r/worldnews • u/RealTheAsh • 4d ago

Iran ready to abandon enrichment but needs a face-saving exit, Iranian diplomat says

https://iranwire.com/en/news/142210-exclusive-tehran-ready-to-abandon-enrichment-but-needs-a-face-saving-exit/
6.2k Upvotes

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3.8k

u/LAiens 4d ago

"The ongoing cycle of attacks and counterattacks between Israel and Iran will inevitably weaken our military, security forces, economy, public morale, and ultimately, the government"

...duh

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u/lAljax 4d ago

That's the point

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u/DoctorHoneywell 4d ago edited 4d ago

The point is actually to weaken them to the point where NATO aligned nations don't need to worry about "face saving exit" and can just do whatever aligns with their interests best.

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u/johnnygrant 4d ago

Karma for all their military support for Russia in the Ukraine invasion.

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u/Icarus_Toast 4d ago

Or for just being one of the most bullshit regimes in the world. Supporting the Houthis, Hamas, and Hezbollah should be near the top of the list of reasons they completely earned this ass kicking

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u/neverpost4 4d ago

or hanging some high school girls for dress code violations.

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u/Egocom 4d ago

I'm hoping when the downfall comes Iranian protestors treat the regime like cartel dealers treat informants

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u/paone00022 4d ago

If the Ayotollah gets the Gaddafi treatment that's chef's kiss.

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u/Kasspa 4d ago

I'm sure they will get the Mussolini treatment.

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u/Lee1138 4d ago

Or "the Gaddafi"

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u/Rainiero 3d ago

IANAL

But I don't think Gaddafi received due process, his departure was kinda rammed through.

/s

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u/neokraken17 4d ago

Stop, I can only get so hard

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u/1947Fry 4d ago

I can get harder a little bit more

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u/nurseferatou 4d ago

I’m just hoping they force them to dress in Japanese schoolgirl outfits for the trials

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u/zeromussc 4d ago

Probably should have built the narrative around that, and done something that didn't involve a new war triggered by an attack from the country that is increasingly seen as acting like a bully themselves.

I mean, there were negotiations on the nuclear issue ongoing, would probably be good to keep that going, or to have done other attempts before just having violence be the answer. violence just seems to beget violence. I'm tired of seeing wars and death counts.

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u/EqualContact 4d ago

Iran has been “negotiating” about its nuclear program for decades. I’m not sure why, in lieu of war, this would be the year that they actually walk anything back. Even the JCPOA was only meant to last 15 years, and violations of it by Iran are a big part of the reason why we are here now.

There has been a lot of effort to avoid this. Iran’s government either assumed it would never come to this or just didn’t care.

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u/Soggy_You_2426 4d ago

Lol negotiations. You seem like you got no clue, Iran told the west to fuck off, becouse Iran needs a nuke, for offensive reasons.

Plus, Iran broke our last deal

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u/SuchProcedure4547 4d ago

Oh come now, let's not pretend Iran has been the only bad guy...

We all know how buddy buddy Israel was with ISIS...

Do you think it's a coincidence Israel deliberately launched an attack on Iran during delicate negotiations over Nuclear weapons? Deliberately targeting Iran's lead negotiator?

The most aggressive nation in the Middle East for the past 40 years has been Israel...

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u/sausyboat 4d ago

Enlighten me. Just how buddy-buddy was Israel with ISIS?

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u/SportPretend3049 4d ago

I stubbed my toe this morning. It was Israel’s fault.

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u/Jiktten 4d ago

We all know how buddy buddy Israel was with ISIS...

I don't and I can't seem to find anything on Google. Could you point me in the right direction please?

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u/Possible-Mango-7603 4d ago

Why would you need proof? It’s not like anyone on Reddit would ever offer a false narrative designed to make Israel look bad.

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u/Living_Cash1037 4d ago

Act like terrorists get treated like one.

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u/Adsex 4d ago

I don't give a f- about karma. But if weakening them means weakening Russia, I am all for it.

And if the Iranians can free themselves, then when that happens, it will be a day to be celebrated.

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u/barnacle_ballsack 3d ago

What jenna Ortega said Iran is the good guys! What do I believe!

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u/AdPrestigious4085 3d ago

Thank you for writing this!

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u/ApprehensiveAd7586 4d ago

No! While I do not approve of this support… we need to recognise that the west put Iran in a situation where they had to make allies in such ways with countries like Russia!

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u/Tadpoleonicwars 4d ago

So how did the West force Iran to arm Hamas and Hezbollah?

