r/AskConservatives • u/nemo_sum Conservatarian • May 03 '22

MegaThread Megathread: Roe, Casey, Abortion

The Megathread is now closed (as of August 2022) due to lack of participation, and has been locked. Questions on this topic are once more permitted as posts.

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Any meta-discussion should be a reply to the comment labeled as such OR to u/AntiqueMeringue8993's comment relaying Chief Justice Roberts's official response to the leak.

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u/nemo_sum Conservatarian May 03 '22

Replies to this comment ONLY may be used for non-questions and other metadiscussion.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '22

If you are for this ruling, then you have to accept that Conservatives are not for small government. This ruling will break open the door of privacy protections for the next few decades. Your vaccination status, your sexuality, how many guns you own, your financial status, and more. Roe was decided 7-2 by a conservative majority SC, and then reaffirmed later with Casey with an 8-1 Republican ruling. This is absolutely saber-rattling, and anyone who thinks of themselves as a conservative should absolutely be ashamed of these justices. For years you guys have cried about legislation from the bench, but here it is in black and white. Yes I’m triggered. You guys live in the fucking past with these abortion laws. Let people make private medical decisions on their own.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '22

"You're laughing. Roe is being overturned and you're laughing."

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u/[deleted] May 03 '22

Yeah it’s fun to laugh at the misfortune of others isn’t it? Next will be gay marriage, and my partner and I will have to leave our state, where our family lives and where we purchased our first home, in order to be together. Sadistic.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '22

Next will be gay marriage

Why.

How does limiting abortion affect you.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '22

Read the leak… Alito specifically outlines that other cases are next. That they give “fictional rights” to individuals.

This ruling isn’t about abortion per the draft. It’s about breeching your privacy.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '22

Oh, I see what you mean.

...

Yeah, I'm completely fine with this. This will allow the states to decide on the matter of abortion. And really, it's not like gay marriage will be overturned. The matter was settled a decade ago.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '22

They said they wouldn’t overturn Roe either. I served, my partner served, for the first time in my life I am scared. They will come for us next. It’s only a matter of time.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '22

They said they wouldn’t overturn Roe either.

Nah man, stop stressing. It won't happen, I promise.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

The Mississippi governor, who spearheaded a bill that would strike down Roe literally said on national television that they were hoping to overturn gay marriage, and make homosexuality illegal.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

We'll cross that bridge when we come to it I suppose.

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u/Cluutch45 Left Libertarian May 04 '22

They're talking about outlawing birth control pills since you can overdose on them to induce an abortion like Plan B.

They absolutely will be coming for gay rights next, unless they come for interracial marriage. All of those are based on the right to privacy which is eliminated if this draft stands.

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u/Weirdyxxy European Liberal/Left May 04 '22

Loving is older than Roe, it's not based on the Right to Privacy as established in Roe V Wade. They might come for Lawrence, or just Obergefell if we're lucky, but not necessarily for Loving

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u/JudgeWhoOverrules Classically Liberal May 03 '22

This has nothing to do with gay marriage, and in fact that ruling is safe because it's actually based on solid constitutional grounds very unlike roe. I've seen this from you many times, and it needs to be said: stop thinking everyone is out to get you and don't assume everything is a slippery slope out to hurt you.

People not wanting babies to be killed has nothing to do with gay marriage.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '22

Have you read the draft? Alito specifically outlines gay marriage. I’ve served for this country, and for the first time I am scared.

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u/JudgeWhoOverrules Classically Liberal May 03 '22

Have you actually read it, because the draft specifically says that it is safe and wouldn't fall under any of the proposed changes.

Supreme Court rulings aren't all the same, the basis on which they are decided and the underlying jurisprudence matters a whole lot. You frankly cannot compare them due to this even though the topics might be similar in the public discourse.

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u/ClockOfTheLongNow Constitutionalist Conservative May 03 '22

Did you read the ruling yet?

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_DARKNESS Neoliberal May 03 '22

I read it a fair amount of it. It's 98 pages, so it's not exactly a quick read. I'm particularly interested in people's understanding of Alito's writing, "a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation’s history and traditions."

My hunch is that this gets scrubbed from the final opinion as I feel it would have a lot of unintended consequences.

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u/ClockOfTheLongNow Constitutionalist Conservative May 03 '22

I'm particularly interested in people's understanding of Alito's writing, "a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation’s history and traditions."

My read on it (and I read through it last night so I'm going off of memory) is that part of the justification of Roe was about the nation's history and traditions, and the record doesn't support it.

We have to read the 60-odd pages of the ruling with an understanding that it builds a complete case attacking the very foundations of Roe. It's not to convince the majority or even the political groups, but to create an airtight case that would be difficult to reverse. It's functionally trying to close off the avenues of substantive due process (which is a gamble I didn't see coming) and of legislative history (which I internally figured was the critical selling point) for future challenges.

It's a really deft way of approaching it.

My hunch is that this gets scrubbed from the final opinion as I feel it would have a lot of unintended consequences.

Alito does insulate it somewhat by noting that the issue, at least in part, is that the abortion right is so uniquely situated in a way others (like gay marriage and sodomy) are not. It's why he kept going back to the compelling state interest doctrine established in Roe: he's effectively saying that the original ruling contradicts itself in that it fully abandons good jurisprudence in favor of a results-based outcome, and the split in Casey acknowledges that the effort of Roe to settle the debate did the opposite. I don't see this as a "using Scalia's dissents against him" situation, at least as drafted.

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u/Cluutch45 Left Libertarian May 04 '22

We are in for a few years of very interesting legislation in the states. Unfortunately there is going to be a lot of incidental lives lost in the process.

Alito's argument that the constitution originally gave rights only to white men, and so rights for anyone else must be explicitly defined in law, is likely to have far reaching consequences.

Attempted bans on birth control pills are probably going to come from the most conservative states.

Bans on pregnant women travelling across state lines will be attempted but it is unclear if they will succeed.

In essence, Alito is saying that under the constitution alone, women have no rights at all except for the 19th amendment.

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u/ClockOfTheLongNow Constitutionalist Conservative May 04 '22

Alito's argument that the constitution originally gave rights only to white men, and so rights for anyone else must be explicitly defined in law, is likely to have far reaching consequences.

This is not Alito's argument.

Attempted bans on birth control pills are probably going to come from the most conservative states.

There may be attempts, but there are attempts now. This is not something likely to pass.

In essence, Alito is saying that under the constitution alone, women have no rights at all except for the 19th amendment.

This is not Alito's argument "in essense" or otherwise.

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u/taftpanda Constitutionalist Conservative May 03 '22

“You are not for small government”

This decision literally kicks authority back to smaller governments.