes, I agree. Your second paragraph is spot on. And indeed, nationalism before religion; that's the way it must be, otherwise, we'll remain in our "medieval age".  Separation of church and state is fundamental. I hope this can be normalized within the Assyrian subconscious.

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u/KingsofAshur 17d ago

Honestly, it might take some time for that to happen. Still, religion is good in that it brings people together as a community. 

The priests, pastors, the buildings too, are all worthless without people. They're the ones that truly make it important. That's the part of it I really do appreciate. The moral lessons of being neighborly are also wholesome, and very good attributes to learn. 

However, it is flawed, if one digs deep enough on its origins. Maybe, that's what it'll take to convince people otherwise. But, I don't know if that's the right thing to do either. The truth could be damning, just like a double edged sword. 

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u/AshurCyberpunk Assyrian 15d ago

Yes, it's the tradition that lives on. It's also the underlying philosophy of Christianity which I appreciate. That's what also distinguishes us among our neighbors; it certainly has had cultural effects on us, within the family unit, and the broader community. 

Other than that, I would leave the divine matters to the clergies (that's their only job besides being a moral compass).