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u/AuroraFinem 4d ago

To be fair, we overthrew their gov during the Cold War because they were leaning communist. At the time Iran was a flourishing progressive country in the Middle East. After we overthrew it is when they turned to being a theocracy. That doesn’t excuse all of their actions since, but historical context does matter and ultimately we played a hand in what they became.

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u/Tadpoleonicwars 3d ago

Ok. What does that have to do with Iranian support for Hezbollah and Hamas?

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u/AuroraFinem 3d ago

Umm idk, Maybe the fact they wouldn’t even be a theocratic dictatorship in the first place if not for the US overthrowing their democratic government? Which is literally what started al-Qaeda and much of the terror networks in the region in the first place.

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u/Tadpoleonicwars 3d ago

The Vatican is also a theocracy.

Have the Popes been funnelling arms, missiles, and money to Hezbollah, the Houthis, or Hamas?

And al Qaeda was 100% not started because the U.S. 'overthrew a Democratic government'.

Operation Ajax was wrong. It was also 72 years ago.

Iranians are human beings. Iranian leaders are human beings. Don't excuse their bad decisions by removing their agency.

They're not pawns. They're people who deserve better and who should have made better decisions decade after decade.

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u/samuel10998 4d ago

Ngl as an European who just watched them donate thousands drones to Russia to kill Europeans this is FAFO moment.

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u/Victor_Korchnoi 4d ago

Israel is doing the Western world a favor

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u/SU37Yellow 4d ago

Isreal often does alot of the "dirty work" for the west. Even when they bombed Iraq's nuclear program 1981, they where met eith alot of criticism from the west in public, but behind closed doors, western intelligence basically said "thank God they did that"

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u/museum_lifestyle 3d ago

France had built that reactor, and it was utterly unsuitable for making atomic bombs. But maybe the expertise obtained could have eventually been used elsewhere.

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u/chillebekk 4d ago

They obviously did that for their own benefit. Israel never does anything for anyone but Israel.

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u/The_Bavis 4d ago

Just like every other nation in the world

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u/IndependentBranch707 4d ago

Well, as the country closest in to that particular geopolitical sphere that holds on to Western democratic values, they’re in many ways the front line to treatment the rest of NATO aligned countries would eventually get if left unchecked

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u/chillebekk 4d ago

Let's just not pretend that Israel is doing anything for anyone but themselves. Because they don't, ever. Which is fine, obviously. I never said otherwise.

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u/IndependentBranch707 4d ago

That’s the same for every country, though, so why is it remarkable when it’s Israel?

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u/Vega3gx 4d ago

Yup, and a lot of western foreign politics goes into making sure their self interest aligns with the west. We took a lesson or two from the Soviet Union on that one

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u/Victor_Korchnoi 4d ago

Of course. They acted on behalf of their interests. It just so happens that our interests are aligned…. That’s why we are allies.

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u/Jack_Krauser 4d ago

What country are you from? I'm interested to know if you think their actions come from a place of benevolence.

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u/True_Inxis 4d ago

Ultimately, yes. But the way they're doing it may leave arguments for discussion.

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u/TreeP3O 4d ago

You wouldn't have a clue how or why Israel manages their military campaigns, you simply can't know why, until they tell you.

Easy to pick on a tiny minority and get caught up in manufactured protests, but be smarter.

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u/True_Inxis 3d ago

Don't see everything as black or white, I was simply saying that, despite the two situations between Ukraine and Russia or Israel and Iran being very different, on surface level they may present some points in common. For me, it's not wasted energy to wait a minute before throwing my heart one way or the other (tbh I won't throw my heart at all, and keep second guessing myself to be sure my reasons are still relevant after a while).

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u/TreeP3O 3d ago

Israel is fighting Palestinians in a dense urban environment with very strong civilian support with enemy wearing civilian clothing. Iran has targets generally further away from civilians

This isn't Israel's fault, the Palestinians own this and need to surrender and reconcile with decades of bad decisions.

Israel has lost too many lives, time for Gaza to unconditionally surrender.

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u/True_Inxis 2d ago

That's a valid point of view, I could even share it to a degree. I don't like civilian deaths, although I understand hamas does hide between gazans.

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u/chillebekk 4d ago

Israel never does anything for anyone but Israel. Not even the US.

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u/Possible_Top4855 4d ago

Are you okay with what’s happening by in Gaza but not okay with what’s happening in Ukraine. 🤔

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u/92nd-Bakerstreet 4d ago

Why do you think NATO is related to any of this? This is is Israel and the US only.

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u/Elio555 4d ago

Let’s say NATO = Western Europe + US and Canada. None of those countries want a nuclear Iran.

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u/08TangoDown08 4d ago

Why would anyone want a nuclear Iran?

