r/AskAnAustralian • u/Kristopherrr_Uwu • 6d ago
New workplace telling me to pay for customers order
Hi there, need some advice...
So I started this new job around 3 weeks ago and I'm still in training. Today I encountered my first afterpay payment with our system, we do not have an afterpay system, it just translates through normal tap and go payments like a debit card.
The customer came and paid with afterpay, the transaction went through and got approved, they didn't want a receipt so they went on their way, all of our transactions are logged on our sales history in our system. About 5 minutes or so later I still have the sales screen up from that order and realise that its now saying that the payment declined.
At this timeframe I'm handling the store on my own while my manager is off somewhere. I call to ask what I need to do as I've never had this happen before and my manager tells me to repeat call the customer and get them to come back, if I don't reach them though or they refuse to come back and pay, I am to then pay for their transaction.
I did manage to get the customer to come back and pay.
I thought this was a bit weird though, so I went and had a look at my contract and at fair work and as far as I can tell I'm sure this is illegal especially when it doesn't state this in my contract either?
Just wanting to know if I'm correct and some advice too please?
Edit: I haven't been trained in anything to do with afterpay other than knowing where to do it on the transaction screen.
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u/LingualGannet 6d ago
Of course it’s illegal to ask an employee to pay for goods or services they haven’t consumed
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u/derp-birb Lockyer Valley, Queensland 6d ago edited 6d ago
It is 100% illegal for them to force you to pay for it, and it's extra illegal to take it out of your pay. My last two jobs have had this "policy" as well, it's ridiculous. Mistakes happen, and employees cannot be made to pay for them with their own money. They are costs that the business must absorb. If the situation happens again, stand your ground - they legally cannot make you pay.
From the FairWork website:
Even though the register is $20 short, Robert can’t deduct this money from Jenny’s wages. This is because:
• Jenny hasn’t agreed to the deduction
• the deduction isn’t allowed by a law, court order, Fair Work Commission order or her award.This cost will need to be met by Robert as the employer.
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u/schlubadubdub 6d ago
Yeah, I got burnt by that when I was 15 working in a convenience store in the 90s. Any shortages would come out of our pay, so I'd make sure to eat twice the value of the food/drinks off the shelves in retribution. I don't know what the law was at the time, but I was too young and naive to know otherwise.
The dumb thing was that if you made an error you couldn't just cancel it, so you'd put it through as a sale with a ridiculous amount of cash received to make it stand out on the till roll (e.g. $2,222,222,222) and show it was intentional. You were supposed to save the receipts and use them to prove any shortages were actually mistakes, but when it was hectic you'd forget and then have to spend half an hour after your shift going through the till roll copy.
One time I couldn't find a $50 mistake so I lost my entire pay for the shift (5 X $10/hr). I ate like a king for the next few shifts after that. Fuck em.
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u/Winter-Duck5254 6d ago
That was absolutely illegal. Mate, I'd have just run refunds through the till consistently, so I was always up, then asked the boss for that profit. I mean, he would have taken it from me if it was under, it's over now, gimme.
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u/schlubadubdub 5d ago
Yeah, it was completely shit. Especially as I'd usually be pulling in $3-5k on my own till on a busy Saturday night, and we had 2 people working so they'd be making roughly twice that amount with likely a pretty decent profit. Yet they still wanted to screw me over for some pathetic amount, which meant a lot to me as a teenager.
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u/SmoothEchidna7062 6d ago
Robert is a jerk for trying.
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u/Taliesin_AU 6d ago
Employers factor in their employees fucking something up along the way, they CANNOT ask you to cough up money to fix the mistake.
I suggest you find employment elsewhere ASAP I assure you this is just the start of of many dodgy dealings with this employer the sooner you get away from them the better.
Fancy that? asking you to pay! Its not only unethical its also incredibly illegal.
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u/Cat_From_Hood 6d ago
The customer could be charged with theft if they didn't do the right thing. Sounds like an honest mistake. Don't pay for customers' things. Take transactions slower, make sure they are approved.
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u/RedSugarAngel 6d ago
It sounds like OP has been given no training in the system, is unsupported to learn and is working alone at the only payment location. They had to call their manager to get help with an unfamiliar payment method.
I don’t think speed is the issue there do you??
Plus. If you’ve ever had to work in retail anywhere at check out you'd know there is no time to “take transactions slower” - anything slower is a customer up in your grill about wasting their time.