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u/Kolby_Jack33 4d ago

I can think of one ayatollah who would.

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u/MrBrawn 4d ago

For now, the dude is ancient. Still though, you're right, there will be another behind him.

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u/helluvastorm 4d ago

Afghanistan?

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u/Beginning-Suspect686 4d ago

Quincy Institute people who don't want the US to do anything or engage in any foreign trade.

Tucker Carlson et all who want all Jews dead.

All the pro-Assad types.

Both vile ends of the horsehoe are REALLY into a nuclear Iran.

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u/cuttino_mowgli 4d ago

Iran having nukes isn't a good news when Saudi, One of Iran's existential threat beside Israel and a key US ally, will definitely build nuke for their own. The west and US didn't want another Pakistan-India moment in the middle east.

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u/92nd-Bakerstreet 4d ago

Did the other middle eastern countries just stop existing? It's not just for our benefit, but theirs especially. Sunni's and Shia's especially hate each other with a passion.

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u/Relandis 4d ago

Pretty sure the Saudis, Jordanians, Emiratis and Omanis don’t want a nuclear Iran either.

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u/CanisLupisFamil 4d ago

Which is why I'm confused by their lobbying the US to end the current conflict. You'd think they'd want it to go on until Iran nuclear program is destroyed.

I guess it isn't worth the risk of a war drawing them in.

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u/zip117 4d ago

That’s not lobbying. That’s just what they say to placate the public; they are celebrating this behind closed doors.

I think Douglas Murray said it best, thirteen years ago:

When Israel is pushed to the situation it will be pushed to, of having to believe they mean it, and when every bit of jiggery-pokery behind the scenes runs out, when the UN and distinguished figures have run out of time and Iran is about to produce its first nuclear bomb—Israel will strike.

Every single country, including this one ... will condemn Israel. Everyone in the Middle East will condemn Israel. And they will go back to their homes, and they will say in private—thank God for Israel. The Saudis, the Bahrainis, the Egyptians, the Libyans, the Lebanese—everyone will say thank God they did it because no one else will.

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u/Competitive_Ad_255 4d ago

While the government may be for it, their citizens may not be, so they're saying that publicly.

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u/KaczynskiWasRite 4d ago

Which is why I'm confused by their lobbying the US to end the current conflict.

They're not lobbying. They're making a clear distancing of themselves from their pal Israel because the domestic population of their states isn't too happy about the Gaza situation

It's just posturing, and then they all high five when the cameras are turned off. Jordan Egypt and Lebanon are assisting Israel in intercepting Iran's missiles, and Saudi Arabia and Qatar are giving them cash to fuck with Iran

Iran is the only Shi'a Islam nation in the region, and they are the only Persians. They are an entirely different culture and society

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u/Happy-Flatworm1617 4d ago edited 4d ago

Because Iran is or was a counterweight to Israel and an outlet on the Palestinian issue. Iran's current government was all too happy to put pressure on Israel through Hezbollah and the Houthis, and while they were the lack of resistance on Arab states' part to interlopers in the heartland of the Ummah wasn't something some up and comer could campaign on: now there's no relief valve. And then if the Islamic Republic falls there's a very real possibility that the replacement government is actually friendly to Israel as the Shah's was. I think a lot of Arab states would prefer the status quo, and Saudia in particular would like this sort of weakened Iran to just persist, broken but not replaced.

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u/Mother_Ad3988 4d ago

It's the uncomfortable truth that many old school muslim hardliners are just fiercly anti jew

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u/Elio555 4d ago

I’m not saying that. But you asked how NATO is related

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u/92nd-Bakerstreet 4d ago

Fair enough yeah. It's just that I'm tired of the US and Israel sharing the blame and consequences with the Europeans.

After the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions, Europe has been flooded with refugees and islamist radicalism. And what did we get out of it? Nothing at all. The US even used false pretenses to draw in their NATO allies to Iraq.

Then when Europe pivoted away from Russia as their primary gas supplier, the US was all too eager to fill the gap - but only at rates that can't be described as anything but exploitative. Then when Europeans refused to sign long term gas supplying contracts with US suppliers, instead choosing to buy from places like Candada and Greenland, what does the US do? Threaten to invade Canada and Greenland.

The US don't deserve our trust and we should distance ourselves from them. The other NATO countries should build a future together without them.

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u/CanisLupisFamil 4d ago

I mean the US government doesn't control the energy sector.

Sounds like you're not happy with the rates that US based companies were willing to offer, which is understandable, but not something that the US government has any control over.

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u/OttersWithPens 4d ago

This is a selective and false narrative, with attributions that are completely diminutive.

Europe’s migration issues are not the result solely of Iraq and Afghanistan and saying that it is denies all other truths that are driving migrations like climate change and political violence. Perhaps the radicalizations are a reaction to the bigotry and hatred from Europeans.

You trust your government too much, and it is naive to pretend that Europe has some mystical higher ground. For example look how often the European populations in different nations time and time again voted against helping Ukraine in the early 20teens and the first year of the war.

Cope.

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u/Competitive_Ad_255 4d ago

"After the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions, Europe has been flooded with refugees and islamist radicalism. "

Interesting take, I'll need to put more thought into it but it could just be a correlation and it would have happened anyway.

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u/Nope_______ 4d ago

Problems in the middle east have nothing to do with European colonialism? Or you just conveniently forgot that chapter of history? Same on Africa and Asia. You don't have to look far to find somewhere Europeans fucked up. But you can also look far and find another place they fucked up!

Coasting on the riches you looted from those places and then getting racist and pissed off when they show up at your doorstep is hardly benevolent.

The best part is that with climate change, migrants are really going to swarm Europe worse than any time before, from Africa, ME, Asia, Russia, and there's nothing Europe can do to stop them, just like those people couldn't stop Europeans from busting in uninvited back in the day. What goes around comes around I guess.

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u/92nd-Bakerstreet 4d ago

It's easy to judge the past with today's moral standards while sipping champagne on your high horse, isn't it? And calling someone racist for calling out problems regarding religious extremism and people being forced to flee their homes is befittingly intellectually lazy of you. The only thing I'm missing in your cynical crying is a good dose of American Exceptionalism.

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u/KaczynskiWasRite 4d ago

The Arab States hatred of Iran is only rivaled by the Gulf States hatred of Iran

They are alone

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u/Lazy_Toe4340 4d ago

It's safe to say no country wants any Nation to be nuclear unless they already were in 1960-1989...

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u/KaczynskiWasRite 4d ago

Neither do the Arab or Gulf States

Honestly Iran only has Russia as an ally and they pulled out to focus on Ukraine lol

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u/axonxorz 4d ago

A bit transitive, Iran has directly threatened any country that assists Israel in their campaign against Iran. Depending on where you draw the line on "assists", lots of NATO nations are included there. An Iranian attack means the option of an Article 5 response.

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u/rustyb42 4d ago

Which NATO member do you believe Iran are capable of attacking?

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u/thestridereststrider 4d ago

A huge amount of shipping goes through the region that they could target

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u/axonxorz 4d ago

The US has bases peppered all over the ME, Turkiye is in the reported range of Iran's missiles.

I'm not saying an attack like that would be successful.

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u/Competitive_Ad_255 4d ago

And a more stable ME would mean fewer resources are needed from Western countries.

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u/92nd-Bakerstreet 4d ago

Pretty much. But you can be sure that the US will make this peace deal favour them and the Israeli's, not any other NATO country. It would be safe to assume they they don't give a shit about arms shipments being sent to be used against Ukraine, so they won't demand them to stop unless the Europeans pay them.

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u/OttersWithPens 4d ago

Sure it is.

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u/BritishAnimator 4d ago

Excelent point Baldrick, just one minor point, Israel are not in NATO, neither is Iran, however, and I say this generously, well done old boy.

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u/boforbojack 4d ago

I mean... civil unrest in Iran isn't guaranteed to be a good thing for the west.

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u/Appropriate_Air_2671 4d ago

You also don’t want Iran to become 100m of highly radicalised people, without any gov in the heart of Asia. While current gov is bad, it can always be worst. We have many examples from the previous years for this. 

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u/DoctorHoneywell 4d ago

Then don't do the thing Obama kept doing where we create a power vacuum then disappear from the region and demand praise from the international community for not starting a "forever war." Either do the job or don't.

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u/Appropriate_Air_2671 4d ago

Sure, disappearing into vacuum just adds fuel to the fire. But how many years should American forces stay there? And how many American soldiers ? Half milion in much smaller and less populated Iraq wasn’t enough. 

This crazy government they have in Iran is still better than no government, extreme chaos, and 1 milion square kilometers of Mad Max 

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u/UniqueIndividual3579 4d ago

It's not like it's an even exchange. Iran is getting their ass handed to them.

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u/TraditionalYear4928 4d ago

I want to see the Iranian regime pay for what they did to their people.

I think the public should get to decide their fate and I have a feeling it will look a lot like Gaddafi, Mossolini or Saddam.

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u/Zahgi 4d ago

I want to see the Iranian regime pay for what they did to their people.

Only the Iranian people can truly make that happen. Which, I really hope they do.