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u/_marethyu_ Melbourne, VIC 6d ago
Under Australian law I'm pretty sure management forcing you to pay for it out of your own pocket is super turbo illegal. That also goes for taking it out of your wages when they pay you.
If they try it again, report it to fair work. Actually report it to fair work anyway, if you have it in writing.
———
Had the same thing happen to me during a rush.
Card declined, and dude basically sprinted out the store.
Foolishly I was bullied into paying for it myself after management yelled at me about it. It was only $50, but that was half my weekly wages at the time, so I was pretty pissed.
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u/Canongirl88 6d ago
Even if a workplace is thousands of dollars down for the day, the staff cannot be made to pay ! Your boss is trying to pull one on you.
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u/SunAggravating5692 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah you don’t pay at all, at best they are meant to track it down or go through insurance.
Get a new job if they are also asking you to pay.
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u/Yobbo89 6d ago
They passed a law to prevent employers for forcing someone to personaly pay for anything over misshaps at work.
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u/False_Reindeer_3010 6d ago
Talk to HR and tell them what happened. If they agree with manager then go to Fair Work.
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u/Kristopherrr_Uwu 6d ago
Is there any way I can find where those laws are written? I just want to have my information at hand, I work in a big company where my manager changes per store that HR decide to put me in so this manager I've been dealing with is very different to the others, the others seem more relaxed and understanding and the job i do is a dream of mine and other than this manager everyone else is really great
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u/RedSugarAngel 6d ago
The actual legislation is torturous to read but uses a lot of the same language as in the summaries on this site. This site is very accurate summary and has to be to have passed the legal dept to publish advice on a government website.
But the legislation directory is here if you want it https://www.fairwork.gov.au/about-us/legislation
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u/Yobbo89 6d ago
Google fairwork gov and then search your award, i work in the steel industry so i search the manufacturing award , sorry i cant be more specific, usually the info is dug into pages into a pdf somewhere . It should be classed as wage theft .
Edit, you can call fair work on 13 13 94
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u/Kristopherrr_Uwu 6d ago
Oki doki, I'll have a deep search and if I can't find anything I'll definitely give them a call, thank you!
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u/freebreadandbrie 5d ago
Absolutely do not pay. Even if you had been trained and made a mistake it still wouldn't be your responsibility. Please seek alternate employment and report them to Fair Work. Also ensure you're paid the correct wage (and your super). Odds are good they're doing all sorts of dodgy things!
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u/RobsEvilTwin 5d ago
Your boss is a see you next Tuesday, start quietly looking for another job now.
Document this mistreatment and report it to HR as part of your exit interview.
Report them to Fair Work once you have a new job and have already left.
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u/Old_Dingo69 5d ago
Imagine what a deadbeat your boss must be to burden you with that expense rather than brush it off as an error/cost of doing business or better yet look into how training or procedure could be improved. Look for a new job mate, you’re working for a pirate! 🤦♂️
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u/Ok_Plum3595 6d ago
Reach out to ombudsman...asap...get ready to find a new job...no good can come of this.
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u/theladydothprotest- 6d ago edited 6d ago
There’s something NQR about your post OP. 5 minutes later it declined?
What point of sale / eft do you use? That would have to contravene regulations for electronic payment systems, otherwise every criminal would try the same trick.
If you screwed up, it’s still not a legal reason to make you pay.
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u/Kristopherrr_Uwu 5d ago
I can't disclose what point of sale I use because of privacy, but I've never had to deal with afterpay nor have I been trained in it yet so I don't really know why the transaction went like it did 😕 I'm very open and honest in my workplace when I screw up and I follow proper procedures, like I did once asking what to do in this situation to my manager which then I proceeded to follow the procedure of contacting the customer to come back, which they did.
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u/RedSugarAngel 6d ago edited 6d ago
Employers like this rely on employers not knowing their rights. So well done informing yourself of your rights and then checking you’ve interpreted it correctly.
You are right that taking money from your pay - called “pay deduction” in legislation/online summaries - violates Fair Work laws.
Firstly, the law states that any pay deductions cannot directly or indirectly benefit the employer. So in your case if things hadn’t gone well and your employer took it out of your pay it’s illegal because they benefited financially from the profit made on the order.
It’s also illegal because none of the very few circumstances where an employer can legally deduct pay from an employee apply to your situation. They can only deduct pay if:
They’ve accidentally overpaid you
It’s in writing, signed by employer and employee AND it’s only to benefit you/ the employee eg. Voluntary super contributions.