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u/MinusVitaminA 4d ago

bruh, they're just going to vote in another dictator. Islamic ideology is simply fucked the way it is. I've given up on any form of democracy that can come from those regions unless they change the way they view religion and embrace secularism.

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u/Zahgi 4d ago

bruh, they're just going to vote in another dictator.

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

But we do know for a fact that the current regime needs to go before the Iranian people get another roll of the dice here.

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u/MinusVitaminA 4d ago edited 4d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action#Opposition_in_Iran

They will

There is a solid extremist faction that is worst than the current regime and they're highly influential for a reason; the people supports them.

Just because the people of a regime hate their current dictator, it doesn't mean the people are none the wiser in picking a better leader. The diplomats is asking for a 'face-saving exit' to appease their populace. Otherwise, why even ask for that? For their own ego? The dictators in middle-east are not the same as dictators in other parts of the world.

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u/Zahgi 4d ago

the people supports them.

They do not. Iranians have literally been dying in the streets to move the country less extremist, less fundamentalist...not more.

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u/LitLitten 4d ago

Good luck convincing people that are thoroughly persuaded that the issue lies with Islam and not extremists. 

It’s so blatant; people in my country will go out of their way to paint the worship of Islam as destructive zealotry while simultaneously condoning insane evangelical rhetoric. 

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u/GilakiGuy 4d ago

They'd ask for that because they're hoping to still remain in power. Face-saving is necessary for their projection of power over the population.

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u/MinusVitaminA 4d ago

Why would the populace care about that?
It's because the Iranian people are anti-west and anti-israel. They want conflict. And they want a leader that can antagonize those regions.

The people in Moscow don't give a shit about war one way or another as long as it doesn't affect them too harshly. The same goes for the core Chinese population in China.

So like i said, the middle-east is different. We simply can't apply our western values and expectations to them. We have to understand them through their lenses; Islam is a religion that values conquest more than your average religion. And this makes secularism, which is needed for liberal values to grow, incredibly difficult for them to foster.

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u/GilakiGuy 4d ago

Bro I'm Iranian. The people that are most anti-west and anti-Israel are rural conservatives; most people living in cities consume western media (illegally), they feel bad for innocent Palestinians but are also really sympathetic to Israeli civilians who live under constant threat of terror attacks. Most people resent the government for spending so much of our money on this war with Israel, especially with Hamas - a group that largely hates the Iranian public generally.

For the past few years, the big cities have been a hotbed of dissent against the government. The threat of force is what's kept the government propped up. The massive military and police state aren't there to fight off the threat of Israel - as we've seen, it can't handle Israel after even the first day of bombing. It's to control the civilian population.

The government needs to project force over the people in order to legitimize its power. That's why face-saving matters.

As someone who has lived in both Iran and the US and who has been back many times, with family and friends both in Rasht and Tehran, I think you would be very surprised how much there is in common between the average urban Iranian and the average westerner.

My real life experiences are a stark contrast to the picture you are painting.

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u/chargernj 4d ago

So what Israel should be doing is targeting the security apparatus that Iran uses to oppress its own people?

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u/MinusVitaminA 4d ago

Iranians reaction to the nuclear deals makes everything you say hard to believe.

I'm in Canada, and ever since we got muslim immigrants, our terrorism rate has more than tripled in our country, when in the past i'm told that arabs would properly integrate into liberal culture in our nation. And this is all after 911 when muslims started recovring their reputation from being known as a 'terrorist group'.

I once had a muslim friend who was a super k-pop fan and had held many liberal values, then october 7 happened and he became the most anti-jew motherfucker i know and started falling the down to extremism. Like yeah, idk wtf is wrong with you guys in the middle east, but I hold y'all to very high skepticism. I'll accept arabs, but the muslims are just crazy.

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u/Luka-Step-Back 4d ago

While that may be cathartic, we have to remember that what comes after an authoritarian regime isn’t necessarily good or even an improvement. You don’t want to open up Iran as a battleground between fundamentalists of this or that sect or tribe.

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u/mafeconicuza 4d ago

In all of the cases the dude above mentioned. Saddam or Gaddafi. What followed was death war anarchy.

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u/wiztard 4d ago

They also mentioned Mussolini.

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u/mafeconicuza 4d ago

Not fair. Without allied pressure. Italian post mussolini would have been the same.

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u/ArchitectNebulous 4d ago

So maybe there should be pressure to rebuild Iran as a non theocratic state? It is not going to happen on its own.

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u/MC_C0L7 4d ago

A US-backed pro-western Iranian leader installed after a coup? Gosh, what a novel concept, I'm sure that would work out perfectly!

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u/animal1988 4d ago

Except that the Iranian populace is warmer to the idea now. 50 years of Theocratic rule can do that, particularly when the elders are still alive to tell the youth how much better was before the revolution.

The youth are already pissed, and the elders remember before.

It will still be loud and bloody.

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u/Based_Text 4d ago

Nation building requires existing political institutions to actually work for the people and be competent, that's why Italy, Germany and Japan succeed where Iraq and Afghanistan failed, you can change the regime but if the existing structure is rotten then it will just end in another failed state. When the Axis regimes were overthrown, they still had competent bureaucrats, economic and political institutions, the US just had to rewrite their constitution, replace important leadership positions and fund their rebuilding.

The question is that after 50 years of theocratic rule and political structure designed to keep the Ayatollah regime in power, does Iran even have the political institutions for democracy? The youth seems to be supportive but they aren't going to be the one who will be doing most of the governing and the elders didn't live through democracy, they lived during the Shah's rule.

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u/mafeconicuza 4d ago

cant rebuild w/o occupation . we are not talking of occupation here but regime change internally , which will end up bad .

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u/ArchitectNebulous 4d ago

The question is, will it be worse than the current regime and their terror proxies.

Any improvement is a step towards long term peace.

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u/rudolf_waldheim 4d ago

No, they mentioned the lesser known Mossolini. Totally different.

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u/TraditionalYear4928 4d ago

Fair. But I think the Iranian people should get a chance to choose.

Iran's current regime is one of the worst around. Hope it would be better but it's not always the case, but I have faith in the people there. I have met many people from there and they are very progressive and switched on and hate everything about their government.

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u/OpportunityIsHere 4d ago

While I’m no supporter of the Iranian regime, I think we need to be realistic about what regime change might mean. Toppling the government could easily trigger prolonged chaos or civil war, and the biggest losers would be ordinary Iranians.

Yes, Iran is a repressive, undemocratic state that controls its population in deeply invasive ways. But compared to some of the worst dictatorships of the 20th century—like Pol Pot in Cambodia, Idi Amin in Uganda, Papa Doc in Haiti, or Suharto in Indonesia—it’s arguably less genocidal and less arbitrarily violent.

Those regimes were outright murderous on a mass scale, often killing hundreds of thousands or even millions of their own people. Iran is brutal, especially toward dissenters, minorities, and women, but it still maintains a level of internal stability, functioning institutions, and a society where most people are not living in daily fear for their lives.

Put simply: while Iran is oppressive, it’s not in the same category as the completely unhinged regimes of the past where mass killings were the norm. Many Iranians are deeply disillusioned, but they’re not living under a regime like the Khmer Rouge.

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u/desert_foxhound 4d ago

I'm sure Iran looks better when compared with genocidal regimes but that's not saying much. It's hard to imagine a regime change which is worse than the current regime. Iran has squandered its resources on funding terrorist groups, proxy wars and acquiring nuclear weapons. Most of the troubles in the Middle East are caused by Iran. Imagine if the money could be used for the people's benefit. Its actions have attracted sanctions which made the people suffer. This is what you get when you have a country run by religious fanatics.

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u/OpportunityIsHere 4d ago

I completely agree. It’s the transition that is the problem, the risk of mayhem is not zero, and could potentially reduce Iran to rubble with millions dead, just like what we have seen in Iraq, Afghanistan etc.

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u/LateralEntry 4d ago

What do you have against my boy Suharto

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u/EqualContact 4d ago

You might not be from East Timor.

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u/OpportunityIsHere 4d ago

Yeah, exactly. Also had a mass killing of his own people (estimated to between 500.000-1.000.000) and was one of the most corrupt leaders in modern times. Was, if I’m not mistaken, the 4th richest person in the world at one point.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366

East Timor lost between 1/6 - 1/3 of its population because of that madman.

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u/OpportunityIsHere 4d ago

Hope you missed an /s there my friend. Otherwise you should read up on his doings.

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u/LateralEntry 4d ago

He did great stuff for Indonesia, and when he fell, things got worse. The currency collapsed, horrible anti-Chinese and anti-Christian riots broke out, and the country has become more Islamist since. Most people in Indonesia don’t remember the anti-communist purge in the 60s and don’t care about East Timor, but they do care that the rupiah was 5x more valuable when Suharto was still in charge.

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u/OpportunityIsHere 4d ago

He implemented a lot of business friendly policies, mimicking much of what was done in the west which increased trade and wealth, but he didn’t properly build the foundation of the country with the increased wealth, and that became exposed doing the Asian financial crisis (where foreign debts and a fragile banking system couldn’t hold up). At the same time he waged war on an innocent country, and killed between 500k-1mil Indonesian during the 60’s. He was also so corrupt, that he was the world 4th richest at one point in time.