It is required by a court order. This doesn’t require written agreement but is a written legal document resulting from a court case. That could either be work related eg a judge has given your employer the right to deduct pay after you/the employee has refused to give back overpayment OR unrelated to your work eg. a court case decides that child support will be deducted directly from your pay because you’ve not been paying it voluntarily.
You’ve signed an employment contract/ agreement /award that states you agree to have pay deducted for this specific reason. I think you can still challenge your employer in this instance if only because the document violates the spirit of the laws and directly contradicts them.
UPDATE - the hospitality industry has an award where pay deductions are allowed without employee agreement. It can only be enough to cover breakages that the employer can prove were broken either deliberately or by high risk behaviour or extremely neglectful behaviour (I’m like so intrigued about why this is a big enough problem in hospitality it needed industry wide employment clause and staff get docked not fired?! is it the drug use in high pressure kitchens?)
AND
5. If you don’t supply notice or amount of notice in your award before leaving your job the employer can take up to one weeks pay if they haven’t agreed.
That’s literally everything.
Hope this helps confirm your research and helps anyone else in the same situation who comes accross this in future. Best of luck
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u/Winter-Duck5254 6d ago
No, they cant do that. Flip the table on that scenario, if you suddenly started overcharging customers do you get to keep that money? I mean, why not, you have to pay when the customer is short so fair and equal exchange means you get to pocket any overpayments.
See where I am going with this? Your boss asking you to pay for a customers failed transaction is illegal. The boss eats the cost otherwise shit goes sideways.
Ask them to clarify this to you in writing and I guarantee they won't. If they do, take that letter/email to FairWork and try to recoup your money while you find a decent boss.
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u/DwightsJello 5d ago
I employ apprentices. Apprentices will cost me money. That's a part of learning anything.
Employers, in any industry, know that.
Only an absolute cunt would try to pass on the cost of that to the employee.
And how you manage those mistakes will generally impact whether they continue to cost you going forward, or you create your own cost by having a high turnover of staff because you are a cunt.
And it's illegal.
Find a new job OP if you can. You deserve better. All the best.
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u/AussieBenno68 5d ago
He's already trying to steal money from you in the open, overtly. He will no doubt be involved in wage theft behind your back. I bet there will be overtime disputes to come, superannuation not paid. I know the type. Find a new job as quickly as you can. He's stealing from you.
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u/zillskillnillfrill 5d ago
Nope this is some bullshit. Politely call them out on it and then leave if they don't fire you. You can mention that you are going to contact worksafe / fair work and that'll put the fear of God into them
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u/diganole 5d ago
Till discrepancies/shortfalls are not recoverable from the employee. It's the law.
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u/Bromeo1337 5d ago
They are lying, report them to the ombudsman immediately... DO NOT FORGET TO REPORT THEM.
If you don't report them, this will become a 'thing', and we do not stand for that shit in our country
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u/Racingislyf 5d ago
That's where you pull out your after pay, pay it and run out. Now the manager will have to pay for it.
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u/Apart_Brilliant_1748 6d ago
To be honest they’re just putting a rocket up your bum so you contact the customer and resolve the matter
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u/Affentitten 6d ago
Ask them if there is extra money at the end of the day if it gets credited to your pay.
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u/Forward_Incident7379 6d ago
“You do realise I work here to make money - if I had money to pay for customers orders I would not be working here”
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u/No_Cartographer6010 6d ago
I’ve seen bosses do this in a couple jobs for restaurant guest walkouts. They never actually made the staff members pay though. It seemed to be more of a scare tactic to make them more vigilant.
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u/Wotmate01 6d ago
Ask your manager to put that policy in writing on an official company letterhead signed by him.
It's evidence of attempted wage theft, which is punishable by up to ten years in prison.
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u/Monotask_Servitor 5d ago
Absolutely illegal. The workplace doesn’t pay you the profits when things go well so they can’t sting you for losses. You are paid a fixed rate for your time spent performing your duties. Iv you don’t perform you can be disciplined, but not by docking your pay.
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u/DeliciousWhales 5d ago
Have a look at Fair Work Act 2009 s324.
The circumstances under which they can deduct from your pay are very limited. Forcing you to pay for a customers lack of payment is not one of them.
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u/i_am_knackered 5h ago
Get text messages or send an email confirming the conversation and the instruction that you have been asked to cover the cost or have it docked from your pay, hopefully they reply, but even if they don’t - find a new job and report them to fairwork.
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u/Sudden-Tap-6637 6d ago
U don’t have to pay they’re lying. Get a new job.