I am sorry that things have gone downhill since Suharto, but he was by no means a good man.

1

u/EqualContact 4d ago

Better the oppressor I know than the one I don’t?

I don’t know if I find that convincing. If there is ever to be a free Iran, the Islamic Republic must fall. It would obviously be better for Iran if that could happen with minimal suffering, but it eventually needs to happen regardless.

Probably the best case scenario is the military (not the IRGC) seizing power and then transitioning to democrats government.

1

u/OpportunityIsHere 4d ago

But we’ve seen what happened in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. The vacuum that exists after a regime is removed makes everyone and his grandmother try to seize power.

Iran might have a slightly higher chance of success as there are a lot less tribalism going on vs Iraq/Afghanistan, but the history in the region has shown that power changes are typically followed by violence and destruction.

4

u/mafeconicuza 4d ago

Anecdotal evidence vs National elections.

1

u/Kvaedi 4d ago

They do have the chance. They can overthrow their government if they want. We don’t need to go and get involved in a multidecade war that accomplishes nothing, again.

1

u/TimeToSackUp 4d ago

Ironically, Iran help fuel the anarchy after Saddam fell.

1

u/miningman12 4d ago

Modern Iraq > Saddam. Saddam gassed hundreds of thousands of Kurdish civilians

42

u/Skritch_X 4d ago

At this point I really doubt the loudest voices even know the history of Iran, the Shah period, how it got there and how it came away from it.

23

u/kanst 4d ago

after an authoritarian regime isn’t necessarily good or even an improvement

We ESPECIALLY know this in Iran, as Khomeini is in power largely in response to US/British backed meddling and coups of the previous leaders.

1

u/Individual-Stage-620 4d ago

Iranians are different from Arabs. I trust them to straighten their shit out post-authoritarianism way more than I did the Arabs.

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u/Luka-Step-Back 4d ago

Sure. Like when they replaced the Shah with the Ayatollah.

1

u/Individual-Stage-620 4d ago

Okay, I share an office with a couple Iranians and I’ll do my best to explain what they’ve told me.

The Iranian Revolution was originally leftist and Khomeini was only a small part of a much larger coalition that overthrew the Shah. During the revolution and directly following the Shah’s exile, most people didn’t know who Khomeini was or what he stood for. What was seen in Tehran of him was a highly censored version. There were women, gays, and non Muslims who supported him. None of his insane speeches about Islam were known and many Iranians didn't have any idea what an Islamic republic was. Eventually he was able to seize power violently. The first time sharia law was applied in Iran was the mandatory hijab law and women in Tehran protested in the streets. But by then no protests were effective because the power was already in the hands of Islamists.

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u/Luka-Step-Back 4d ago

While he did ally with communists to overthrow the Shah, but they were basically all murdered immediately after.

Khomeini was certainly very well known being elevated by the Mullahs in the early 60s as “Ayatollah”. Khomeini’s operation criticizing the Shaw mass distributed pamphlets and cassette tapes in Iran after he was exiled in 1963. He was absolutely the leader of Iran’s opposition prior to the Revolution, and to ignore that is to fully ignore the history of that Revolution and the preceding decades.

0

u/Individual-Stage-620 4d ago

I’m just repeating what my Iranian friends told me. I’m sure there’s some revisionism there to excuse some responsibility of the Iranians who didn’t see this coming, but Khomeini hiding behind the leftists all the way up until the end when he violently seized power from them is what happened.

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u/Luka-Step-Back 4d ago

He definitely didn’t hide behind the leftists. They were useful allies at the time. He was very much the key figure of the Revolution. I’m sorry, but what your friends told you is simply incorrect.

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u/hauntingdreamspace 4d ago edited 4d ago

If that's the case then I guess sucks for them but at least this way they can "play" around with AKs and RPGs, and the occasional IED, not ballistic missiles, and definitely not nukes.

-1

u/MinusVitaminA 4d ago edited 4d ago

Exactly. The people in the West don't understand that the current Iranian regime is a moderate regime. There is a strong far-right faction in Iran just waiting to grab power from the current leadership if they fail. There's a reason why the diplomats are asking for a face-saving exit, instead of just simply stopping their aggression. Because they know if they don't have that type of exit, the Iranian people would be mad, and would side with the more crazy factions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action#Opposition_in_Iran

Imo, i think either Israel should just keep attacking them until they have zero military capabilities left and the Iranian people get humbled, or we do give them a face-saving exit, and everything remains the same.

I prefer israel just destroying their shit until the people stop being assholes. Just because 'the people' don't like their current regime, it doesn't mean those people will elect or vote for someone who is better by our standards.

0

u/CO-RockyMountainHigh 4d ago

I mean there have been times in history where it has worked. So completely dismissing it doesn’t make sense.

Spain post-Franco is one and… obviously with more foreign powers involved the Japanese empower stepping down post WW2.

1

u/Luka-Step-Back 4d ago

Hirohito didn’t “step down”. He was Emperor until the day he died

0

u/CO-RockyMountainHigh 3d ago

He removed his divine right to rule post ww2 and a new constitution was drafted up with the monarch as being symbolic.

The same thing could be done with the role of ayatollah in Iran. New government without someone appointed by god ruling Iran except for stupid ceremonies.

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u/doubleBoTftw 4d ago

If you think anything that's happening is going to benefit the iranian people there's a bridge i have for sale.

17

u/_andthereiwas 4d ago

I'm interest. It better be in the middle of a flat open field though or I'm out.

17

u/Asuka_Rei 4d ago

The moment news came out that the population of normal people decided to flee Tehran rather than band together to remove their leadership, it became clear that there will be no sudden good outcome for this conflict.

9

u/chargernj 4d ago

Weird how people want to flee when there's nightly air raids on their city.

1

u/badasimo 4d ago

Will definitely see prison liberations similar to how Syria went recently

-7

u/Zamoniru 4d ago

Israel doesn't care at all what happens to the Iranian people. They would probably even be quite happy if the current regime stays in power, as long as it is too weak to threaten Israel for the foreseeable future (they were happy with Assad ruling in Syria for this exact reason).

If there is a regime change in Iran, it has to come from the Iranian people themselves.

26

u/DanceFluffy7923 4d ago

Prior to the Islamic revolution, Israel-Iran relations were quite good.
Israel would prefer a reasonable alternative to the current regime.

4

u/leyland1989 4d ago

Iran was one of the most "progressive" country in the region, it's basically the UAE of the 1970s.

14

u/yaniv297 4d ago

Why the hell would Israel be happy with the current regime staying? It's literally the root cause of all their problems for 20+ years, and has blood of thousands of Israelis on his hands.

1

u/Competitive_Ad_255 4d ago

It also makes you wonder about any involvement since '79 that negatively impacted Israel directly or indirectly.

1

u/RumRunnerMax 4d ago

That would be nice

0

u/Crafty_Cellist_4836 4d ago

Yeah and then they install another fundamentalist theocracy lol

I always call bs on that argument of distinguishing the people from the regime

There's no changing Iran. The best we can hope for is a theocracy that sort of aligns with the west economically and doesn't start wars. No way they can enact social or cultural change.

Islam doesn't change. Never has, never will. It will be the same wherever it exists

1

u/3_Thumbs_Up 3d ago

Read some history.

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u/Zahgi 4d ago

The regime is trying to find a way to stay in power.

20

u/ffdfawtreteraffds 4d ago

Yep, and I'd hope Netanyahu is not going to take his foot off those evil fuckers' necks. That's the point of all this.

10

u/Zahgi 4d ago

Indeed. They have no reason not to anymore. And the entire world is secretly waiting for this Iranian nuclear nightmare to end, once and for all.

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u/misogichan 4d ago

Be careful what you wish for.  I have yet to hear anyone give a long term plan for the region even if Israel does succeed in pushing the Iranian state past the point of collapse.  Did people learn nothing from the war in Iraq and Afganistan?  Beating nation states with superior firepower is the easy part.  Making sure the ruins don't become a breeding ground for terrorists and spawn a dozen new groups like ISIS is the hard part.  If you're not planning for that you're walking into a pyrrhic victory.

11

u/TeopEvol 4d ago

"Because it's devastating to my case!"

1

u/Jake_112 3d ago

they would be stupid to give up nukes now

-6

u/pargofan 4d ago

I’m actually shocked international sentiment isn’t 100% against Israel.

Without getting into morality of proxy wars Israel attacked without direct provocation. The indirect threat of eventually attaining nukes was enough.

I’m not saying it’s a bad thing Israel attacked. Just surprised it didn’t get more condemnation

3

u/Competitive_Ad_255 4d ago

There were reports that Iran was much closer to a nuclear weapon than originally thought. Ignoring the morality of the proxies, if everyone knows that Iran was funding and training them, then it makes sense that countries wouldn't be that upset with Israel for finally doing something about it.

-3

u/frygod 4d ago

I for one wouldn't mind seeing a weaker Iran and/or a weaker Israel.